Setup suggestions
Feb 5, 2018 at 6:17 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 4

enthusedsock

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I've managed to snag a set of HD600s to replace my broken Q701's

I have a matrix m stage hooked up to my PC via USB that went well with my broken cans.
Is there anything I should add to my setup that would compliment the HD600s?
I've read that the m stage can be used as a pre amp? I'm not really sure what that would mean?
I've also read that the HD600s sound really nice on a tube amp...

Would it be a good idea to use my m stage as a pre amp so I can utilize a tube amp on my pc via the usb m stage?
Could I possibly save money by getting a less powerful tube amp this way? Or am I way off base? Any suggestions for around the $150 mark or less?
 
Feb 5, 2018 at 11:17 AM Post #2 of 4
Is there anything I should add to my setup that would compliment the HD600s?

As long as you're already using the M-Stage with USB input, none. You can't add anything actually, unless you replace the M-Stage...


I've also read that the HD600s sound really nice on a tube amp...

...with something like the Darkvoice DV336se.


I've read that the m stage can be used as a pre amp? I'm not really sure what that would mean?

That means the signal goes from the preamp stage, ie the volume control stage, of the M-Stage, skips the headphone output stage circuit, and then goes out of the amp to a pure power amp (ie an amp with no preamp stage) driving passive speakers or powered monitors that only have a gain control on each speaker unit.


Would it be a good idea to use my m stage as a pre amp so I can utilize a tube amp on my pc via the usb m stage?

No. You'd have two volume controls on the same chain. On speakers driven by a pure power amp the preamp is necessary to control the volume, or boost the signal if the amp's input sensitivity is a little low.

On studio monitors you only really have a gain control, and separate for each speaker unit too, so it's convenient to have a volume control closer to your hand.


Could I possibly save money by getting a less powerful tube amp this way? Or am I way off base? Any suggestions for around the $150 mark or less?

So basically you want to downgrade to an amp with lower output and more distortion?
 
Feb 6, 2018 at 12:52 AM Post #3 of 4
You can't add anything actually, unless you replace the M-Stage...

with something like the Darkvoice DV336se.


So basically you want to downgrade to an amp with lower output and more distortion?

Thanks for the advice and clarification.
I'll check out the dark voice amp.

And no I don't want a downgrade.
I just saw a bunch of videos where they were talking about pre amps and running dacs off amps etc etc.
I was confused and derived a meaning that was completely wrong because of wishful thinking!
So. Your over all statement is that an upgrade to the Darkvoice DV336se would improve the sound of the hd600s?

Would there be any reason to keep the m stage? I'm starting to get into collecting different headphones for different musical experiences.
Perhaps the m stage will be worth keeping for other cans?
 
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Feb 7, 2018 at 11:17 AM Post #4 of 4
I just saw a bunch of videos where they were talking about pre amps and running dacs off amps etc etc.

Not sure what you mean by "running DACs off amps etc" - the Digital to Analogue Converter takes a Digital signal and then Converts it to Analogue, then that is passed to the preamp stage to control the signal strength either by boosting it (as on an active preamp circuit) or attenuating it (on a passive circuit), then it gets passed to the final amp output stage which really amplifies it to a stronger signal that can move a transducer (ie a headphone driver or speaker drivers like midwoofers and tweeters).

These circuits can all be in one box like the AudioGD NFB-11 or your M-stage, with the preamp stage being capable of routing it outside of the box instead of its own amp output stage; separate with the DAC in one box while the preamp stage on the amplifier has that same bypass route, like on Schiit DACs and HPamps; or something like what Meier does, which is put a preamp output on the DAC and then have a headphone amp. The first one has something like the AudioGDs that have a selector switch out front for the output to be either headphone, DAC direct, or preamp output; the last one allows for using the speakers getting a signal to their amp off the DAC's preamp output without having to switch the headphone amp on or off (if it's on, just take the headphones off and lower the volume on the headphone amp).


So. Your over all statement is that an upgrade to the Darkvoice DV336se would improve the sound of the hd600s?

From a technical standpoint, the HD600 will get more power since OTL amps are designed to pour out more power into 300ohm loads than at 32ohms. And while looking solely at the distortion levels alone could mean you're getting more distortion off an OTL amp, if there is any audible distortion on the M-Stage when you crank it up driving a high impedance load, then you're just trading lower levels of what is usually sharper sounding distortion on solid state for higher levels of more pleasing distortion on the OTL. So on the HD600 it might be a beneficial sidegrade. Wouldn't really call it an upgrade or downgrade.

Of course, there are some other considerations. Tubes wear out sooner than solid state components, and AFAIK the stock tube set will set you back around $100. That said, at least when tubes conk out you don't have to whip out measuring equipment to figure out which chip is busted and then a soldering iron to take them off the board - you just pull these off and put new tubes in. Also, while tubes have a shorter life, it's not like all solid state components will absolute always last longer, and when one does conk out, they're harder to diagnose and replace.

Another is the power delivery profile. OTL amps are output transformerless, which means two things. Power delivery is biased for 300ohms vs 32ohms - not only in terms of output level but also that it has a very high output impedance. The HD600 has a high senstivity of 97dB/1mW, while the HE400i and AKG K&xx series have 35ohm and 62ohm impedance but a sensitivity of only 93dB/1mW. To put that in perspective, your M-Stage will pour more power into the HiFiMan and AKG, but despite putting less power into the HD600, the max SPL that these headphones will reach will be within 2dB difference anyway since the HD600 is more efficient. it would have to drastically drop output at 300ohms for this to be a total disadvantage to the HD600. The OTL amp will basically pour more power into the HD600 that it doesn't necessarily need, while having an issue with the low impedance of the HiFiMan and AKG due to the lower output level at that impedance as well as the high output impedance on the OTL amp, which can either make the bass bloat or thin out.


Would there be any reason to keep the m stage? I'm starting to get into collecting different headphones for different musical experiences.
Perhaps the m stage will be worth keeping for other cans?

You can drive low impedance loads with it. Although personally since the M-Stage isn't necessarily that bad an amp for the HD600 you might as well save what you'd spend on the low cost OTL amp now and save up for a transformer coupled tube amp that has high output and low output impedance for low impedance loads but still have enough power into 300ohms like the M-Stage, and still have distortion ratios more comparable to a solid state amp, that way you wouldn't have too much tube distortion, but just enough to soften the tendency of solid state amps to have rougher edges. Look into the WooAudio WA22 for that.

The downside to transformer-coupled amps though is the cost. They tend to use more transformers as on the WA22 so they'll cost more, and that one also uses more tubes, so your routine maintenance will be higher (although again at least you can just pull the tubes off instead of soldering on chips). Alternately you can just get a hybrid amp like the Schiit Lyr2, or a better, smoother sounding solid state like a Meier Classic (and the DACcord to go with it) or a Violectric.
 

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