[jonathanwb]

My Audient iD22 has balanced TRS outputs and has a dynamic range of 120dB. Since I've decided to use a separate HP amp with it I have the option of buying a fully balanced amp and new cable for my Sennheiser HD6xx's. Does anyone feel this would be worth it?

 

[PurpleAngel]

For audio production (creating, mixing editing, etc), I'm not really seeing a reason for getting another headphone amplifier.

 

[jonathanwb]

For audio production (creating, mixing editing, etc), I'm not really seeing a reason for getting another headphone amplifier.

Well, this Audient HP amp is known for not driving low impedance headphones very well and in addition to my Senns, I plan on buying some lower impedance Planar HPs soon.

 

[haasaaroni]

I’ve heard that 6__ series Sennheisers like to be run balanced, but have no personal experience with it. That will mostly depend on the amp and the source (quality of the recording, DAC, etc). In my experience they do amazingly on tubes, especially OTL, with a high output impedance. Low impedance planars on the other hand do best with high current desktop amps with a near-zero output impedance. They’re kinda two different routes. That being said, a nice balanced desktop amp will probably help the 6XX out in clarity, but it won’t “wow” you like a DarkVoice or xDuoo TA-26 will.

 

[PurpleAngel]

To me, audio production (assuming why you use the ID22) is better using boring sounding headphones, easier to analyze the sound.
So not much voltage needed to using the HD6XX for boring sound.
But for audio enjoyment, I would get a tube headphone amplifier, to bring out the 300-Ohm HD6XX to a more fuller sound

 

[tomb]

There are two primary features for going balanced, especially with 300 ohm Senns:
1. XLR and balanced connections are superior for grounding. You gain several dB in noise advantage with balanced connections.
2. The voltage gradient is doubled with balanced amplifier drives (also the slew rate). This overcomes the solid-state limitations of most headphone amplifiers having too little of a voltage swing. (It's why so many people recommend tube amps for Senns, but they really don't know why.) Tube amplifiers, with their typical plate voltages of 200V-300V, have no lack of voltage swing. This is very advantageous with high-impedances, because power is pre-disposed to the voltage component of the power vector. Balanced drives on solid-state equipment overcome the lack of voltage swing. Most tube amps don't need that, but are benefited by the grounding advantages in the wiring and connectors.

 

[jonathanwb]

To me, audio production (assuming why you use the ID22) is better using boring sounding headphones, easier to analyze the sound.
So not much voltage needed to using the HD6XX for boring sound.
But for audio enjoyment, I would get a tube headphone amplifier, to bring out the 300-Ohm HD6XX to a more fuller sound

Thanks... I use EQ with the Senns (specifically Morphit) to correct the upper midrange 3k bump that they have. It also gives them more sub bass and clarity. Commercial releases sound much better with this correction too. Of course, I turn it off when rendering. That's my method.

 

[jonathanwb]

There are two primary features for going balanced, especially with 300 ohm Senns:
1. XLR and balanced connections are superior for grounding. You gain several dB in noise advantage with balanced connections.
2. The voltage gradient is doubled with balanced amplifier drives (also the slew rate). This overcomes the solid-state limitations of most headphone amplifiers having too little of a voltage swing. (It's why so many people recommend tube amps for Senns, but they really don't know why.) Tube amplifiers, with their typical plate voltages of 200V-300V, have no lack of voltage swing. This is very advantageous with high-impedances, because power is pre-disposed to the voltage component of the power vector. Balanced drives on solid-state equipment overcome the lack of voltage swing. Most tube amps don't need that, but are benefited by the grounding advantages in the wiring and connectors.

Thanks for that... I can run extremely short cabling between the iD22 and the HP amp so I probably won't gain too much in the EMI or grounding dept. However, the iD22 does have balanced TRS outs so it sounds like you're saying I'd gain some noise and voltage swing advantages by going "balanced". Would that be audible?

Earlier before I posted this thread. I bought a Topping L30 II just to see what advantages I'd hear over the Audient. Besides loudness, I can hear better resolution and imaging with the Senns. It's a keeper. IYO, would I gain any audible difference in going with the balanced L50 and balanced cable? Obviously, I'm keeping costs down but I'm open to getting even better results if possible.

 

[tomb]

Yes, I think going to balanced cables and balanced drive amplification (fully differential) will be an audible difference with your Senns, all other things being equal.

BTW, the grounding superiority is in non-connected cabling from the headphone drivers to an XLR connector (IOW, not using a common ground between headphone drivers). It's an advantage, irrespective of cable length and resulting resistance increase and/or voltage drop.

 

[jonathanwb]

Ok then, thanks for your help. Just found out the Topping L50 is not a "fully balanced" headphone amp on the output side of things. I'll have to research this further.

 

[pbui44]

The Topping A90 is fully balanced with the XLR/4.4mm output, but the Topping A30 Pro is not fully balanced, even with the balanced outputs. Just a reference for the line on both sides with both amps.

Also, the iFi Zen Can Signature 6XX is fully balanced and has XSpace, “6XX” (more tonality and bass), and both EQs combined options for just listening:

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-tFbrhxjt3Qu/p_246ZCS6XX/iFi-Audio-Zen-Can-Signature-6XX.html

 

[tomb]

Actually, the term should be Fully Differential, not Balanced. In the pro audio world, a device is fully balanced if balanced connections are available on the inputs and outputs.

This can be confusing, even purposefully misleading, where some mfrs try to claim "fully balanced," knowing that most consumer audio customers desire Fully Differential circuitry, instead. Indeed, the benefits of Fully Differential circuitry result in better performance, whether the connections are balanced or not.

 

[HiFiWar]

My Audient iD22 has balanced TRS outputs and has a dynamic range of 120dB. Since I've decided to use a separate HP amp with it I have the option of buying a fully balanced amp and new cable for my Sennheiser HD6xx's. Does anyone feel this would be worth it?

Sure, balanced is fun. It also adds 5 Horsepower. I kid, but it will make your headphones easier to drive and that will likely give you a perceived better sound. Some headphones really work well with balanced connections/cables, so give it a shot.