brospin
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2006
- Posts
- 290
- Likes
- 10
I would appreciate recommendations for SET amps for driving the K1000. How about a 300B SET? Thanks.
SET amp for K1000
- Thread starter brospin
- Start date
typically speaking a 300b would work great keep in mind however there is a huge range of 300b amps out there. If you buy one I would immediately go with upgraded tubes. I am really interested in the kr line of 300b tubes and beleive they may be better than the WE. Quote:
| Originally Posted by brospin /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would appreciate recommendations for SET amps for driving the K1000. How about a 300B SET? Thanks. |
tyrion
Can Jam '08 Lead Organizer
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2003
- Posts
- 10,921
- Likes
- 93
K1000 are my primary headphone and mate well with my Woo Audio WA5 which is a 300b amp. I use WE 300b tubes. I have no idea how they compare to the KR tubes, one of which is sold as a clone of the WE tube. Many that heard this amp felt the WE's were the way to go but I don't believe they had KR tubes to compare. I highly recommend this amp which has a dedicated 4 pin xlr for the K1000 (or any other headphone you terminate with a 4 pin xlr), a 1/4 jack and speaker taps. I've heard the Moth 300b amp and it is excellent but you are not likely to find one. Moving up cost wise is the Zanden which sounds great as well.
Roam
Banned - aka aerius
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2007
- Posts
- 476
- Likes
- 21
Quote:
It depends on what you're looking for, the WE is simply the most transparent high resolution tube available, which unfortunately is also why many complain of rolled-off highs & lows along with slightly loose bass. This is what happens when an amp has an inadequate driver stage or uses RC coupling, which by the way describes around 98% of all 300B amplifier designs. In a properly designed amplifier the WE 300B is king, it has no equal in my opinion.
The KR is a 300B of a different stripe, the 300BXLS has a bold dynamic sound at the expense of resolution and soundstaging. With speakers, not only is the soundstage smaller, the sweetspot is as well. It can't extract as much low-level detail as the WE and it tends to impose its sound on the music, it just doesn't have the transparency & resolution of the WE. However, when paired with typical amps it generally outperforms the WE, but in the best amplifiers the WE's full potential is realized and it pulls away from the KR.
It should also be noted that there's two types of KR 300Bs, the BXLS which I mentioned above and the balloon style 300B. The balloon style 300B is somewhere in between the Western Electric 300B and KR 300BXLS.
If the extra power of the BXLS isn't needed, the balloon style KR is the one I'd recommend. If the driver stage of your amplifier is a low distortion, high current, low output impedance design using transformer, direct, or LC coupling, the WE 300B becomes the best choice assuming the extra power of the BXLS isn't needed.
| Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am really interested in the kr line of 300b tubes and beleive they may be better than the WE. |
It depends on what you're looking for, the WE is simply the most transparent high resolution tube available, which unfortunately is also why many complain of rolled-off highs & lows along with slightly loose bass. This is what happens when an amp has an inadequate driver stage or uses RC coupling, which by the way describes around 98% of all 300B amplifier designs. In a properly designed amplifier the WE 300B is king, it has no equal in my opinion.
The KR is a 300B of a different stripe, the 300BXLS has a bold dynamic sound at the expense of resolution and soundstaging. With speakers, not only is the soundstage smaller, the sweetspot is as well. It can't extract as much low-level detail as the WE and it tends to impose its sound on the music, it just doesn't have the transparency & resolution of the WE. However, when paired with typical amps it generally outperforms the WE, but in the best amplifiers the WE's full potential is realized and it pulls away from the KR.
It should also be noted that there's two types of KR 300Bs, the BXLS which I mentioned above and the balloon style 300B. The balloon style 300B is somewhere in between the Western Electric 300B and KR 300BXLS.
If the extra power of the BXLS isn't needed, the balloon style KR is the one I'd recommend. If the driver stage of your amplifier is a low distortion, high current, low output impedance design using transformer, direct, or LC coupling, the WE 300B becomes the best choice assuming the extra power of the BXLS isn't needed.
brospin
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2006
- Posts
- 290
- Likes
- 10
Quote:
The WA5 is really a very interesting product. The main issue (price aside) is the huge size. How does the WA5 sound with "regular phones"?
| Originally Posted by tyrion /img/forum/go_quote.gif K1000 are my primary headphone and mate well with my Woo Audio WA5 which is a 300b amp. I use WE 300b tubes. I have no idea how they compare to the KR tubes, one of which is sold as a clone of the WE tube. Many that heard this amp felt the WE's were the way to go but I don't believe they had KR tubes to compare. I highly recommend this amp which has a dedicated 4 pin xlr for the K1000 (or any other headphone you terminate with a 4 pin xlr), a 1/4 jack and speaker taps. I've heard the Moth 300b amp and it is excellent but you are not likely to find one. Moving up cost wise is the Zanden which sounds great as well. |
The WA5 is really a very interesting product. The main issue (price aside) is the huge size. How does the WA5 sound with "regular phones"?
Quote:
but it's not a balanced headphone amp (right), so there would be little reason to terminate headphones with the 4-pin connector.
| Originally Posted by tyrion /img/forum/go_quote.gif I highly recommend this amp which has a dedicated 4 pin xlr for the K1000 (or any other headphone you terminate with a 4 pin xlr). |
but it's not a balanced headphone amp (right), so there would be little reason to terminate headphones with the 4-pin connector.
brospin
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2006
- Posts
- 290
- Likes
- 10
Quote:
You're right. The 4 pin XLR conector is merely intended for the K1000 and is even labelled as such.
| Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif but it's not a balanced headphone amp (right), so there would be little reason to terminate headphones with the 4-pin connector. |
You're right. The 4 pin XLR conector is merely intended for the K1000 and is even labelled as such.
Jon L
For him, f/1.2 is a prime number
- Joined
- May 20, 2003
- Posts
- 4,490
- Likes
- 733
If you have a pretty balanced system (not overly lean or bright), I can heartily recommend a good 2A3SET for K1000, especially the kind with Parafeed output like Paramours.
Paramour
If you like 45's, you can even try 45's in the Paramour MkII's, though 45 isn't enough power for K1000. BTW, a great sounding 2A3 tube is MUCH cheaper than great sounding 300B or 45 tube
Paramour
If you like 45's, you can even try 45's in the Paramour MkII's, though 45 isn't enough power for K1000. BTW, a great sounding 2A3 tube is MUCH cheaper than great sounding 300B or 45 tube
Roam
Banned - aka aerius
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2007
- Posts
- 476
- Likes
- 21
Quote:
But you get what you pay for, the 2A3 isn't as linear as a 45 or 300B. As good as it is, the 2A3 still has more distortion in the higher harmonics, 2nd & 3rd is about the same, but from there on up the harmonics are about 5-10dB higher than a 45 or 300B. Even the fabled monoplate RCA 2A3 is solidly beaten by good 45s, 50s, and 300Bs.
| Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you like 45's, you can even try 45's in the Paramour MkII's, though 45 isn't enough power for K1000. BTW, a great sounding 2A3 tube is MUCH cheaper than great sounding 300B or 45 tube
|
But you get what you pay for, the 2A3 isn't as linear as a 45 or 300B. As good as it is, the 2A3 still has more distortion in the higher harmonics, 2nd & 3rd is about the same, but from there on up the harmonics are about 5-10dB higher than a 45 or 300B. Even the fabled monoplate RCA 2A3 is solidly beaten by good 45s, 50s, and 300Bs.
Quote:
while I have not heard this amp I have heard the moth 2a3 and thought it sounded generally good with the k1000s it ran out of gas above 80db levels with any music that had dynamic contrasts. So in short yes this is good but only with limited volumes. The k1000 can sound great at 1 watt at 120 ohms but you need more watts at 8 ohms. I am not science based with this next bit but I have found that not all watts are created equal and I have heard 2 amps with similar watt and ohm ratings put off perceivably different volumes.
I would stick with 300b amps at 10 watts at 8ohms of greater or another amp that does 10 or more quality watts into 8ohms.
| Originally Posted by Jon L /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you have a pretty balanced system (not overly lean or bright), I can heartily recommend a good 2A3SET for K1000, especially the kind with Parafeed output like Paramours. Paramour
If you like 45's, you can even try 45's in the Paramour MkII's, though 45 isn't enough power for K1000. BTW, a great sounding 2A3 tube is MUCH cheaper than great sounding 300B or 45 tube
|
while I have not heard this amp I have heard the moth 2a3 and thought it sounded generally good with the k1000s it ran out of gas above 80db levels with any music that had dynamic contrasts. So in short yes this is good but only with limited volumes. The k1000 can sound great at 1 watt at 120 ohms but you need more watts at 8 ohms. I am not science based with this next bit but I have found that not all watts are created equal and I have heard 2 amps with similar watt and ohm ratings put off perceivably different volumes.
I would stick with 300b amps at 10 watts at 8ohms of greater or another amp that does 10 or more quality watts into 8ohms.
Quote:
Roam what do you think of the Wright Audio Au-10SE?
AU-10SE - Wright Sound Company
I've only heard second hand impressions of the amp (as per your recommendation I believe).
| Originally Posted by Roam /img/forum/go_quote.gif It depends on what you're looking for, the WE is simply the most transparent high resolution tube available, which unfortunately is also why many complain of rolled-off highs & lows along with slightly loose bass. This is what happens when an amp has an inadequate driver stage or uses RC coupling, which by the way describes around 98% of all 300B amplifier designs. In a properly designed amplifier the WE 300B is king, it has no equal in my opinion. The KR is a 300B of a different stripe, the 300BXLS has a bold dynamic sound at the expense of resolution and soundstaging. With speakers, not only is the soundstage smaller, the sweetspot is as well. It can't extract as much low-level detail as the WE and it tends to impose its sound on the music, it just doesn't have the transparency & resolution of the WE. However, when paired with typical amps it generally outperforms the WE, but in the best amplifiers the WE's full potential is realized and it pulls away from the KR. It should also be noted that there's two types of KR 300Bs, the BXLS which I mentioned above and the balloon style 300B. The balloon style 300B is somewhere in between the Western Electric 300B and KR 300BXLS. If the extra power of the BXLS isn't needed, the balloon style KR is the one I'd recommend. If the driver stage of your amplifier is a low distortion, high current, low output impedance design using transformer, direct, or LC coupling, the WE 300B becomes the best choice assuming the extra power of the BXLS isn't needed. |
Roam what do you think of the Wright Audio Au-10SE?
AU-10SE - Wright Sound Company
I've only heard second hand impressions of the amp (as per your recommendation I believe).
Jon L
For him, f/1.2 is a prime number
- Joined
- May 20, 2003
- Posts
- 4,490
- Likes
- 733
Quote:
Who knows. Moth 2a3 is completely different design using direct coupling of 6SL7 to 2A3, tube rectification with 5AR4/GZ34, with "traditional" transformer output.
Paramour uses the "lowly" cap coupling of 6201/12AT7 to 2A3, SS rectification with soft recovery, Parafeed output transformer, and C4S constant current source for driver stage.
I don't know how you're measuring 80dB (at ear?), but I haven't yet run out of steam with Paramour/K1000 before my ears give out first.
I haven't tried the Moth with K1000 yet, but it does sound nice with traditional headphones, though.
| Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif while I have not heard this amp I have heard the moth 2a3 and thought it sounded generally good with the k1000s it ran out of gas above 80db levels with any music that had dynamic contrasts. |
Who knows. Moth 2a3 is completely different design using direct coupling of 6SL7 to 2A3, tube rectification with 5AR4/GZ34, with "traditional" transformer output.
Paramour uses the "lowly" cap coupling of 6201/12AT7 to 2A3, SS rectification with soft recovery, Parafeed output transformer, and C4S constant current source for driver stage.
I don't know how you're measuring 80dB (at ear?), but I haven't yet run out of steam with Paramour/K1000 before my ears give out first.
I haven't tried the Moth with K1000 yet, but it does sound nice with traditional headphones, though.
nikongod
DIY-ku
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2005
- Posts
- 8,882
- Likes
- 130
no vote for the SinglePower extreme?
Quote:
i disagree with the whole non-use of the 4-pin.
XLR connectors dont short the outputs to ground when you unplug them. this eliminates (reduces?) the need for output protection garbage circuitry. even on a single-ended amp there are applications for an XLR plug.
the use of the separate dedicated plugs also allows the use of different transformer output taps without complicated switching systems. the WHOLE point of single ended is reduction of complication and improving simplification...
Quote:
| Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif but it's not a balanced headphone amp (right), so there would be little reason to terminate headphones with the 4-pin connector. |
i disagree with the whole non-use of the 4-pin.
XLR connectors dont short the outputs to ground when you unplug them. this eliminates (reduces?) the need for output protection garbage circuitry. even on a single-ended amp there are applications for an XLR plug.
the use of the separate dedicated plugs also allows the use of different transformer output taps without complicated switching systems. the WHOLE point of single ended is reduction of complication and improving simplification...
number1sixerfan
Headphoneus Supremus
On a side note, I powered the k1000s with a jolida home theather hybrid amp and the k1000s sounded absolutely amazing. You just have to be careful when you do that because one slight touch on the volume dial and it can be pain on your ears.
Roam
Banned - aka aerius
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2007
- Posts
- 476
- Likes
- 21
Quote:
It's very nice, not quite up to the level of the Wavelength Cardinal though it has the potential to surpass it with some parts upgrades, mainly the coupling capacitors and output transformers. The O-netics output transformers are around the same level as standard core Lundahls, the resolution is about the same with a slightly different sound. With Tribute output transformers and teflon coupling caps, the Wright Sound amp will easily match the Cardinals. Unfortunately, the caps & transformers are rather costly, especially with the increasing price of copper in recent years and the plummeting value of the USD.
George Wright is one of the few people in high-end audio who understands proper circuit design, and he also has great attention to detail. To give an example, Mr. Wright uses steel in the chassis of his amplifiers, which is both a good thing and a bad thing. Good in that it shields the circuit within from external magnetic fields, bad since if a transformer is mounted directly on the chassis, its magnetic field will couple into the chassis and tend to make everything hum. The transformers on the Wright Sound amps are spaced away from the chassis to prevent the magnetic field from coupling into it. That's attention to detail and good engineering.
| Originally Posted by J-Pak /img/forum/go_quote.gif Roam what do you think of the Wright Audio Au-10SE? AU-10SE - Wright Sound Company I've only heard second hand impressions of the amp (as per your recommendation I believe). |
It's very nice, not quite up to the level of the Wavelength Cardinal though it has the potential to surpass it with some parts upgrades, mainly the coupling capacitors and output transformers. The O-netics output transformers are around the same level as standard core Lundahls, the resolution is about the same with a slightly different sound. With Tribute output transformers and teflon coupling caps, the Wright Sound amp will easily match the Cardinals. Unfortunately, the caps & transformers are rather costly, especially with the increasing price of copper in recent years and the plummeting value of the USD.
George Wright is one of the few people in high-end audio who understands proper circuit design, and he also has great attention to detail. To give an example, Mr. Wright uses steel in the chassis of his amplifiers, which is both a good thing and a bad thing. Good in that it shields the circuit within from external magnetic fields, bad since if a transformer is mounted directly on the chassis, its magnetic field will couple into the chassis and tend to make everything hum. The transformers on the Wright Sound amps are spaced away from the chassis to prevent the magnetic field from coupling into it. That's attention to detail and good engineering.
Users who are viewing this thread
