[Sjonnie]

My setup:
PC
Soundcard = theatron DD (crap I think, it costs me 40 euros 1 year ago)
Little Dot MKIII
Sennheiser 650

I only listen music through my PC.




Now I have been lurking on these forums for quite some time, and decided the time was right to buy the little dot mkIII and the 650 phones. It sounds great so far, although I have nothing to compare with. I could compare it to my "gaming headset" that I bought not long ago for 200 euros, but those were a total joke, it felt like I was scammed. Through my dissapointed I researched some more why "gaming" headsets were teh suck and now I am enjoying a lot more with the low budget setup (MKIII + 650) I got now.

Now I am a little confused here, do I need a DAC or not? I also game but I dont mind switching to a DAC when i listen music, and switch back to my soundcard when I game.

I also dont understand (no offense

) why there isnt a large sticky for noobs for the most basic stuff. I seriously had to google my ass of what a DAC is, what it does, and when and why to get it (and things arent still clear today for me). PreAmps, sonar asus card doesnt need an amp etc. All very confusing. Ok Ill stop with the noobwhining,

So should I get a DAC or not with this setup?
my budget is 150 euros.

 

[flatmap]

Well, a standalone DAC is not absolutely necessary as you already have a soundcard installed, but I think you'll notice a positive difference. The sound card is itself a DAC (Digital to Audio Converter) plus an analog amplifier on a convenient plug-in board.

Basically you'd be replacing your sound board by the combination of your new standalong DAC plus your Little Dot Amp. This approach allows you to improve both components, DAC + Amp, independently. If you get a DAC you'll no longer need your soundcard, except as a matter of convenience. You can use the sound output through your DAC for both your music and games, no problem.

So is it a worthwhile step up -- given your budget of 150 euros? Well this is one of those unanswerable questions. My experience going from my built in (laptop) sound card to a Total bithead is that is was clearly worthwhile. For myself, as soon as I made that step, i knew I wanted an even better DAC. Just so you know.

One benefit that you should notice is that a separate DAC is in a position to be less noisy and therefore you can listen longer without fatigue. That's how it was for me. But also music is probably going to be more clear and more 'full sounding'. If you're not already playing full resolution music files (flac, wav, aif), this route may also get you make you more interested in doing so.

Good luck.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjonnie /img/forum/go_quote.gif My setup: PC Soundcard = theatron DD (crap I think, it costs me 40 euros 1 year ago) Little Dot MKIII Sennheiser 650 I only listen music through my PC. Now I have been lurking on these forums for quite some time, and decided the time was right to buy the little dot mkIII and the 650 phones. It sounds great so far, although I have nothing to compare with. I could compare it to my "gaming headset" that I bought not long ago for 200 euros, but those were a total joke, it felt like I was scammed. Through my dissapointed I researched some more why "gaming" headsets were teh suck and now I am enjoying a lot more with the low budget setup (MKIII + 650) I got now. Now I am a little confused here, do I need a DAC or not? I also game but I dont mind switching to a DAC when i listen music, and switch back to my soundcard when I game. I also dont understand (no offense ) why there isnt a large sticky for noobs for the most basic stuff. I seriously had to google my ass of what a DAC is, what it does, and when and why to get it (and things arent still clear today for me). PreAmps, sonar asus card doesnt need an amp etc. All very confusing. Ok Ill stop with the noobwhining, So should I get a DAC or not with this setup? my budget is 150 euros.

I would say yes. Regardless of your sound card, it is under a rather harsh environment in your computer. A whole lot of RF interference with the DVD player, hard drive, etc... And the DACs in most sound cards are also pretty cheap.

I would recommend starting with a Hotaudio DAC Straight. It's a USB DAC and uses a pretty good chip (Burr Brown PCM2702). It's well built and for the price can't be beat. Next up would be the Pico DAC only.

Cheers,

 

[Sjonnie]

Its also fine to play games with a DAC? I thought it was only good for music, since it turns 5.1 sound into stereo. Or am I being ignorant?...

 

[flatmap]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjonnie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its also fine to play games with a DAC? I thought it was only good for music, since it turns 5.1 sound into stereo. Or am I being ignorant?...

A DAC + Amp will replace your current soundcard. Looking at it this way, it will do exactly what your soundcard is doing now .... but hopefully better!

 

[Ninkul]

Basically...

Source (Mp3s/whatnot) -> DAC (Digital to Analoge Converter) -> Amplifier -> Headphone

The broader term for a DAC can include sound cards. Its merely a device that converts digital signals (mp3s) into analoge signals (audio). A good sound card will give a standalone DAC a run for its money however there are better DACs in the lower bracket price range than sound cards (generally).

An amplifier will amplify the signal, giving you the option of multiple volumes. Sound cards have this built in (usually not that great). For your HD650s, a fairly powerful amplifier is recommended since your headphones are not easy to drive. Any amplifier will work, however you will notice that more powerful ones will sound significantly better (eg. my portable amp vs my full sized amp. My full sized one sound FAR better).

I'd say possibly try a AMP/DAC combo. Maybe Head-Direct EF2?

 

[Henry Flower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkul /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd say possibly try a AMP/DAC combo. Maybe Head-Direct EF2?

Er, he already has a pretty good amp. A combo would be at best a waste of money, and probably a step down.

 

[Sorry About Your Wallet]

i would say yes invest in a DAC. The Keces 151 mk2 is a great dac, also the Pico Dac is great. I've had the chance to test out both, the Pico is a little more expensive, around 300 i believe, while the keces is around 240-250 shipped. There isn't much of a difference but the Pico does sound SLIGHTLY better, but both go very well with the little dot and your senn 650s. If you look at my set up, i own the keces myself, and it's served its purpose VERY well.

 

[aeewee]

Sorry if i hijack the thread, but is a dac that nessecary? I have a Samsung S3 mp3 player and a ipod touch. Wouldn't it be fine if I connect either one of those to my amplifier than headphones without a dac?

 

[adrift]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjonnie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its also fine to play games with a DAC? I thought it was only good for music, since it turns 5.1 sound into stereo. Or am I being ignorant?...

Okay, I'm hearing a lot of decent advice, but I'm not sure any of it is actually answering your question.

As far as 5.1 surround sound and stereo goes, an external DAC isn't going to be doing anything different from what your internal sound card is going to do... that is, its not going to make 5.1 surround sound into stereo or vice versa.

Of course, you'll only appreciate 5.1 surround sound properly if you have a 5.1 surround sound speaker setup. Unless you have certain hardware or software goodies like Dolby Headphone or CMSS 3D you're not going to hear 5.1 surround sound like it should be heard through your HD650s.

It sounds to me that you want to use headphones to play games in 5.1 surround sound. If that's the case you probably want an aftermarket internal sound card that has Dolby Headphone or CMSS 3D built in. An external DAC (as far as I understand) is not going to be the answer in this case. There are some external sound cards that have these features, but from what I understand they don't sound quite as good as some of the better internal ones.

So, to answer your questions... Do you need a DAC? From what I understand No, I don't think you NEED a DAC. For what you're using it for, you probably want something like a Creative X-Fi or an ASUS Xonar. Can I get any back from anyone around here who has more experience?

 

[adrift]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeewee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry if i hijack the thread, but is a dac that nessecary? I have a Samsung S3 mp3 player and a ipod touch. Wouldn't it be fine if I connect either one of those to my amplifier than headphones without a dac?

I don't see why not.

 

[flatmap]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeewee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry if i hijack the thread, but is a dac that nessecary? I have a Samsung S3 mp3 player and a ipod touch. Wouldn't it be fine if I connect either one of those to my amplifier than headphones without a dac?

Sure, this can be fine. Note that the Samsung and iPod both have built in DACs and that's what you're using when you listen to them directly via headphones or pipe the output into your amp.

So the question becomes, "if I buy an external DAC, will it better what I'm getting with the internal DACs used by these players?"

And I guess the answer is probably "yes" based on how much you pay and whether or not the player allows you to extract the digital signal before passing through it's own processing. I believe with the iPod you have to buy a separate device simply to extract the digital signal.

In the case of the computer, thankfully, you can get the digital signal via USB, Firewire, etc. depending on what interface is supported by the external DAC you might buy.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjonnie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its also fine to play games with a DAC? I thought it was only good for music, since it turns 5.1 sound into stereo. Or am I being ignorant?...

I don't get it...headphones are only in stereo...why do you care about 5.1?

If you want to then pump your computer to a 5.1 speaker setup, just unplug the usb amp.

 

[Arctia]

I don't know how good your current sound card is. But I had my Auzentech Prelude straight line out to my amp+headphone, and I can tell you the DAC on the sound card is on par with most $100-150 standalone DACs, if you can live with the computer inference.

However, I got Headroom's Ultra Micro DAC a week ago. So
Before: Prelude line out -> amp -> headphone
After: Prelude digital out -> DAC -> amp -> headphone

and OMG the sound just opened up. It was my second eargasm (first was upgrading from $5 earbuds to a real headphone). A good DAC will beat out every single sound card out there. But you really need to spend some good money to get that effect.

 

[Shike]

Most of the interference people are talking about is extremely hard to measure as is. The real question is the quality of the card. I'm guessing it's probably not that great and may cause issues like resampling and other unwanted things.

At this point an external DAC, or a substantial soundcard upgrade would definitely be a step in the right direction.