[Shahrose]

recently i made a post about how the hd650 compared to the dt990s and people were very helpful and active in their responses. it gave me a very good sense of the differences between the 2 cans. i want to get a similar comparison going here with the hd650 and the pl2500/pl750.

if anyone has owned or even just heard the hd650 and the ultrasone 750 OR the ultrasone 2500, i would like to know any differences you encountered between the senn and ultrasone. also please mention WHAT KIND OF MUSIC YOU WERE LISTENING TO. it's really important to mention what genre of music you tested.

any input will be appreciated. thanks in advance. i don't care which of the 2 prolines you have heard, i'm interested in the comparison of either of those 2 ultrasones to the senn hd650.

 

[Shahrose]

^

 

[MaloS]

Why do you want differences specifically between these 2 cans? I mean they are not even remotely alike, so it would be easier to describe what's similar between them if anything.

 

[vcoheda]

they're both headphones. and one is of top quality.

 

[Deathwish238]

haha, they're both great. I haven't heard either yet...but from my research the PROline 2500 is more similar to the DT990 than it is to the HD650. At the end of my headphone search I was completely torn between the 2500s and DT990s...I chose the DT990s and enjoy them.

A lot of people seem to have either love or hate the 2500s, that's the impression I got.

In general, the 2500s should be better with rock

 

[Shahrose]

i want to compare them in terms of bass quality and quantity (depth too), and if the prolines are indeed sibilant, especially compared to the hd650. is the soundstage different? or larger with one than the other. which one is more revealing etc.

i'm going to buying one of these 2 phones. i listen to mostly electronic, r&b/rap , acoustic, rock and then some pop/classical. in order of decreasing listening time.

my friends and especially my bro will also be using these, so that means....they must not distort or rattle at high volumes. these guys are pretty crazy, they listen to headphones louddddd. and they want bass. they want quality but also want high volumes. and i want the quality and decent volumes as well

hopefully that answers the "why" part of malos' question.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif they're both headphones. and one is of top quality.

hmm, i'm assuming you mean the hd650 are the top quality and not the prolines. why might i ask do you think that?

i haven't tried either so i'd be interested in hearing your comments.

 

[MaloS]

As a total side note - what's wrong with using DT990 for the purpose?

HD650 is softer in the treble, has more even mids, and much stronger bass. The Proline 2500 has more life-like bass to my ears, but it has sharp treble because of its purpose (it is not an audiophile headphone by design). Soundstage on HD650 is larger, but without very high fidelity source/amplification, Proline's soundstage is more coherent.

HD650 scales much better, but you would need an actual rig to show that, not what you have in your sig... (but according to your sig you are not giving dt990 justice either).

 

[vcoheda]

i just don't think the 2500 is a class headphone, unlike the 650. i only heard the 2500 at meets. it sounds okay. probably as good as the 650 on budget/medium grade gear, but anything better the 650 should win easily.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif i want to compare them in terms of bass quality and quantity (depth too), and if the prolines are indeed sibilant, especially compared to the hd650. is the soundstage different? or larger with one than the other. which one is more revealing etc. i'm going to buying one of these 2 phones. i listen to mostly electronic, r&b/rap , acoustic, rock and then some pop/classical. in order of decreasing listening time. my friends and especially my bro will also be using these, so that means....they must not distort or rattle at high volumes. these guys are pretty crazy, they listen to headphones louddddd. and they want bass. they want quality but also want high volumes. and i want the quality and decent volumes as well hopefully that answers the "why" part of malos' question.

For what you listen to, the Proline 2500 are the best choice. For Jazz trio, and Dianna Krall, and Classical and what not, the HD600/650 would be my choice.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

PS: to clarify - I feel like my Proline 2500 are a rock/rap/R&B/techno/electronic headphone (like my RS-2), and my STAX SR-Lambda and HD600 with APS V3 cable are for everything else smooth (although the RS-2 can cross-over).

Classical isn't bad on the 2500, but it isn't as accurate in tone as the HD600 APS V3 cable. I still think the 2500 is your type of phone. I've had mine for about 10 days, and they're growing on me.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif As a total side note - what's wrong with using DT990 for the purpose? HD650 is softer in the treble, has more even mids, and much stronger bass. The Proline 2500 has more life-like bass to my ears, but it has sharp treble because of its purpose (it is not an audiophile headphone by design). Soundstage on HD650 is larger, but without very high fidelity source/amplification, Proline's soundstage is more coherent. HD650 scales much better, but you would need an actual rig to show that, not what you have in your sig... (but according to your sig you are not giving dt990 justice either).

1) the 990s are great for bass, but at the volumes that i'm talking about, the left driver starts to rattle with very bassy passages.

2) this is where i'm confused, you say the hd650 has much stronger bass, then i see other posts saying the exact opposite, ie, the pl2500/750 have much stronger bass and more powerful/deep.

3) even though i think you're right in that the 990s can improve with a better setup, the fact of the matter is, i've tried them out of a lot more expensive rigs and tbh, they didn't sound that much better, it was too slight an improvement to warrant a change in my setup. perhaps i need to try a very warm amp suited to the beyers, but again changing an amp doesn't change the sound as much as changing a pair of headphones (after a certain point).

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif PS: to clarify - I feel like my Proline 2500 are a rock/rap/R&B/techno/electronic headphone (like my RS-2), and my STAX SR-Lambda and HD600 with APS V3 cable are for everything else smooth (although the RS-2 can cross-over). Classical isn't bad on the 2500, but it isn't as accurate in tone as the HD600 APS V3 cable. I still think the 2500 is your type of phone. I've had mine for about 10 days, and they're growing on me.

thx for the insight.

@malos: thx for the detailed comparison btw...here's why i was confused, an interesting review of the PL750: Ultrasone Proline 750 - Headphones Rock

"...where these headphones clearly beat it’s competition is in the bass department (as I mentioned earlier). The bass is simply phenomenal in that you can feel every level and every detail from the lower mid’s right down to the sub bass. Simply put, the Sennheiser HD650’s, AKG 701’s are clearly outperformed here. Even the Beyer DT-990’s cannot compete here. While this is clearly Ultrasone’s strength, it also seems to be the source of confusion and disagreement among headphone fanatics. Many people regard the bass as “muddy”, to full or “it drowns out the higher frequencies. These are claims that I completely disagree with, and feel this is a result of listening to headphones that only now I realize were thin and not accurate in reproducing the lower frequencies. "

and he also owns the hd650 and pl750 as well as many amps...i'm just hearing conflicting opinions so i don't know which one is right anymore.

 

[tot]

In my opinion PL750 has better bass than HD650. PL750 goes lower and is more detailed, I can hear bass guitar string picks with PL750 whereas with HD650 those details are lost into the noise. HD650 has more mid-bass though.

Mids are better and louder with HD650. PL750 has a bit U shaped frequency response which makes them ideal for lower level listening.

Treble, hmm, HD650 has not much, PL750 has lots, a bit too much at the beginning but either the continued break-in or me adjusting to the sound has made it quite nice.

The PL750 bass quality is quite sensitive to amping. With good amp it is tight and about right, whereas with lesser amp it is a bit muddy and sounds more like a subwoofer too loud that drowns everything else.

Both of them go loud (at least what I consider loud) without rattling or other annoyances.

HD650 is a better headphone overall, IMHO. I prefer PL750 for electronic/techno, HD650 for rock/pop and sonically similar stuff (I don't listen to R&B/rap or classical so I can't comment.)

 

[MaloS]

Well first of all... HD650 does not sound thin, oh sure as hell it does not. From multiple rigs I used/tried so far with hd650, I can easily come up with a way to make HD650 sound absolutely visceral, beaten only by L3000. The verdict for my personal tastes is - HD650 has too much bass.

What the difference in bass is (don't get it wrong here, HD650 can reach low just fine) is that Ultrasones are probably flatter in the bass region. That is...after wooping 400 hours of burn in.

I also have to admit - I disagree with the reviewer. Ultrasones are not neutral as required for studio use, but they are tuned for studio use often enough (out of the Proline series). In studio headphones are used for monitoring, so they are tuned with very strong treble in order to demonstrate any problems/clipping, and thus can be very bright. My Proline 2500 is probably around 800 hours and its treble is as settled as it will ever be, but it is not neutral in the high frequency region at all.

Don't get me wrong, Prolines have something to offer, it is worth a try, but after sufficient time with them you have to make a reality check and really think about it - what do they exactly do. Reviewer for example said that all other cans sound thin - poor generalization as I mentioned above.

In the end - careful with your decision here, if you want brighter headphone than dt990, go for Proline 2500, if not, I'd take a step back. Getting an HD650 and amping it might be a better idea.