Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanBates
really... haven't heard the 650's myself, but from the majority of the reviews i've read, they're amazing headphones. Aren't you exaggerating a wee bit?
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Firstly, PLEASE read what my "badly ported bass" comment was referring to.
Secondly - audio is subjective, it's the whole point of this thread - a "review" for audio gear can often be as useful as a blind person recommending a painting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanBates
i don't see anyone on this thread who's trying to convince people that they have to like Senns. they're just pointing out the merits of their 'phones.
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Stick around for a bit longer, you'll see it happen often, and not just with the HD650 either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kush_
Who says?
Most people just say that a replacement cable noticeably changes the sound which you may or may not like.
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Oh,
most people do, do they?
You mean
most people who frequent the cable section at this forum which discourages naysayers rather strongly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kush_
don’t be stupid
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Oh sorry, was my exaggeration a little over the top? Well done for missing the point. Have a gold star
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kush_
I think the 650's sound good with average equipment, I really enjoy their sound with my Perreaux amp.
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Excellent, it's good you enjoy them! (no sarcasm here btw)
Again, however, you've missed my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kush_
Who ever said that? I think your delusional and have some serious 650 hatred in you.
I just find them more realistic sounding than most headphones I've heard.
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It was said, I paraphrased.
I found my old $50 Sony headphones to be the most realistic sounding headphones I'd heard once.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kush_
So you don’t like the 650 sound, get over it.
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So people don't like the HD650 sound, get over it.
Oh wait... didn't I already say that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kush_
I think your misinterpreting peoples comments. I don't think anyone is trying to convince anyone else that they have to like the 650 sound, but rather ways which might improve the 650 sound for them.
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"I really don't like the way this chicken tastes, can we "improve it" so it tastes more like beef?"
Uh.. howsabout buying beef in the first place?
My comments made here aren't simply in relation to this thread btw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kush_
You know... some of us really do enjoy the 650 sound.
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You know... some of us really don't enjoy the 650 sound.
wait.. are you with me or against me here, it's confusing
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanBates
none of the posters on this thread seem to be shoving down the HD650 down anyones throat. as for GS Ferrari's comments, it's certainly no worse than Kunwar basically saying that the HD650 is a piece of crap.
as many Grado 'fanboys' on this forum as there is Sennheiser
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I'd say most people arguing here are basing at least part of their argument on information, attitudes and opinions gathered outside this thread - from previous ones over the weeks/months/years most likely - not just comments made here in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
I don't think the HD 650 needs excuses. People just try to give advice how to handle it best. The HD 650 (like the HD 600, BTW) is no easy to drive headphone. Not because it is electrically demanding -- a common misconception --, but because of its unspectacular, relatively neutral characteristic with its focus on correctness instead of euphonic excitement. So it rather points out the weaknesses of the system than plastering them.
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While I agree with the general attitude of recommending the right gear to go with the right equipment, people tend to miss out on the most important fact - the right person.
The problem is people make a big round-the-world trip trying to make the HD650 suit everyone's tastes and THEN say "maybe the sound just isn't for you". The HD650 has such a distinct sound it should be easy for people to say "ok, this guy like an up front, lively and agressive sound.. the HD650 probably isn't for him" rather than trying to convince him to spend $3000 on other gear first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
You obviously haven't spent much serious time with the HD 650. It really changes its characteristic quite dramatically during the first 150 hours. This is confirmed by most owners. Of course you still have to like its specific sonic signature, but within this frame there's a lot of change from good to worse to better to excellent during this phase. «A few hours» is a bad joke.
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I have a pair that has been used for well over 200 hours.
I compared it to a pair out of the box.....
The differences were... minimal. They still sounded like the same headphone, but there were minor differences. Certainly not enough for me to say "omg it's revelation!" like some people claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
So you want natural and realistic sound?
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I never said that
I personally want a sound that I enjoy, it's about the music for me - not the equipment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
Then why is professional stage amplification equipment your reference? Your so-called «live concerts» are in fact reproductions through all that Shure, EV, HH, Marshall, Orange, Bose... snippety
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Perhaps aim this argument at the person who inferred that the HD650 was good because it was most like a real live performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
Everybody's ears are different. I think that's the best explanation for the huge differences in perception. Certainly generalizations and absolutizations such as yours aren't adequate.
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"yours" as in "those that furiously try to convince people to like the HD650s" - my generalisations were not "absolutizations" - they were exagerrations. I'm still surprised that so many people missed this
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
And nobody is talking people into buying Sennheisers. People are just trying to make others benefit from their own experiences with a headphone they are convinced of, for good reason.
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The only other headphone I see defended as zealously as the HD650 is the CD3k
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
That doesn't mean everybody has to like its sound.
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Correct!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
Still the perfect headphone doesn't exist. We have to live with various sorts of compromizes. And there should be one or the other implementation that fits the personal preferences. Some of them are only achievable by careful system matching (see first paragraph), and that's what Head-Fi discussions are really good for.
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Ah, but again when people think "oh, it can't POSSIBLY be the HD650, it must be something else" the original person who states they don't like the HD650 is then encouraged to take a rollercoaster ride of cable, amp, source, tinfoil hat and burnin upgrades. It's great for some businesses I guess, but it's not the way I run mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunwar
Why then do they not burn in the drivers before shipping them out if the sound is going to be so gr8 after hours and hours of music played through them? Wouldn't more and more people keep them if that happened?
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Exactly
Likewise the cable "upgrades", but that's flameage for another day.
For everyone's information - headphones do get a burnin before being shipped out, it's just not enough apparently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nierika
There are a number of people on the board with various brands of headphones that have personally heard improvements by replacing the stock cable with a DIY or aftermarket cable. It is convenient to be able to change the cable without having to use a soldering iron. The perceived increase in sound quality varies from person to person, but I don't think anyone would say that the headphone didn't sound good in the first place. I think this is more of an exaggeration on your part.
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This is an argument/flame war best taken outside
BTW - I'm glad you spotted my exaggeration, I'm surprised at how a few flamers haven't.
My exaggeration was deliberate - someone comments they don't like the HD650 sound, often they get responses saying "you really have to upgrade the cable before they sound good". My response is "send them back and buy a pair of headphones you DO like the sound of"
Quote:
Originally Posted by nierika
You run an online headphone store and you don't think burn-in affects headphones past a few hours!?
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Interesting, yes?
I've got boxes and boxes of headphones, I can leave a pair running non stop for weeks and instantly compare it to a new out of the box pair.
I regularly conduct (evil) experiments on my customers to see if they can hear a difference between a burntin pair and a non burntin pair. The results surprise the customers a fair bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nierika
News Flash: Certain headphones sound better with certain amplifiers over others!
I wasn't aware there was such a thing as an "exact right amp!"
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I, again, was exaggerating - but I've seen people say "oh, your *insert highly respected, but not top of the range amp here* is the problem, you need to buy something like *insert amp that costs 3x as much as users current amp here*" I regularly recommend people buy a good amp for their headphones because it's good advice, there are certain amps that do better than others. However, I'm sure when Sennheiser designed the HD650 they didn't do their listening tests with them hooked up to a $2000 headphone amp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nierika
I think it's a little hard to define "real music" on this board when the user base is listening to everything under the sun.
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Real as in live - not a particular genre
Please people, let it be known I don't -hate- the HD650s, as much as it might be the impression I'm putting across.
What I'm trying to say here, that most people have agreed with, is that regardless of how good they might be, not everyone is going to like the way certain gear sounds no matter what you try to do to polish it up.
I
respect the HD650, but I don't like the way they sound.
I can kind of understand why many people do like them, but I also very much dislike the "mystique" that surrounds them and somehow raises them up on a glowing pedestal surrounded by velvet rope while people point and stare and talk in hushed tones around them. To
most average people "Sennheiser" is the only name when it comes to "better than bad" headphones, the HD650 is the top of their consumer line, therefore it must be the best - THAT is what I disagree with. The preconception that's reinfoced by the fans.
As fans of whatever headphone, or whatever type of music you like you're going to have to accept that (just like food) some people think lobster is great and others would much prefer a nice steak.
To me the HD650s are lobster - I hate lobster! But I don't disrespect people who do like it, I don't try to convince them not to like it.
But you know what? People think I'm strange for not liking lobster too
