[thomaskong78]

It's a general question.

My Line Magnetic 508 amp use pair of 6sn7 and one 6sl7.

I used to use one Mullan Ecc35 for two years.
But 3 weeks ago RCA 5691 which give more details and deep based upon replaced it.

 

[thomaskong78]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raytheon-JAN-CRP-6SN7GT-VT-231-Vacuum-Tubes-1944-Balanced-Matched-on-Hickok/392787627010?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I am listening to Jazz music including " I left my hear in San Francisco" through Raytheon vt231 that cost me 65$ from Ebay auction.

I had lived in Berkeley hill overlooking Golden Gate bridge from 1984 to 1987.

This tube does not sound pure as Syl,TS, RCA vt231 with some lively edge.

But Jazz music sound more realistic through this Raytheon tube.

It is really fun to go through nice 6sn7 tubes.

Although 1578 give nice bass and soundstage, but it sound boring with Jazz vocal music due to closed in treble.

 

[thomaskong78]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-MELZ-6N8S-6SN7-Metal-Base-Tubes/264601117458?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I got delivery of this 68ns Melz tube made in 1953 about 2 hours ago.

It took six weeks of wait from Ukraine.

But it is worth the wait.

This is the most exciting 6sn7 tube that I had tried in my Line Magnetic 508 amp.

it sounds very dynamic with excellent details, wide and deep soundstage.

Compared with famed 1578 Melz ( I have two pairs made in 80 and one pair made in 83), 1578 give slightly more bass slam, even wider and deeper soundstage.

While 1578 has clean treble, it sound rather closed in and bass heavy, but this 68ns Melz tube made in 1953 give more lively treble and more details although its treble has slightly hard edge compared with 1578.

I am playing old rock. It seems that they are playing in front of me.

This is a steal at 65$ including shipping for pair which cost one quarter of 1578.

I place an order of two more pairs of this.

Thomas

 

[thomaskong78]

I had gone through most of famous 6n7 except Telefuken and Sylvania wgt metal base ( I have Syl wgt brown base).

Now I am getting ideas of the pros and cons of each tube.

No tube is perfect.

1578 has rather closed in treble although its treble is pure and clean.

TS has no bass slam compared with Kenrad vr231 and Russian tubes.

So far my overall favorite is 6n8s made in 1953.

I do not claim that 6n8s sound better than 1578 or TS bgrp.


This 6n8s made in 53 goes midway between 1578 and TS.

Thus I enjoy this tube more than either 1578 or TS.


I placed just one more of 6sn7 tube.

Strong Matched Pair National Union 6SN7GT Black Glass Tubes Same 1951 Date
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Strong-Mat...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

It could be rebranded TS bgrp or maybe not.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/

This will be my last order of 6sn7 (now I have around 100 6sn7 tubes).

I expect to get this tube this coming Friday.

I will finish shootout of 6sn7 tubes by this weekend.

 

[thomaskong78]

Yesterday I got delivery of quad Sylvania vt231 which I paid only 175$ for four tubes.

I am using Sylvania vt231 with Schitt Freya.

Both pairs sound nice with pretty good bass, but one pair give slightly more air and sparkle than the other pair.

I had experienced similar things with Raytheon vt231.

Three pairs of RT vt231 sound different from each other,

One sounds lively, the other one sounds neutral, the third one in the middle.

 

[Guidostrunk]

Give the Brimar CV1988 a chance if you find a good deal. I've rolled them all and the Brimar was the best of the bunch to my ears. There's also the ecc32 but you'll blow a gasket when you see what they cost. Lol

Cheers

 

[thomaskong78]

Give the Brimar CV1988 a chance if you find a good deal. I've rolled them all and the Brimar was the best of the bunch to my ears. There's also the ecc32 but you'll blow a gasket when you see what they cost. Lol

Cheers

If I can get pair of it under 300$, then I will include it in the shootout.

 

[thomaskong78]

Third Shootout

1. National Union Black glass.

It was heard that National union did not make tube themselves but rebranded other tubes.

NU bg looks similar to either Kenrad bg or Tungsol bg.

its sounds similar to KR bg but with slightly less slam but slightly more treble extension.

i paid 120$ for this tube, It is not excellent value but worth its price overall.


2. Russian 6n8s metal base Melz made in 53

Most people talk about 1578 Melz.

But this one sounds nice with excellent bass, nice details, wide and deep soundstage.

Overall this give best performance for the cost (65$ per pair compared with 250$ per pair of 1578).

1578 sounds slightly more refined and dynamic while 6n8s made in 53 give slightly more detailed.

I had ordered four more pairs.


3. Amperex GTB

I had enjoyed Amperex 12Au7 tubes with neutral and round midrange.

Amperex may have house sound.

This Amperex gtb tube also sound round and refined midrange similar to RCA gray bottle.

It is a nice tube with Jazz.


4. CBS hytron gtb

This one sound lively with decent details and dynamics.

But compared with excellent vt231's this tube is one notch below in details and refinement.

I would rather buy vt231's or Russian tubes than this.


5. RCA clear bottle made in 56

I paid only 22$ for pair of this.

But it was very good value for the cost.

Sometimes you can get a hit from Ebay dealer.

It sounds similar to RCA gray bottle but with more transparency.

6. Russian 6n8s black base made in 78

I paid 46$ for quad.

But it was excellent with nice bass, details, dynamics, wide and deep soundstage.

It lacks refinement compared with 1578.

I like this tube overall.


Now I had gone through 18 different tubes.

My conclusion is all the Russian tubes give excellent bass, dynamics, wide and deep soundstage.

The best tube to me is 1578 Melz made in 1980 with explosive dynamics, widest and deepest soundstage,clean details.

TS bgrp has excellent transparency, details and speed but falls short of 1578 in dynamics and soundstage widtth.

TS bgrp sounds close to Sylvania vt 231 but more than three times of price.



My favorite is 1578 Melz, 6n8s metal base, Sylvania vt231, Kenrad vt 231, Raythedon Vt231.

RCA vt231 is also good with round and rush sound.

Pair of 6n8s metal base made in 50's can be had under 100$ from Ebay, thus they are best value.

Details

Transparen

Speed

Tonality

Treble Ex

Treble Cl

Mi Dyn

Mac Dyn

S. Depth

S. width

Net cost

Total Sc

TS bgrp

9.5​

9.5​

10​

9​

9.5​

10​

9​

8​

9.5​

9​

575​

93​

RCA vt231

9​

9​

8.5​

9.5​

9.5​

9​

8.5​

9​

8.5​

10​

89​

90.5​

KR vt231

9​

9​

9​

10​

8.5​

9​

9​

10​

9​

9​

83​

91.5​

RT vt231

9​

9​

9​

9​

9​

8.5​

9​

9.5​

9​

9​

65​

90​

Syl vt

10​

10​

9.5​

8​

10​

10​

9.5​

7.5​

9​

9​

100​

92.5​

Bad boy

8​

7.5​

8.5​

9​

7.5​

8.5​

8.5​

9​

8.5​

9​

215​

84​

1578​

8.5​

8.5​

9​

9​

8​

9.5​

9.5​

10.5​

10​

10.5​

250​

94​

S 181z

8​

8.5​

8​

9​

8.5​

9​

8.5​

8​

9​

8.5​

120​

85​

RCA gr

8​

7.5​

8​

9​

7.5​

8​

8.5​

9.5​

9​

10​

105​

84.5​

Syl Tall

8.5​

8​

8.5​

8​

8​

8​

8​

9​

8​

8.5​

108​

82.5​

Syl Wgt

9​

9​

9​

9​

9​

8.5​

9​

8​

8.5​

8.5​

45​

87.5​

Ts tall

9​

9​

9​

8.5​

9​

9​

8.5​

8.5​

8.5​

8.5​

54​

87.5​

Amperex

8.5​

8​

8.5​

9.5​

8.5​

9​

8.5​

9​

9​

9​

76​

88​

Rca56

9​

9​

9​

9​

9​

8.5​

8.5​

8​

8​

9​

22​

87​

Cbshy

9​

8​

9.5​

8.5​

9​

8​

8.5​

9​

8.5​

8.5​

65​

86.5​

6n8s(78)

8.5​

9​

8.5​

9​

8.5​

8.5​

9​

9​

9​

9.5​

23​

88.5​

6n8s(53)

9​

9​

9​

9​

9.5​

9​

9​

10​

9​

9.5​

65​

92​

NU bg

9​

9​

9​

9.5​

9​

9​

9​

8.5​

8.5​

9​

120​

89.5​

 

[highstream]

Thanks for your this comparison! What do you mean by (or criteria for) tonality?

 

[thomaskong78]

Thanks for your this comparison! What do you mean by (or criteria for) tonality?

I mean balance of treble, mid and bass by tonality.

 

[highstream]

I mean balance of treble, mid and bass by tonality.

That's really something else called tonal balance. The reason I asked is that most people with experience, including myself, can identify an overall tonality that they like, assuming I'm using the right word. Broadly speaking, these days that falls into the "neutral" and warm camps, with the latter being a continuum from a bit to euphonic (my preference is a modest degree, far short of lush or pleasant, which I find boring). Another way of looking at that, respectively, is some people listen primarily to the hardware first ("audiophile effects") and some to the music, with the other elements mostly in the background of their awareness. Play neutral to someone who likes some degree of warmth (or a bit of sweetness), and they are soon unhappy, and of course vice versa. Btw, therein lies the fallacy of a scoring system that rates each item separately and then adds them up (a reviewer for TNT-Audio does this too). That approach may be good for the scorer because they know their tonal base point, but for others it's meaningless without knowing where the scorer is coming from. That's because the method assumes all factors are equal and uncorrelated, independent of each other. My repeated experience is the latter is not true, but that some of the other factors are correlated with whichever tonality one chooses, at least at the broad price range most of us are dealing with. For example, in my experience neutral typically comes with a greater sense of clarity, details, transparency and probably a few other variables, including a sense of PRAT, than some degree of warmth does. So when someone speaks of one tube having more of one characteristic than another, without a sense of what approach they prefer it's often hard to decipher how that applies to the reader. Hence, my question, which you haven't didn't answer.

There are of course other factors that can be determining for different listeners: sense of presence vs. more laid back (which row) is one, and preferring the sense that musicians are in the room with them vs. being in the musician's room or hall is another. Each of these leads to a different evaluation and description of equipment, including tubes. But I do believe that for most what I've called tone is the starting point.

 

[Outboardfun]

I have had Line Magnetic 508 int amp for 2 years which use pair of 6sn7.

But recently I got Schitt Freya pre to tame the hot sound of Raal Sr1a headphone.

Since Freya use quad 6sn7 tubes.

I had got good collection of Nos 6sn7 tubes.


I received Tungsol Black grass round plate ans Raytheon Vt231 tubes today.


I had done shootout between TS BGRP, RCA vt231, KR vt231, Syl vt231, Raytheon vt 231 and Bad boy


I played


Eva Cassidy's 'Autumn Leaves"


"Post card blues " by Cowboy Junkies


For classical orchestra, "Trittico" directed by Fennel.


"Still harry after all these years" will be for fusion jazz


RCA5691, Psavne Acme 300B, Psavne Acme 805 are also being used in Line Magnetic 508 amplifier.

Speaker is Lansche 4.1 with plasma tweeter.

Digital source is Dave and HMS fed by ripped CD stored in ssd drive of Cocktail audio x30.


1. TS BGRP gave most transparent almost see through sound. But it's tonal balance is slightly skewed to treble, so it could sound hot in bright system.


It sound fast but the bass falls way short of the standard set by KR vt231 even behind Rca or Raytheon.


Some people are of the opinion that this one is holy grail of 6sn7 tubes doing everything well .


But it's bass is disappointing.


2. RCA vt231 is kind of all around player. Compared with TS bgrp, its sound is slightly warmer with lush tone but with enough sparkle and air.


It is also very transparent just short of TS.


Its bass is also better than TS.


I paid only 1/5 price of TS on RCA vt231.


But RCA is as almost as good as TS.


Thus TS bgrp is over priced due to hype and RCA is a good deal.


if you can find Nos RCA vt 231 under 1505, grab it.


I had bought 3 pairs of RCA vt 231 with average price of 130$.


3. Kenrad vt231 has best bass among 6sn7 tubes.


With KR in it, I got the impression that I do not need subwoofer to get deep bass.


It also sound sweet. Thus its tonal balance is kind of neutral.


It is pretty transparent just short of TS.


4. Raytheon vt 231.


I could grab one RT vt231 at 80$.


But it was steal for the performance.


Its sound is halfway between RCA and KR.


it give better bass than TS and pretty good speed with transparency close to TS.



I wish to emphasize again the TS bgrp is overpriced due to hype.


I ordered one more RT vt231 at 70$ today.



5. Sylvania vt 231


Its sound is very similar to TS.


It has spooky details and transparency very close to TS.


But it's bass is too tight but not with enough force.


I also have three pairs of Syl vt 231 at average price of 110$ for pair.


This one work better in Freya pre in front of headphone amplifiers rather than 2 channel system.



6. Bad boy ( Sylvania GT 3 holes made in 1952 or 1953)


This one has good tonal balance (slightly bass heavy) which will work well with bright system.


But it falls short of above vt231 tubes in tranparency with limited treble extension.


Its bass is full but not at the same level as KR but close to RCA or RT.



To conclude, this one is not at the same level as five vt231 tubes in detail and transparency.


It is overpriced due to hype.


But if your system is on the bright side, bad boy may work.


I think it is foolish to pay more than 150$ on it.

Did you try the Sylvania 6SN7W short

 

[highstream]

(deleted)

 

[bradboston]

I just got the melz 6N8S from 54 metal base. How long do these need to burn in? Raytheon 6SN7WGT was my favorite before , soundstage is amazing but upper midrange is a little harsh. Massed strings sound somewhat strident. Will these burn in? How long should i let a NOS 6SN7 burn in before i judge?

Brad