SF Bay Area Meet in Marin -- Saturday, October 14, 2006

[humanflyz]

I guess I'll start the impressions thread by first thanking Grahame for hosting the event, and also for the delicious chips and dips

It was nice meeting everyone and putting names to faces. Now onto the things that impressed me today:

1) Stax Omega 2: I really liked these headphones; they have IMO the bigggest soundstage in a headphone other than the K1000s. I would not hesistate to build an O2 system if not for the fact that I just can't get them to fit right. I tried rotating the cups and the cushions every way, but just never found a good fit.
2) Orpheus: Between the Orpheus and the O2, I'd say it's a toss up when both are amped out of an ES-1. I could easily live with both. Compared to the O2, the Orpheus had a brighter tonality and a more upfront presentation. It's lively and very fluid. But, I was not really blown away so to speak. On some tracks I actually preferred my K1000s because of its very airy nature. But I have no problem calling the Orpheus the best headphone ever made, because it does give you the best headphone presentation there is, whereas the K1000s give you more of a speaker-like presentation.
3) Grado PS-1: Along with the HP series, the PS-1 is my favorite Grado. I think of it as the ultimate RS-1 experience: it is extremely fun, has deep, controlled, and really powerful bass while not masking the mids and the highs. Whereas the RS-1s can sometimes get a little shouty, the PS-1s preserve the excitement of the RS-1s and take the whole refinement thing up to another level. I would love to own a pair some day if I can.
4) EMM Labs CDSD and DCC2 stack: This is by far, without a doubt, the single most impressive component in the entire meet to me. Digital has never sounded any better. I was having major, major, major gear lust when I heard this combo. It is digital to die for. Undoubtedly the best source I have ever heard. I would probably sell a kidney if it means that I can afford this combo. Listening to SACDs via direct DSD is amazing on this combo, and it is extremely revealing and transparent, which appeals to the resolution freak in me. I'm totally envious of neilvg for possessing this incredible digital source. I swear, I could've listened for hours on this setup.

This is all the stuff that stood out for me at the meet. The rest I either didn't have enough listening-time to say anything meaningful, or I have heard so many times before that I didn't bother listening to them again. One thing I've learned though is that I'm actually really satisfied with my current setup. I was expecting my set-up to be blown out of the water by the likes of the Omega 2s and the HE90s, but I actually didn't not feel bad at all going back to my K1000s. Yeah, I realize that the Omge 2/HE90 does more things better than my K1000s, but that recognition didn't bother me at all. I guess I've reached a place where I'm comfortable with what I have and will upgrade my K1000 setup to the best that I can afford. So that means a FirstWatt F1 is incoming my way, and hopefully a source upgrade as well. But man, that EMM Labs combo...mmmm....it is just incredible.

Now I'll shut up and let all the people with cameras to post some photos of the incredible gear. Thanks to Grahame again for hosting such a nice meeting. Hope y'all had as much fun as I did.

 

[coolshot]

i wanna thank grahame and voltron for setting this up. This was my second meet and i finally got to play with all the big toys. It was also to see some familiar faces like neilpeart and pfkman. Was a pleasure to meet craig of eddie current and mikhail of singlepower. Both brought demo amps that were simply amazing.

 

[Voltron]

Although there were still a few folks hanging out in Grahame's apartment after midnight when I left, another successful Bay Area meet came to an end technically when the lights in the meeting room went out at 11:15pm!

Ironically, until shortly before lights out, we had been jamming in the room with only the glow from the tubes on the Orpheus and *drum roll please* the new SinglePower Concerto ES--Mikhail's combination electrostatic and dynamic amp in a single Maestro case. In effect, it is an 11-tube amp section combining and ES-1 and a Maestro amp together, powered by a separate PSU with 2 rectifier tubes and 1 voltage regulating tube that can be rolled to change the voltage of the amp. It has 14 tubes in all, and unbelievable sound. We had 3 people rocking out at once on the two electrostatic and one single-ended dynamic headphone outs. Really all I can say is "WOW!" Pictures and impressions to follow tomorrow.

Of course, that was only ONE of the world premier amps brought to the meet today. The other was a stunning prototype of the new HD-30 from Eddie Current. This amp is going to be a killer! It has incredible power and authority and deep extension. I love the music this amp makes! Sitting next to this new-comer was one of Craig's first production run of the Zana Deux. I have been wanting to hear this amp for a long time and it was worth the wait. While the HD-30 has a similar sound signature, the ZD takes it up to a noticeably higher level of refinement, clarity and dynamics. Really an amazing amp. Again, pics and impressions later.

Before I pass out, I wanted to thank Grahame for being a truly gracious and very generous host, along with his lovely wife Joann who catered the snacks, drinks and other amenities along with Grahame. Really nice job Grahame!

I also want to thank Craig Uthus of Eddie Current and Mikhail Rotenberg of SinglePower for coming from so-cal and Denver to sharing their exciting line-ups of amps with us. It was a lot of effort to get here and to spend their weekend for our benefit. Thanks guys and we definitely look forward to seeing both of you at the International Meet in April.

More later...

 

[xantus]

humanflyz, I loved your k1000 setup! as you could probably tell

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanflyz 4) EMM Labs CDSD and DCC2 stack: I'm totally envious of neilvg for possessing this incredible digital source. I swear, I could've listened for hours on this setup.

we did stay for hours listening to it... I would have stayed all night if the lights didn't get shut off by the complex at 11ish.
more later, but I can't begin to say how good the sounds were, coming from the emm stack to mik's estat/dynamic amp...and in a great couch, I may now die happy.

edit: aha.. I am 23 now, listening to that combo was a great gift

 

[mrarroyo]

Hey guys, how about posting some pictures of the meet. It seems you all had a great time.

 

[blessingx]

I too want to thank Grahame and Voltron for organizing the meet. Also Coolshot for bringing the AD2Ks to try.

My highlights included chatting with Craig about the Zana, his new prototype, and the new SS amp. Also discussing and eventually buying a Lunch Box.

It was great meeting those I haven't before and seeing those I have.

One of the biggest finds, was how dramatically different the GS1000s sounded out of several amps. The Zana & prototype were incredible. The MPX3 very good. The Mapletree Ear+ (?) meanwhile produced hardly any midrange at all. The Mapletree, which sounded great with the PS1s, sounded simply awful with the GS1Ks. I'm beginning to understand the wildly divergent reviews of the unGrados.

It was also good to hear the PS1s with the GS1Ks pads, which contrary to comments I've read before, sounded quite decent.

Finally, the Cayin HA-1A is a very interesting all-purpose amp. I need to find out more info on this, but I have the suspicion from my short listening time this may be a unfairly ignored find.

 

[Voltron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xantus edit: aha.. I am 23 now, listening to that combo was a great gift

Happy ShpongleDay to you Joe!

Glad I bought you that soup, but if we had known we could have put a candle in one of those brownie bites and sung to you . . . better off no knowing probably.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo Hey guys, how about posting some pictures of the meet. It seems you all had a great time.

Miguel--Now that I have arisen from my coma, I am working on some pics. Patience.

 

[iamdone]

I want to thank Grahame and Voltron for the great event. I didn't really socialize too much expect with the very few people I already knew. I also forgot to look at the nametags to see who everyone was.

I spent most of my time comparing my PS-1 with the RS-1, HP-1/2, and GS1000. I definately liked the PS-1 the best followed by the RS-1. The HP-2 sounded great by was a little too dry for my taste. The GS1000 didn't sound silibant in any of the setups but it was still missing part of the mids that ruin it for me. I though the PS-1 with the GS1000 bowls sounds much better than the GS1000 themselves. Those bowls on the PS-1 didn't change it's sound signature that much but gave them a bigger soundstage and made them feel lighter on my head. This is the sound I was hoping the GS1000 would be. I'll probably pick up a pair of those bowls.

I also found my Mapletree amp to sound the best with PS-1. It gave them the most harmonic mids and controlled the bass. The MPX-3 give them just a touch too much bass.

I tested a few other things here and there but my favorite was the K1000 besides my PS-1. The K1000 really sounded like you were listening to speakers and have a great sound with very good bass and excellent resolution. The next best thing was the Orpheus. I was expecting to be blow away by this setup but it just sounded like a great headphone but without the groove of the Grados. I expected to hear a huge difference but it didn't provide me any more enjoyment and still had a headphone soundstage. The Stax was also very good in this regard. They have lots of detail and are very easy to listen to.

I came away from the event very satisfied with my equipment and found the only thing I'd think about upgrading is my source. I'd still use a computer based system, it's just I'd see what other DAC options are out there.

 

[Spektrograf]

That was quite the impressive meet!

Thanks to Grahame and Voltron for organizing it!! ...and and extra thanks to Grahame for hosting and providing refreshments!

I'm fairly set with my system and typically go to these things just to chat with people and see what else is cool on the landscape. It was also the first time to listen to Craig's Zana Deux amp... and....... OMG it's AMAZING! He's not kidding when he says it just draws you into the music. I can easily see losing myself for hours in the music with his setup. That impression is still stuck in my mind even though the sample was brief and amid the bustle of the other large amount (and packed) activity in the room.

The main headphone related goal for me was to see if I wanted to pickup the K701's in addition to the HD600's I already have. I've decided that, after listening to both cans through various amp/source combinations, that I'm totally thrilled and satiated with my HD600's. The K701's are wonderful cans, but I think being conditioned over 10-11 years with the Sennheiser sound has entrenched me.

Thanks to neilvg and nealpeart for hauling the quite impressive and heavy gear stash to the meet! I always enjoy listening to the equipment they bring.

Thanks again to all I chatted with.... your company is always enjoyable!

 

[Voltron]

Pics of the Eddie Current Line-up (from left to right: Zana Deux, HD-30 prototype and EC/SS), the internals of Tyrion's Zana Deux, Craig talking EC with yellafella, and xantus and yella enjoying the EC goodness.

 

[Voltron]

Pics of SinglePower's new Concerto ES combination electrostatic and dynamic amp all in one, along with the maestro himself.

More gear pics and candid shots to follow later today.

 

[J-Pak]

Wow that Concerto ES is a completely new amp?

humanflyz did you manage to ask Mikhail the questions about the high current PPX3? Thanks

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltron Pics of SinglePower's new Concerto ES combination electrostatic and dynamic amp all in one

Never seen than one before!

Is it a new model, which combine the best from Maestro ZR and ES-1?

 

[daba]

Hey everyone thanks for this meet it was kick ass! Nice putting a face to a name and meeting new people as well.

Anyways, out of everything I heard, the most notable *new things were the balanced K701 and the EMM labs gear ... simply amazing! and I thought I was done ...

 

[kontai69]

I would like to thank Grahame and Voltron for organizing the meet. This was my second meet and I was happy that I finally got to listen to and compare firsthand all the headphones that I’ve read and learned a lot about since my first meet, especially those that have gotten a lot of hype during that time. I did all my listening and comparing on my own system (HeadAmp GS-1 amp, Ack! DAck! 2.0 DAC), using my own music. I used a 12 song compilation disc containing music from different genres, all of which I have listened to countless times before. The GS-1’s dual output jacks made it easier to do A/B/A comparisons between cans. I would listen to a portion of a track over and over again with one can, and rapidly switch cans and note any differences. Here are my impressions for what they’re worth...

Grado GS-1000

This is the can that I wanted to hear the most, considering all the recent hype. To be honest, I wasn’t really impressed with them in my system. They were OK. The bass and treble certainly was more prominent than with my MS-Pro. The soundstage wasn’t as super spacious and the midrange wasn’t as “missing” as I had anticipated. However, the sound seems to have lost much of that much Grado “magic.” Guitars don’t have as much “twang” and texture to them, as you do with other Grados. They almost sound kind of bland and lack the energy and excitement of the MS-Pro. Also, the kick drum on U2’s Bullet the Blue Sky sounded very “boomy,” whereas on my MS-Pro is really nice and tight. The GS1K sound pretty good with classical music/stringed instruments and were pretty comfortable to wear. I’m glad that I decided wait and audition them first before buying. I would have likely returned or sold them for a loss. I would definitely recommend a (used) RS-1/MS-Pro if you are in the market for a high end Grado. I got my mint MS-Pros for $550 shipped.

Grado PS-1 (bowl pads)

This is another can that I wanted to try the most due to the recent hype. The bass certainly is much more prominent than the MS-Pro, in fact almost too much with certain songs. I think this would be fatiguing to me over time. The rest of the sound was similar to the MS-Pro, maybe a little more neutral, certainly wasn’t profound. They weren’t as heavy on the head as anticipated.

Grado HP-1

These certainly are neutral sounding headphones. The bass and treble is clearly attenuated compared to the MS-Pro. The attenuated bass was unexpected considering the flat pads on them. The midrange is nice and neutral. They do seem to be less exciting and fun than the RS-1/MS-Pro but I feel that I can listen to them all day without fatigue. However, considering that they are no longer made and are now super expensive, obtaining them is out of the picture for me.

Grado RS-1
I used to own the RS-1 and did an exhaustive comparison between it and the MS-Pro…
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showp...67&postcount=8

At the meet, I wanted to directly compare them again, especially now that I’ve crushed the bowl pads on my MS-Pros since the time I wrote that review. The sonic differences between them are now very slight. The MS-Pro has a slightly more spacious and laid back sound. Vocals on the RS-1 are slightly fuller sounding but can be slightly peaky at times. However, in a blind test, I probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. Circularlogic, who owns the RS-1, said they both sounded the same to him.

There were three RS-1 at the meet (2 older pairs, 1 “new”), serendipitously laying on a table side by side at one time. I clearly saw the difference in craftsmanship between the old and the new pairs. I wish I had brought my camera to take a pic. I can tell the “older” pairs were old because of the round notch and the softer headband. The older pairs had a deep glossy finish with perfect woodworking. My slightly older MS-Pros also have this high level of finish. The new pair (SN: 30xx) had some splinters on the edges, the lacquer was inadequately applied and rough feeling, and one of the buttons was noticeable askew. However, the defects were not as bad as what I had with my “late Friday” RS-1 (SN# 2730). I speculate that the “bad run” with the RS-1 must have included at least several hundred units.

Grado HF-1
I briefly listened to these. These seem to have a more forward sound compared to the MS-Pro.

Sony SA5000
I did not A/B compare these with anything because I immediately found the sound to be very bright, thin, artificial sounding. Weak bass. I listened to these for about 1 min (using rock music) before giving them back and saying “yuck.” Maybe they did not mate well my setup (better with tubes?). I find it rather incredulous that one forum member has repeatedly said that this is the best headphone around, which almost made me order a pair blindly. I’m glad I did not waste my money.

AKG-701 and HD-650 (stock cable)
I had both of these cans plugged into the GS-1. After extensive comparisons, they sound quite similar. The 701 has slightly less but tighter bass with slightly better treble extension. I would not consider owning both of these cans at the same time. I wish that I had brought my 650/Zu to do a comparison to what I have.

Audio Technica ATH-A900

I was really impressed with these cans! I haven’t listened to any AT products before nor have I spent the time to read anything about them. They had a nice full-bodied and slightly forward sound, extended treble. Both the 701 and 650 sounded “muffled” in comparison. Their build quality and finish was really good. It even is made in Japan. How rare is that nowadays. I thought they would be worth at least $700-800 and thought to myself that I might have to fork over that kind of dough to get one. When I asked Neilpeart the cost and he said under $200, I could not believe it! It’s kind of funny when you consider that the SR-225 costs about the same and is much more cheaply built. I will definitely be ordering myself this pair of ATs. I also listened to the LTD version, which I thought had a slightly more recessed midrange but more spacious sound. I actually preferred the “regular” blue version.

Sennheiser Orpheus HE90 system

I got to listen to it using my own music. The sound is soooo real and natural. No coloration. All others headphones sound “muffled” in comparison. I was surprised that the bass on them was powerful. I was under the wrong impression that electrostatics were weak on bass were only good with classical. The Orpheus rocked with AC/DC. This is truly the best of the best headphone.

There were a lot of great amps there as well. However, I’m pretty much satisfied with my GS-1 so I did not really spend much time listening to any of them. Anyway, it was a great meet and I certainly got what I wanted to get out of it. I look forward to the National Meet next year.