[fjrabon]

Would the HD650 be a decent alternative or are they similar to the HD700's in sound other than the treble? As appealing as the Hifiman's look, the 650's are also pretty compelling because of the lower price and all the replaceable parts.

The HD650 are much superior to the HD700, IMHO. biggest issue is that the HE400i will be pretty good when your amp isn't available. The HD650 will basically require you always use your amp.

 

[SeaWo|f]

The HD700 is superior from most technical standpoints, but the treble is polarizing for people, most that like headphone are not surprisingly running it off an OLT tube amp which can do a lot to tame the 700s treble.

I like the sound of my 650s even more do off of a good solid state amp than a tube one. I have heard the 700 on hybrid amps didn't like it but i would like to hear it on say the crack.

 

[mysticstryk]

   
The HD 650 has far less FR problems than the HD 700. If I had to pick one without equalizing it and so on, I'd go for the HD 650. (I owned it in the past too.)
 
The HD 700 is like Icarus (from Greek mythology) attaining a higher level of greatness (in some respects), but then flying too close to the sun and falling...whereas the HD 650 is like a more well-rounded (and grounded) person watching the scenario unfold and saying, "Dude, what are you doing?"

 
^ Lol this is great, love the analogy.
 
@OP 
 
I own both the hd650 and 400i and prefer the later in most respects.  The thing the hd650s get over the 400i is that beautiful midrange.

 

[Blonigan16]

   
^ Lol this is great, love the analogy.
 
@OP 
 
I own both the hd650 and 400i and prefer the later in most respects.  The thing the hd650s get over the 400i is that beautiful midrange.

Would you recommend the 400i then for more bassy applications like electronic music? 

 

[fjrabon]

  Would you recommend the 400i then for more bassy applications like electronic music? 

having owned them both, the big difference is speed, as both are powerful enough in the bass and smooth enough in the treble.  The HE400i is faster, while the HD650 is more relaxed.

 

[Blonigan16]

HE400i's dropped to 300 on amazon, so I bought a pair of them. Thanks for the help everyone! Now it's time to start figuring out what to amp the headphones with.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  HE400i's dropped to 300 on amazon, so I bought a pair of them. Thanks for the help everyone! Now it's time to start figuring out what to amp the headphones with.

 
Here are the power requirements to aid you in your journey:
 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 

[Mr Rick]

  HE400i's dropped to 300 on amazon, so I bought a pair of them. Thanks for the help everyone! Now it's time to start figuring out what to amp the headphones with.

Some helpful info.
 
http://www.audiobot9000.com/hifiman/h/he-400i

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Some helpful info.
 
http://www.audiobot9000.com/hifiman/h/he-400i

 
That site posts inaccurate data. From the about page:
 

Planar magnetic headphones are generally harder to drive than their dynamic counterparts. To be conservative, a multiplier of 1.5X has been applied, meaning they will require 1.5 times more power to drive. As newer and more efficient planars are released, this multiplier may be unnecessary and removed in the future.

 
The part in bold is absolutely false. They follow the same formula as other headphones. It's simple engineering and mathematics.
 
Refer to my post above for accurate data.
 
And to learn more about driving headphones, visit the following links:
 
http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=1285

 

[MWSVette]

I have both the HD700 and more recently the HE-400i.  
 
I bought the HE-400i on a amazon warehouse deal for $250.00 on a whim and find myself really enjoying them.  
 
I found out they have the same connectors as my HD700 so I could use my Moon Audio Silver Dragons instead of the stock cable.  I found the stock cable a little short and stiff.
 
For the recent sale price of $299.00 the HE-400i is a great value.  At the retail price of $499.00 I would consider the HD700 at around the same price the better value.  IMHO the HD700 is better in most areas except bass were the HE-400i has the edge. 
 
While the HD700 has many detractors I find them to be a fantastic pair of mid-fi headphones.
 
If I could only have one I would choose the HD700.  However its nice to have both...

 

[fjrabon]

   
That site posts inaccurate data. From the about page:
 
 
The part in bold is absolutely false. They follow the same formula as other headphones. It's simple engineering and mathematics.
 
Refer to my post above for accurate data.
 
And to learn more about driving headphones, visit the following links:
 
http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=1285

it's sort of right and sort of wrong.  A lot of planars simply have their impedance labeled wrong, or maybe there are two different ways to measure it on planars (I don't really get what the two ways are, but was told this by a rep when I asked why so many planars measured different from their spec sheet impedance).  Tyll, for example, finds most of the HiFiMan headphones to have output impedances in the 50s, even when they're listed as the high 30s.  The HE500 is noticeably harder to drive than its listed output impedance and sensitivity would otherwise indicate.  It's listed at 38 ohms, but Tyll measured it at 54 ohms.  If you go by Tyll's measurements, the multiplier may not be necessary.  But with the specs that many, if not most manufacturers use, the multiplier is often necessary.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  it's sort of right and sort of wrong.  A lot of planars simply have their impedance labeled wrong, or maybe there are two different ways to measure it on planars (I don't really get what the two ways are, but was told this by a rep when I asked why so many planars measured different from their spec sheet impedance).  Tyll, for example, finds most of the HiFiMan headphones to have output impedances in the 50s, even when they're listed as the high 30s.  The HE500 is noticeably harder to drive than its listed output impedance and sensitivity would otherwise indicate.  It's listed at 38 ohms, but Tyll measured it at 54 ohms.  If you go by Tyll's measurements, the multiplier may not be necessary.  But with the specs that many, if not most manufacturers use, the multiplier is often necessary.

 
Good point. Sometimes the listed specs are not the actual specs. But once you have the right specs, they all follow the same formula for determining the power requirements.

 

[Gilles Dac]

HD 700 pierced trebles are perfectly adjusted with Norsosts upgrade-cable. AND they're most comfy phones in the world! I prefer tube/Dac-amp or hybrid tube amp. The treable can be adjusted with better tubes as well. I think they're brilliant compared to 400i. They're to kind. If you like Electronical Music check out the 12" eps from the absolutely incredibly skilled pair of Norwegian people. Personally I think heir main albums are to "kind" produced, especially when compared to 7 & 12" productions! People are chanting about Daft Punk at this forum. It's totally impossible to obtain a nice creative sound picture listening to tragical productions of bad Electronical music regardless tubes, dacs, preamps, dsd-files and £4000 headphones. Buy Aphex Twin Selected Ambiemt works 85-92 by the king of Techno:Electronical music: Richard D. James. Also published lots of brilliant music under the pseudonyms AFX, Caustic Window, Polygon Window (Surfing on Sine Waves LP & Quath EP). Then you can determine if your 50 pairs of headsets are anything to car about! Time Magazine rated him as the 37tj most influential person whithin Technology in the late 90's. Daft Punk is sounds he was capable of putting together during sleep stage four in his early teens (on self-produced equipment),
Not a mystery that you can't distinguish between all your phones when Daft Punk have made the crap your using as test material = hahaha! It's not a matter of taste - it's a matter of class!

 

[Gilles Dac]

Well: first of all: throw Daft Punk in the Junk! Second (top tips from audiophile Norwegian Philosopher = I & I): obtain Patashnik by BIOSPHERE (Geir Jensen - recorded in 1995 at "Origo Studio". An amazing ambient L.P.
2) start to Listen to Röyksopp's 12" EP's (or Lossless @ TIDAL.
"It's typical Norwegian to be best"

NORSOST have finally come with a cheaper series upgrade-cables for selected headset. I think it's "Blue Heaven" from their by far cheapest line "Leif". If I don't remember wrong they're ALMOST ½ the price of their original upgrade line. In my opinion a very wise step by the American Comp. with product names and sophistication from Norwegian mythology/Norrön Mythology. I'm mr. Cable Guy, but unfortunately it is a question of money for some customers. And a cable costing 4 x the phones might be way pricey of you want upgrade lots of different models...

 

[RenZixx]

What people do not understand is that there are lot of reflection's in the housing because of those pads, those pads have pleather under them which is the main reason for that terrible treble spike. You can either use some other after market pads like Dekoni pads or you can get a mod kit from mod house audio that is dirt cheap (like no joke). Once this mod is done they are more toward the hd6x0 sound (not quite but close) and you can also refer to DMS3 TV's video on the HD700 mod for further modding.