[MacedonianHero]

  First, I want to make it clear that I think our disagreement is so small and anal it probably isn't worth all the effort either of us are putting into it. Yet, because you asked I will try to make my point as simply as possible. 
 
Your point, as stated several times, is that there is no difference in imaging between the HD800 and S. Yet now in the quote above you have clearly changed your view to there is a difference in imaging which is the HD800 (read the parts I put in bold). @JaZZ was also making the point that the HD800 appear to image better, but that is due to the treble peak. I do think he was saying that he doesn't hear that extra sharpened imaging on his modded eq'd HD800 and I also don't hear it on the modded eq'd HD800's that I have heard nor on the S. So if that is your position then we have no disagreement anymore, since you seem to have abandoned your previous statement. But you can't both say their is no difference in imaging between S and classic and that there is. Well I guess you can say whatever you want, but those two positions seem in my limited intellectual capacity to be mutually exclusive.
 
Read my review carefully ( i know it boring to read other people's thoughts carefully, I have that problem too sometimes, but I really tried to read what you have said here very carefully) and you will see I keep saying the more natural representation of the recording can be found in the HD800. 
 
Anyway, maybe we can drop it since we both agree the S is better than the classic for 98% of the same reasons. I just think there is a small difference in how S and classic image and you don't, except when you do. Or something. My head is literally beginning to spin. Or maybe that has been my problem all along, I am just really dizzy and can't think or hear straight. You decide.  

 
I agree that it is a very small disagreement as both are more alike thank different. Please don't confuse "sharper" with sound stage...they are not the same to me (I think what you are referring to is instrumental separation???). One is expansiveness and openness and the other is more treble presence that gives the illusion of a sharper sound. And as JaZZ eloquently mentioned, that is NOT on the recording and indeed a colouration of the originals. And that is what "reference" should be about...listening to what's on the recording. I'm not saying the HD800S headphones are perfect, but they do take a step in the right direction over their predecessors.
 

  Well, you may be right. But that seems kind of silly. Most of head-fi is devoted to discussing perceived diffs. What's the point of someone recommending certain headphone that sounds like it images worse than some other headphone but those differences lie only in perception?
But let's rewind:
First there was the guy that said after listening to classic and S he preferred the imaging of the classic and so that is what he bought. Then MH said he didn't understand why some people hear a difference because he did not. 
 
Here is another place
For example:
 
From this post:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/21825#post_12288045
 
 
 
but I am 

 

I stand by this...the imaging (left to right and front to back) is unchanged as the location of each player in that sound stage. The illusion of a harder leading edge on the upper frequencies due to the 6kHz resonance can make the HD800's sound "sharper", but in the end, this, as mentioned, is not on the recording, nor is it welcome to my ears as it often leads to listener fatigue in the long run. So I can't understand how this is more "reference" when it is adding to a recording things that just aren't there...nor does it sound more natural (because it simply goes the opposite direction).
 
And for the record, while the HD800S is not as bright as the HD800, they are still both "brighter" sounding headphones.

 

[shabta]

Alright @MacedonianHero  let's agree to disagree on this small divergence of opinion. I don't think I am confusing anything and still stand by what I said too. Especially the part about being very dizzy. excuse me while I fall off my chair.

 

[dharma]

Actually, it is possible to analyze in details different signals (sinus, square etc), impulses, distortion etc. in the upper part of both... I think, that Sennheiser has done it all, plus something... and results? At least I don't have this 'inner' information.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Alright @MacedonianHero
  let's agree to disagree on this small divergence of opinion. I don't think I am confusing anything and still stand by what I said too. Especially the part about being very dizzy. excuse me while I fall off my chair.

I'm happy to agree to disagree here and I'm in agreement that the differences we're talking about are small. But like you, I'm sticking with my impressions too.

The one thing I am starting to consider is upstream gear and it's affect on both versions.

 

[martyn73]

Has anyone noticed any sibilance with the HD800S? I have a pair of HD650 headphones which are quite dark / warm with my Chord Mojo, but I detest sibilance (an excessively emphasised 'sss' sound) which seems to aggravate my tinnitus. The new HD800S look good and may perhaps replace my Stax SRM-006T / SR-404 set. The much reported treble peak deterred me from buying the HD800. In my experience the HD700 had a terrible treble peak too so any progress by Sennheiser is good news. I'm hoping for an extended bass without the HD650's 'veil' and the Stax's clear and unintrusive 
 
Unfortunately, there's nowhere around East Sussex, UK, with HD800S headphones to demo. Has anyone replaced their HD650 headphones with an HD800S or are they chalk and cheese?
 
Thanks,
 
Martyn

 

[musicbuff]

Quote:

   
Now it's going strange/interesting, there was never so big differences between 'oldest' HD800 units

 
 

   
See this is what I find so odd. I posted my HD800 28xxx headphones a few posts up and I actually have a slight dip as pointed out by another poster at 6kHz and you have a peak. So what on Earth to make of that?   Either the measurements are severely flawed and don't represent actual listening, or there is such a range of variations between individual units, in which case if one took the HD800S mod and applied it to my HD800 drivers, that it might actually lack enough treble energy and be too "warm".

My serial number is 34XXX. I bought my classic December 2014.  Does your 800 have spikes you can hear that bother you at times? Mine does, not so much with instruments but with male and female voices mostly.  Jazz, instrumental soundtracks, acoustic instrument music all sound fantastic.  Add a guest vocalist and fantastic can turn to a sibilant or strident recording. My 800 is modded and I have a Violectric V281 HP amp that helps tame a lot of spiking, but it's still there at times.

 

[sheldaze]

  Has anyone noticed any sibilance with the HD800S? I have a pair of HD650 headphones which are quite dark / warm with my Chord Mojo, but I detest sibilance (an excessively emphasised 'sss' sound) which seems to aggravate my tinnitus. The new HD800S look good and may perhaps replace my Stax SRM-006T / SR-404 set. The much reported treble peak deterred me from buying the HD800. In my experience the HD700 had a terrible treble peak too so any progress by Sennheiser is good news. I'm hoping for an extended bass without the HD650's 'veil' and the Stax's clear and unintrusive 
 
Unfortunately, there's nowhere around East Sussex, UK, with HD800S headphones to demo. Has anyone replaced their HD650 headphones with an HD800S or are they chalk and cheese?
 
Thanks,
 
Martyn

I too like my HD650 on my Chord Mojo. And regardless of the positive reviews, I detested it on my HD800.
I will take on your test and try Mojo w/ HD 800 S. Though I have no plans to sell my HD650 anytime soon.

 

[CoLdAsSauLt]

Has anyone noticed any sibilance with the HD800S? I have a pair of HD650 headphones which are quite dark / warm with my Chord Mojo, but I detest sibilance (an excessively emphasised 'sss' sound) which seems to aggravate my tinnitus. The new HD800S look good and may perhaps replace my Stax SRM-006T / SR-404 set. The much reported treble peak deterred me from buying the HD800. In my experience the HD700 had a terrible treble peak too so any progress by Sennheiser is good news. I'm hoping for an extended bass without the HD650's 'veil' and the Stax's clear and unintrusive 

Unfortunately, there's nowhere around East Sussex, UK, with HD800S headphones to demo. Has anyone replaced their HD650 headphones with an HD800S or are they chalk and cheese?

Thanks,

Martyn

- I have heard sibilance... tried listening to Falco e.g. Then again, it's far less than my former HD800 classic. It didn't make me want to stop listening. So less obviously sibilant, but also less frequently. Sibilance is rather the exception than the rule now. And sometimes it's just there in the recording that's mastered really hot. This shows on many other headphones too in those cases. If you're really sensitive to that, you probably prefer headphones that also mask these cases to some extent, be it at the cost of some faithfulness to real life sound. But enjoying your music (to me at least) shoud be your first priority, so in your case I'd take that compromise any day.

- I own a new HD650, which is not as veiled or dark sounding as the older version. I think there is still a big gap in tonality between the HD800 S and my HD650 (let alone yours). I do think it actually slightly masks some sibilance for instance, even when it's there. But since I still own it (even bought it later than my HD800 classic), I actually desire this effect in some cases or mindset. Digital television is often mastered very hot here, so it can grant me a far more relaxed TV-night

 

[dharma]

   
 
My serial number is 34XXX. I bought my classic December 2014.  Does your 800 have spikes you can hear that bother you at times? Mine does, not so much with instruments but with male and female voices mostly.  Jazz, instrumental soundtracks, acoustic instrument music all sound fantastic.  Add a guest vocalist and fantastic can turn to a sibilant or strident recording. My 800 is modded and I have a Violectric V281 HP amp that helps tame a lot of spiking, but it's still there at times.

 
Thanks for asking... Your amp is one of the best possible for HD800.
Sure I have 'ss'-ing too, if it is on recordings (lot of 'contemporary popular music' are dynamically heavily compressed during mix'ings), but In 'classic music' recordings rarely.
 
Actually I'm wrong person to ask, maybe I just don't care 'ss'-ing or tolerate it well or my hearing is somehow masking '6khz' or... whatever. Secondly, I use HD800 (05XXX) also for mixing of human voice recordings (audio/video), along with AKG K701(Austria)... and these hp's are good for this.
If You are sensitive to 6Khz area, then go for HD800S (balanced, if You like) if possible.

 

[TonyNewman]

... it's far less than my former HD800 classic. It didn't make me want to stop listening. So less obviously sibilant, but also less frequently. Sibilance is rather the exception than the rule now....

 
+1. Found the same thing HD800C vs HD800S using my V281 amp.

 

[CoLdAsSauLt]

Secondly, I use HD800 (05XXX) also for mixing of human voice recordings (audio/video), along with AKG K701(Austria)... and these hp's are good for this.
If You are sensitive to 6Khz area, then go for HD800S (balanced, if You like) if possible.

About "reference" (and HD800 classic vs HD800 S), I said the following in the HD800 S impressions thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/795365/sennheiser-hd800-s-impressions-thread-read-first-post-for-summary/135#post_12307437

 

[dharma]

There are some good instruments to test person abilities to tolerate(by hearing or nervous system) 'sharp' sounds, like 'ancient' or 'Middle-Age' harps or 'Finnish kantele' variants...
'Home made' test is scratching with finger-needles some plastic or other material 'soundboards'... some persons are just 'going crazy' during those 'high-pitch' scratching sounds and others almost don't react to these... Hello there is no HD800 at these used, but results are same.
'NO' HD800 or Beyer T1 (vers1) and 880 for these persons, for sure!

 

[sheldaze]

  There are some good instruments to test person abilities to tolerate(by hearing or nervous system) 'sharp' sounds, like 'ancient' or 'Middle-Age' harps or 'Finnish kantele' variants...
'Home made' test is scratching with finger-needles some plastic or other material 'soundboards'... some persons are just 'going crazy' during those 'high-pitch' scratching sounds and others almost don't react to these... Hello there is no HD800 at these used, but results are same.
'NO' HD800 or Beyer T1 (vers1) and 880 for these persons, for sure!

I hate when people rub their fingers against napkins - does that not bother anyone else?
It truly bothers me - like they cannot hear it or something.

 

[dharma]

  I hate when people rub their fingers against napkins - does that not bother anyone else?
It truly bothers me - like they cannot hear it or something.

 
Good/bad test, too

 

[ubs28]

I too like my HD650 on my Chord Mojo. And regardless of the positive reviews, I detested it on my HD800.
I will take on your test and try Mojo w/ HD 800 S. Though I have no plans to sell my HD650 anytime soon.

The mojo and HD 800 S isn't good according to my ears. The Chord Hugo sounds much better. Likewise with the HD 650.

The mojo should in my opinion should only be used while travelling.