[saint.panda]

I have to admit that I'm not entirely happy with my vintage pcdps anymore. They are too bulky to fit in my jacket and the lack of anti-shock is really annoying. Further, as a student I have to be cool (especially when you're studying something that is not necessarily the epitome of coolness) and a big Philips AZ 6831 or Sony D211 are not cool.
Coolness aside

, I'm looking for more portabilty and versatily which I hope to get from a mp3 player. Obvoiusly, the question is which one. Following some dap threads, the karma and ipod appear to be everyone's darlings and considering that christmas is drawing nearer, the ipod seems to be a fairly reasonable object of desire, (although an ipod would probably exceed the budget in a manifold way).

Why do I prefer the ipod over the karma by solely basing my opinions on threads?
Firstly, I don't really care about EQ-ing. I've never ever used eq on my slimx, nor the bass boost on my pcdps, I don't like the 120ohm headphone out on my home amp, I'm not a fan of foobar eq, etc. It seems that the ipod is a decently neutral dap and I guess that's a good thing for me. Further, the ipod looks so nice.

Hence, some questions:
-1.How scratch sensitive is the ipod
-2.How sturdy is the ipod and will it survive a freefall from my jacket
-3.How is the sound quality compared to a good pcdp (such as a Sony D311, 211, etc.) and other daps (without regarding the respective EQ capabilities). And how would you describe the ipod's sound signature
-4.Does the ipod benefit from a headphone amp
-5.Will there be a 5th gen anytime soon

Especially interested in the 3rd question.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

[stevesurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda I have to admit that I'm not entirely happy with my vintage pcdps anymore. They are too bulky to fit in my jacket and the lack of anti-shock is really annoying. Further, as a student I have to be cool (especially when you're studying something that is not necessarily the epitome of coolness) and a big Philips AZ 6831 or Sony D211 are not cool. Coolness aside , I'm looking for more portabilty and versatily which I hope to get from a mp3 player. Obvoiusly, the question is which one. Following some dap threads, the karma and ipod appear to be everyone's darlings and considering that christmas is drawing nearer, the ipod seems to be a fairly reasonable object of desire. Why do I prefer the ipod over the karma by solely basing my opinions on threads? Firstly, I don't really care about EQ-ing. I've never ever used eq on my slimx, nor the bass boost on my pcdps, I don't like the 120ohm headphone out on my home amp, I'm not a fan of foobar eq, etc. It seems that the ipod is a decently neutral dap and I guess that's a good thing for me. Further, the ipod looks so nice. Hence, some questions: -How scratch sensitive is the ipod -How sturdy is the ipod and will it survive a freefall from my jacket -How is the sound quality compared to a good pcdp (such as a Sony D311, 211, etc.) and other daps (without regarding the respective EQ capabilities). And how would you describe its sound signature -Does the ipod benefit from a headphone amp -Will there be a 5th gen anytime soon Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks

Hey Panda - as the owner of a few iPods (1-3G and 2-Minis), I'll try to answer.

-The iPod 4G and 3G's are very prone to scratches, hence an entire scratch treatment industry and thousands of iPod cases. The mini is far less prone to scratches. The 4G's have had headphone jack isolation issues; I recommend a 3G until a 5G comes out. Also make sure your 4G or Mini does not have the audio defect where HD noise is audible (phew!)

-The iPods are sturdy enough to freefall from my jacket (I'm 5'8) to a carpeted floor, when equipped with a hard case like the vaja or matias armor but nothing more extreme than that. Recommended durable mini cases are the matias armor and Agent18.

-The sound quality is definitely better than the Sony units but IMHO not as good as iRiver. The built-in EQ is terrible. To get a line out you you need a series of facockta adapters SIK or pocketdock. Although not extremely accurate, iPods are fun and I love using my minis with my Senn HD595.

-There are many posts showing the benefits of iPods with good cans and a headphone amp. I myself will eventually buy a Supermacro or SR-71 for the HD595. Otherwise, the mini or iPod's amp will drive e2s's, e3s's and MDR-EX71s nicely.

-Considering the 4G just came out this year and it seems that Apple is milking the 4Gs design to death (U2, Photo) a 5G should be out mid (?) next year (i guess). Who knows about a new Mini as this is very dependant on microdrive availability.

Good luck!

 

[blessingx]

The iPods EQ deserves its much hated rep, but the 4G version is much better in this department. Great? Not by a long shot, but much better than 1G-3Gs.

Buy a Sik or PocketDock and an amp helps greatly (with the right headphones). I used a 1G thru the headphone out with a few amps (and volume at 100%) and it did the same, though at the time I had phones that benefited far less by an amp.

I think either the iPod or Karma makes a very nice portable/transportable (with amp) setup.

 

[Coalescent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda Hence, some questions: -How scratch sensitive is the ipod -How sturdy is the ipod and will it survive a freefall from my jacket -How is the sound quality compared to a good pcdp (such as a Sony D311, 211, etc.) and other daps (without regarding the respective EQ capabilities). And how would you describe its sound signature -Does the ipod benefit from a headphone amp -Will there be a 5th gen anytime soon Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks

1,2. The 4G iPod is very scratch sensitive. I bought an evo2 skin and it protects it nicely, but if you're just going to run around with the iPod bare, be prepared for some scratches. Mine hasn't fallen yet (phew!)

3. I own the iRiver slimX 550, and I like the SQ of the iPod better, personally, with Koss Portapro2s, HD590s, DT770/80s. However...

4. VERY MUCH SO. Upgrading to a SiK DIN line-out to a JMT PIMETA amp, the SQ is amazing. A giant improvement over both the headphone out and the iRiver headphone out.

FWIW, my iPod doesn't have the "noise" issue; I thought that was only something that effected the first batch of 4G iPods?

Just my 2 cents,

-Chad

 

[crimsonadam]

From my impressions, it doesn't seem like the IPod is the best value out there. They are probably a good, and if money were no object, why not get a couple. But since money is probably an object, there are probably more cost effective and value oriented options out there.

In particular it seems that the lack of support for OGG and FLAC is a drawback.

If there are no plans to upgrade any time soon, i would suggest going for a player that can play as many types of files as possible.

On the other hand if you're wedded to ITunes, then that limits your options.

I bought myself a Dell DJ, because i'm very very under-employed, and i'm pleased with it, and it seems to offer as much as the IPod (it'll take more than an IPod to make me hip), but the lack of being able to play OGG and FLAC kind of makes me say "nuts."

 

[stevesurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonadam On the other hand if you're wedded to ITunes, then that limits your options.

Oh yes - I forgot to mention that IMHO iTunes is a real reason to get an iPod:
-Dynamically updating Smart Playlists that can link to a good deal of criteria, including other smart playlists
-Multiple file edit for all criteria, including EQ, Comments, Genre, Artist, Album
-Easy burn from playlist to CD
-Simple search by selected field
-Field Chooser
-Play while Importing
-Error Correction
-Rip via AAC, Apple lossless, MP3 through 320 kBps

...yeah just get the iPod (or Mini)

 

[sygyzy]

I ended up with the iPod because despite it's shortcommings, it is the best player all around.

Don't be fooled by the Apple fanbois that say the iPod is perfect. I find new bugs and defects and nuiances for it each day. Is it enough to change players? No, I am pretty tolerant.

Problems:

1. Discharges battery if you leave it plugged into a firewire port while the PC is off.
2. Newest iTunes will not allow you to transfer music from iPod to PC. Yes you can do it using other methods, but why should you have to go out of your way to keep YOUR music.
3. If you turn off your iPod, when you turn it on, it's paused.
4. Scratches
5. Most cases don't come with wheel protection so you have to spend *more* money to get a sticker to protect it.
6. Headphone static problem
7. Random freezes.
8. Random disconnects from system, even though you never unplugged it.
9. Random reboots.
10. Random issues where it is not detected as a device. You have to do a reset.
11. When installing on a new system, it asks if you need to set it up (duh). When you say 'yes", it proceeds to format your iPod.
12. Unless you are careful, syncing with iTunes can be disasterous.

I use it with Anapod because I hate iTunes so much. Like I said, I am pretty tolerant of this stuff. It's not enough to get me to return it. But don't go into this thinking the player is perfect. Go read iPodLounge and you'll see all of my problems have been replicated by many many other users.

 

[stymie miasma]

Some cool thoughts in this thread! Thanks guys!

I have a question, which hopefully will be of benefit to saint panda. For a DAP, it seems the iPod has the best compromise of features for my intended uses. Like others, I have been scared off by the 4G audio problems and have been considering the 3G instead. Is anyone able to give me a few pros and cons regarding the 3G versus the 4G, that aren't readily apparent by simply comparing specs?

Cheers!

 

[ixeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonadam From my impressions, it doesn't seem like the IPod is the best value out there.

imo they are of extreme value, ipods currently hold the highest resale value of any daps out there. check ebay. it doesnt depreciate as much as other daps, so its a worthwhile investment.

 

[philodox]

No... saint panda... don't stray to the dark side... fight it with all your power!

Seriously though... you should look at that iPod killer thread. If I was in your position I would get the Gmini XS200.

 

[crimsonadam]

I suppose that if you were looking for investment value, the IPod is the way to go. But i don't think that you should be looking toward DAPs as investments, go for gold.

I do think that for immediate bang for the buck the IPod doesn't rank significantly higher than any of the other mainstream DAPs.

 

[neueziel]

Nooo come to the iRiver side...the H320 looks sooo cool. Do you wanna be like everyone else and have an iPod? You should go out and try to listen to them both if possible and then decide what you like.

Here are some benefits:
-Better battery life.
-More file format support
-Sexy faux carbon fibre look
-A line out even if its not real it's better then paying however much for that adaptor.


Ya so get an iRiver lol even if I don't sound as convincing as the rest.

 

[Wodgy]

Do any of the hard drive iRivers support any lossless formats yet? This seems like a big advantage for the iPod and Karma at the moment.

 

[kugino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sygyzy I ended up with the iPod because despite it's shortcommings, it is the best player all around. Don't be fooled by the Apple fanbois that say the iPod is perfect. I find new bugs and defects and nuiances for it each day. Is it enough to change players? No, I am pretty tolerant. Problems: 1. Discharges battery if you leave it plugged into a firewire port while the PC is off. 2. Newest iTunes will not allow you to transfer music from iPod to PC. Yes you can do it using other methods, but why should you have to go out of your way to keep YOUR music. 3. If you turn off your iPod, when you turn it on, it's paused. 4. Scratches 5. Most cases don't come with wheel protection so you have to spend *more* money to get a sticker to protect it. 6. Headphone static problem 7. Random freezes. 8. Random disconnects from system, even though you never unplugged it. 9. Random reboots. 10. Random issues where it is not detected as a device. You have to do a reset. 11. When installing on a new system, it asks if you need to set it up (duh). When you say 'yes", it proceeds to format your iPod. 12. Unless you are careful, syncing with iTunes can be disasterous. I use it with Anapod because I hate iTunes so much. Like I said, I am pretty tolerant of this stuff. It's not enough to get me to return it. But don't go into this thinking the player is perfect. Go read iPodLounge and you'll see all of my problems have been replicated by many many other users.

i think sygyzy did a good job of numbering the shortcomings...mind you, however, that a large fraction of them are general to all hard-drive players. when you say something "randomly" did this or that, it can be said about almost any player out there.

but, i do agree that the iPod has a number of problems...i really hate no. 1 above...and i also hate the lack of gapless playback. plus, there's also that thing about being uncool because everyone else has it...how ironic. i'm a fanboi of Macs...and usually call M$ "the dark side." but i agree that one reason NOT to get an iPod is b/c so many people have them...i, for one, like having 1.8% of the computer marketshare - no viruses, napoleon bonaparte complex, etc...but w/iPods being so popular, i find myself HIDING my ipod so no one knows what i'm listening to. go figure.

just get it over with...jump on the ipod bandwagon...you know you're going to anyway. and then you can join all of us in complaining that the ipod doesn't do this or that...

 

[raisin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kugino ...but w/iPods being so popular, i find myself HIDING my ipod so no one knows what i'm listening to. go figure.

That's so funny, I thought I was the only one hiding my ipod!