[Hachiroku]

Hello HF !
 
I've been pondering a lot and I think the AKGs are probably the direction I'm leaning towards. So anyway, I've gone through like 200 pages of the aforementioned product's thread and it seems that most of the discussions are just centered around the differences in the K7xx line, I haven't seen many pairings suggestions for them. There were a few, but then again, if the people who suggest a product won't describe the sound qualities it offers at least summarily, I can't really make anything of it. So far I've read that it might pair well with the Lyr2 if the tubes are replaced with better ones (kudos to kman). I've also read the Burson SL could be a good pairing too, and that it's also slightly warm while retaining detail. 
 
I know it's essentially quite hard to settle on a single amp for "future-proofing" anything. But do you think there's anything in the 500-850$ range that could potentially hold out through the years while withholding some variety when it comes to different pairings ? I think it's a good time to spend on something good in this mid-range. Oh and I mean that just for the amp, as for the DAC, I'm thinking of getting something cheap like an M2 until I can get an expensive DAC (probably talking about a few more years). So as far as this goes, would it be better to just wait for another year and get something high-end, such as around 1000$+ ? Fellow audiophiles suggested I should prioritize the headphones and amp in this order, until I can get a better DAC later on.
 
A few things maybe some owners could explain: why do a lot of people consider these mid-fi ? Is it better to just go for cheaper amps for them, are they truly not high-fidelity headphones ? 
 
Also, I haven't quite found out how to get balanced cables. Is it specifically hard to get such a cable later on for the AKG line (someone mentioned their uncommon XLR ports makes it impossible to balance the cable) ? I would really like to know since it's a pretty high-price investment and I can't assess the importance of having a balanced port on the amp as I'm not quite experienced in the domain.I've seen these ports in the following setups: 1 port in the front, and 2 ports which look exactly like that one, but in the back of the amp. Is there a difference I should get informed on ? If so, do those 2 ports which look the same as the balanced headphone jack actually have a different use ? 
 
TL;DR: is it overkill to get a very good mid-range amp for these ? What suggestions would you have for a 500-850$ line amp ?

 

[kid vic]

Look into the Garage1217 Project ember, which many people say matches well with there Q7/K7 headphones, it also has many settings allowing it to work with almost any headphone and source combo or almost any tube that you can buy. 
 
If you want to get the K712 you probably shouldn't consider balancing it because you would have to get the whole headphone recabled and re terminated for potentially a very small improvement.
 
There considered mid-fi because of their current price but with the right pairing they are often favorably compared to much more expensive setups. The Q7/K7 series is where diminishing returns really start to show up; many headphones do certain things better or even many things better but its not a difference that is irreconcilable. Also part of it is sound signature preference.

 

[raybone0566]

I owned the 712's for quite a while. Only sold them because I received a pair of hd800's. Matched with a good tube amp and good Dac and they are very nice. Wide soundstage, good imaging & instrument seperation. Schiit Vali 2 is getting high praise, a good entry level tube amp so you can get a feel for tubes. Then I'd suggest a multibit Dac. That Dac is very important in the chain. I'd spend more on that than the amp. You can always upgrade your amp later but the vali2 will be fine. Schiit audio bifrost mb Dac for around 650, then your set. Enjoy

 

[Hachiroku]

@kid vic thank you very much for the detailed suggestion. I've actually attempted to order it like last week or so, but it seems PayPal won't accept payment from my homeland in US (Eastern EU), don't quite know what the deal was as their feedback was rather poor and superficial (and I mean PayPal support, the folks at G1217 have amazing advice), so that quite limits choices, unfortunately .I'd read a lot about the Ember II, and it seems indeed something of great value for the price, given that you have tons of tube rolling possibilities. 
 
@raybone0566 I've heard that the first vali required high impedance cans, and it also has a noise floor issue. Have you tried the second version with your K712 ? That's quite surprising, since people have told me I can forget about the DAC until I can get a good one so I should focus on getting some good phones and an amp. Do you think a mb bifrost will really make a bigger difference even with a cheaper amp ? 
 
I've been wondering if it's just better to give it 1-2 more years and dive into an entry "high level" setup, an example being the Mjolnir2 + Gungnir. The thing is I'm curious whether it will make a significant difference over say a Lyr2 and Bimby, especially since I haven't gotten the opportunity of testing out expensive rigs to differentiate.
I've only tried the WA22 with the HD650s, and to be honest even for someone as inexperienced at me, the sound qualities it offered were amazing, it felt like those phones were on a whole different level of sound, compared to an M-stage, which made them sound quite disappointing in fact, compared to the woo audio gear. But then again, I've tried quite a few phones on the matrix amp (598,650,700) and I didn't find it quite pleasing, though I'm not saying it's not a good amp at all. 
 
Edit: also, since you seem to be pretty experienced, would you mind telling me what kind of setups you've tried with the K712? It would definiteley be good to know what you've discovered pairs well with the K712! 
Sorry for potential grammar errors !

 

[raybone0566]

I've still got a matrix amp at home. Paid 80 bucks for it and it's a good little entry level amp. Imo the phones and Dac are the most important pieces in the chain. Really depends on how serious you are and how far you want to take it money wise. I've gone through a bunch of gear trying to match components. Fortunately I've been able to sell them here. I've lost a few bucks, but enjoyed every piece of gear I've had here. The vali2 is the amp I was referring to. I had the original, that was a good little amp as well. The vali2 is getting a good bit of praise here & on other forums. The Dac will really improve your phones performance though, critical part of the chain. I'm sure you'll enjoy whatever you decide on. Remember, you can always upgrade as long as your wallet can handle it,
Cheers

 

[Hachiroku]

Well first of all I should say it might have been a specific model which I've omitted mentioning (hpa-3u) and that was a 500 eur amp. Then again, I haven't tried out many of them, I just felt like that's pretty costly for what I've heard from them. Anyhow, I don't know what chip it is, and I think they had plenty of details, maybe it was just a bad idea for them to suggest starting off with the WA22. Or I guess it might have just been Senns pairing much better with tube amps. I'm reading the HF thread for vali2 right now, I'm interested in potential improvements over the last one, appreciate this suggestion! As for the Bifrost, I've heard a lot about the multibit version, even though Gungnir mb seems to be globally appreciated as a TOTL DAC. You definitely have a good point, especially since it would take me quite a while until I could afford a Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir2 mb combo. 
 
As for selling gear, that's why I keep thinking about aiming for something very good, I doubt I could ever resell anything in eastern EU, besides that, people would probably be expecting really low prices. And as marketing works, sadly, once the product is out of its retail store, anyone would rate it as a used product. I think it's quite a good analogy to the vehicle market. So I thought I should exploit HF's hefty threads as much as I can to make sure I get good quality for the price, since I can't really go around switching gear often. I just thought since music is one of the few things that helped me through a lot,so aiming for the higher midrange should be justifiable (I've heard solid amps can last you more than 5 years). 
I'm glad someone would even compare the K712 to the mighty HD800, that looks like a good prospect ! 

 

[raybone0566]

Violectric makes some of the nicest amps I've seen in ss. I've got a hpa v90 which puts out 2.3 watts into 50ohms. It can drive everything except the he6. Built like a tank as well. I put my little dot mkiii in the classifieds at 11 pm last night & sold it first thing this morning. Like I said, it depends on how serious you want to get into the hobby. This is all I do. I go to work, come home and mess with this then play with my wife. But I enjoy the hell out of it. Don't rush to buy something, read reviews and threads. Good luck

 

[Hachiroku]

Welp, looks like I'm checking out some violectric threads next! Btw, the vali2 seems really nice, at least judging by their specs, looks like low impedance issues should be gone. Gonna try checking out some reviews, I've been interested in Bifrost mb vs Gungnir USB2. I guess I have to add V800 to that list, however, it seems pretty competitive-priced since Gungnir2 costs the same, and man, have I read tons of good things about that one !
The little dots seem to be quite appreciated here as well, most of the people say they're outstanding quality for the price, the only reason I didn't consider them was because I feared it will probably involve some hardcore tube-rolling (it might end up badly, in some shopping sprees).
Well, I did dive into mid-fi phones (X1) for probably more than 2 years ago and I honestly feel awful for having spent hundreds on trash "virtual surround" headsets, had I known better...
Anyway, I'm not quite pretentious, so I'm not planning to (and probably can't afford to either) play around with different amps/dacs, I guess I'm trying to say I'm only looking for the right tool. If I find good quality for the value and I hopefully enjoy its sound, I'll stick to it. Although at this point, I've only owned usb sound cards, which most likely suck, so I'm sure there's a wide array of improvements over here.
I'll see if I can find second-hands in good shape, otherwise I guess it will have to be bifrost mb+v2.
Thank you very much for your patience, and since it's in a timely manner, best wishes for the upcoming year !
 
P.S.:I bet, it looks like a pretty badass schedule to me! 

 

 

[raybone0566]

I just saw a violectric hpa v100 on eBay. Starting bid is 249.00 I believe + 10.00 shipping. That amp is 750.00 new. Owner said he bought it in 2015, his feedback is flawless. That's a really good deal. Don't know if he'll ship to you though. That's something you have to deal with. I really feel sorry for you guys with the customs issues and shipping hassles. That can be a pain in the ass. I hope you find what your looking for. If you have any questions feel free to hit me up. I'll help out however I can, cheers

 

[kid vic]

I just saw a violectric hpa v100 on eBay. Starting bid is 249.00 I believe + 10.00 shipping. That amp is 750.00 new. Owner said he bought it in 2015, his feedback is flawless. That's a really good deal. Don't know if he'll ship to you though. That's something you have to deal with. I really feel sorry for you guys with the customs issues and shipping hassles. That can be a pain in the ass. I hope you find what your looking for. If you have any questions feel free to hit me up. I'll help out however I can, cheers

Yeah try the violectric stuff, also check lake people seeing as they are the same company and almost  identical products at very similar prices. I had thoughts about buying a lake people G109 but ended up buying more AKG's.....

 

[raybone0566]

I've only owned two pair of akg's, the 240's and 712's. I really enjoyed the 712's, very good pair of phones. Highly underrated around here.

 

[kid vic]

I've only owned two pair of akg's, the 240's and 712's. I really enjoyed the 712's, very good pair of phones. Highly underrated around here.

yeah I own 4 currently but have owned 6 in total... Might let the K7XX's go one day if I find a decent deal on some K812's....

 

[raybone0566]

yeah I own 4 currently but have owned 6 in total... Might let the K7XX's go one day if I find a decent deal on some K812's....

I've heard from a few people they gave internal wiring issues with the 812 and have had plenty unhappy customers. I'd already have them if I hadn't heard that. If you can do try the t1 original, I was actually shocked how good and balanced it is. Very sweet headphone.

 

[Hachiroku]

I'd been quite reticent about the former T1s, although their price has gone down significantly from 1k, I've been afraid of what people claimed about excessive treble and V-shaped. That's how I stumbled upon some K712 reviews, it seemed like the controlled bass + good midrange reviews pointed out caught my attention. 
I've been looking for that auction you told me about, but haven't seemed to find it (checked german and U.S. ebay).
 
Without victimizing, yeah it is a considerable nuisance sometimes with the customs- some products can really go through without any issue, no matter their costs, and some get stopped. But what's the real deal-breaker about that is that, if you want something above 400$, you will most likely end up paying around 40% more for it in import taxes, it's really hefty with this government and union norms. But anyway, what I really dislike is that I never get any place where I can actually try out various stuff (no meetings or such) and staff are kinda irritated about letting you test expensive gear long enough for one to actually make an opinion, on top of the fact that there are only a few stores with showrooms in the whole country. That's why I really admire U.S. business, simply any NA customer support I've dealt with has been friendly and helpful.

 

[raybone0566]

The amp is still on eBay, 3days 8hours left. Can't figure out how to copy link. Try searching violectric hpa100. He doesn't have the v in his listing. If I didn't have mine I'd be all over it.