[King of Pangaea]

I tend to agree multilaterally with this train of thought.  I originally bought Burson HA160D for my Senn 800s but found both Senns, 600 & 800 sounded much better by my little Creek OBH-11 which only cost $225.00.  Thinking there must be better than what I was hearing then, I started looking at other amps, Conductor and HDVD 800 among them.  I then started thinking that maybe I had started out wrong with Senn 800 and perhaps should have bought LCD3.  This line of reasoning brought me to the circular dilemma of well, do you buy the amp first and then go looking for cans or buy the cans and go looking for amp, or start all over somewhere in the middle and spend a lot more money being confused?
 
After awhile I was forced to notice (once again) that the source recording was what made the most difference, regular redbook CD or SACD:  There are some redbook CDs that sound incredible, much better than some SACDs: better engineering, miking and whatever.  Also a prominent factor is the synergy, whatever that really is, with one's own particular system, that is operating in the line; cables, impedence, whatever.  Some things, for whatever reason just sound better juxtaposed with some other things.  I don't do computer audio yet so I just do CDs and use an Oppo 95 and a Denon DVD-3930.  The Burr Brown chip in the Denon is a PCM 1796 vs. the 1792 in the HDVD800, and is a later and supposedly better design.  My HD800s sound incredible using the Denon and Creek.  Maybe I have reached audio nirvana already and just haven't realized it yet.  Maybe I don't have to spend any more money for perhaps 5% ? improvement.  Maybe I am just lucky feeling good in my ignorance of what anything more expensive out there would sound like if I went out an bought it.  If I bought the HDVD 800 I would probably use the 1796 in the Denon as DAC out into the amp anyway, but the only way to really know would be to spend $2000.
 
I think I shall temporarily forego a further disbursement of dollars and content myself with what I have.  To pursue the absolute sound ad infinitum or rest on laurels which sound quite good enough?  That is the question.   Where does it all end?  Well, for some people it never ends, but then that is the whole point of this forum, right?

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Yes and hdvd800. Is not the IM DONE amp.. It's really good, transparent but it's synergy with the hdvd800 is extreme clarity. So it's a far better amp with the lcd3. It needs a boost in high end anyway to get some some air in it.

But alas there is that search that you maybe have locked up FOR NOW,,,,,,!!

Al

 

[StanD]

Regarding Amps in genereal: When does distortion reach a lowpoint where a human being can no longer tell the difference? How loud can you listen to and how much headroom do you really need, especially considering the type of music that you listen to and how it was actually recorded (DR)? Once you can drive your cans properly and have a low enough impedance and damping ratio, do you need any more of this? If all of these properties are in order and the FR is flat how is that some hear an FR different from others using the same equipment?
If one can honestly answer these questions they might realize that there are many great amplifiers, many of which doesn't cost an arm and a leg and that you really can't hear the difference. There is much voodoo and imagination when it comes to what we think that we hear. Just say'in.

 

[ALRAINBOW]

And there is some points you made that are true. Having said that all amps have a sound of there own, and so all of what you stated above doe sent matter then. Given the amp has reasonable specs,. So in the end the spec,s tell you almost nothing you really need. I did think like you , but when I purchased some great equipment and heard the sounds become so dramatic to me . Wow I changed my mind

Al. D

 

[palmfish]

If an amp has a "sound of its own" then what you are hearing is distortion.

 

[StanD]

And there is some points you made that are true. Having said that all amps have a sound of there own, and so all of what you stated above doe sent matter then. Given the amp has reasonable specs,. So in the end the spec,s tell you almost nothing you really need. I did think like you , but when I purchased some great equipment and heard the sounds become so dramatic to me . Wow I changed my mind

Al. D

So what is the exact thing that made one amp sound better than another? No magic please. The same science that brings us headphones and all of the trappings is precise, there is nothing mystical. Most of the "magic" is in the headphones and the acoustical connection to our individual heads, That is not magic either but less predictible due to our individualities, just much more difficut to design for.

 

[StanD]

If an amp has a "sound of its own" then what you are hearing is distortion.

Either that or the FR is wrong or someone has an overactive imagination. Or all of the above.

 

[ALRAINBOW]

It's is complex and way beyond my understanding. But I can give you food for thought. Tubes sound different too.

Same model made by different company .
So there is no smoke no mirrors but there is change . I guess distortion is a way of expressing it .

But if the measured distortion is already low like .01. Or less you cannot hear it . I have read that you cannot hear anything below 3 %. So you cannot measure it but you do hear it.

Al

 

[ALRAINBOW]

You can believe what you wish I am being nice and trying to explain something. You people are in denial in this .

Read some amp reviews and educate your self. I'm done trying to explain to you .

Al

 

[StanD]

It's is complex and way beyond my understanding. But I can give you food for thought. Tubes sound different too.

Same model made by different company .
So there is no smoke no mirrors but there is change . I guess distortion is a way of expressing it .

But if the measured distortion is already low like .01. Or less you cannot hear it . I have read that you cannot hear anything below 3 %. So you cannot measure it but you do hear it.

Al

No, you can measure it but not hear it. What does "So you cannot measure it but you do hear it," mean?

 

[StanD]

You can believe what you wish I am being nice and trying to explain something. You people are in denial in this .

Read some amp reviews and educate your self. I'm done trying to explain to you .

Al

And what is it that you are explaining? I'm not into magic. Reading reviews by people with overactive imaginations or vested interests is less than amusing.

 

[palmfish]

You can believe what you wish I am being nice and trying to explain something. You people are in denial in this .

Read some amp reviews and educate your self. I'm done trying to explain to you .

Al

"An electronic amplifier, amplifier, or (informally) amp is an electronic device that increases the power of a signal. It does this by taking energy from a power supply and controlling the output to match the input signal shape but with a larger amplitude. In this sense, an amplifier modulates the output of the power supply."

In other words, an amp makes the original source louder but does not change the "tone" in any way. Therefore, if an amp sounds "different" then that means it is "distorting" the original signal. Distortion isnt necessarily a bad thing, so long as you know what you are getting. If you find the distortion pleasing, then thats fine, but it makes more sense to have an amp with no distortion and use equalization of some kind to make it sound the way you like it.

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Ok stop I'm wrong ok. I cannot believe how close minded you people are. Go away or better yet I will by!!! But you people are just uneducated on the topic.
Al

 

[StanD]

You can believe what you wish I am being nice and trying to explain something. You people are in denial in this .

Read some amp reviews and educate your self. I'm done trying to explain to you .

Al

 
 

"An electronic amplifier, amplifier, or (informally) amp is an electronic device that increases the power of a signal. It does this by taking energy from a power supply and controlling the output to match the input signal shape but with a larger amplitude. In this sense, an amplifier modulates the output of the power supply."

In other words, an amp makes the original source louder but does not change the "tone" in any way. Therefore, if an amp sounds "different" then that means it is "distorting" the original signal. Distortion isnt necessarily a bad thing, so long as you know what you are getting. If you find the distortion pleasing, then thats fine, but it makes more sense to have an amp with no distortion and use equalization of some kind to make it sound the way you like it.

Spot on, there's no denial in what you said. Sounds educated to me.

 

[StanD]

Ok stop I'm wrong ok. I cannot believe how close minded you people are. Go away or better yet I will by!!! But you people are just uneducated on the topic.
Al

Close minded, nope, educated - yes. You could not explain your position, only get angry. In any case this is a hobby and anyone can get whatever stuff they want, roll tubes or whatever gives them joy. Peace.