RunsWithScissors
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2002
- Posts
- 349
- Likes
- 1
Hi Everyone,
This is my first post here and I've been lurking for quite a while doing research to find some cans for use mainly at work. I realize this topic has been covered already but I would like to add my impressions to the mix and hopefully return a little something to this community who has unknowingly helped me quite a bit. Sorry for the novella which follows...
Executive summary:
I compared the senn HD280PRO to the Beyer DT250-80. Both are closed designs and are capable of being driven without an amp from most sources. Perform a search and you'll come up with full specs if you wish. Both cans were purchased new with the intention of keeping only one for casual listening at work and at home. I'm not a DJ nor do I intend to create any mixes.
I ultimately liked the Beyers better and returned the Senns. If you care to know why - Abandon hope all ye who enter here...
I feel that it is important to state that I purchased the Senns based on my research on this forum, head-wize, headroom and outside reviews (google search turns up a few). I did not place the information I gathered in the proper context and I hope to remedy that in this post for others who are trying desparately to do so for themselves. What I mean by this is that while many reviews of the Senns actually stated that these cans were good for DJ'ing and mixing and were very 'analytical' and 'flat' I did not let this sink in thoroughly. While these are all qualities that may be desirable for a set of cans which are to be used for DJ'ing or mixing they may not lend themselves to allowing the casual listener to simply enjoy music - good and bad recordings and less than ideal sources must be factored in. Then again, they may be just what you are looking for in your headphones for the way you enjoy listening to music. Just keep this in mind as you read this and other posts.
The best advice I can give anyone (on this comparison or any other you read) is to try to place everything in context. It helped me to try to identify with the postors and find similarities in musical taste, sources, application, and if possible any other non-tangible preferences that are otherwise highly subjective and very personal. Use the info as a foundation and then go out and TRY them yourself. If you can't audition before buying, then buy from a vendor with a good return policy such as headroom.
You just have to try them for yourself to form your own opinion and see if they suit your needs. This is paramount with audio IMO so please take this info I present for what it's worth, my opinion alone. Anything said here is neither right nor wrong - it is my opinion and you are entitled to agree or disagree. I only hope that this helps some people in their own quest to find some headphones to suit their needs by identifying similarities between their needs and experiences and mine.
Getting down off my soap box here are my impressions of two headphones:
I set out to fill the following wish list:
pricepoint $100 or less
easily driven by portable, or computer soundcard without an amp
comfortable for extended periods
isolation - block outside sound and not disturb my neighbors in the cube farm
The last point on isolation came about as I was fortunate to be able to audition a friend's Grado SR-80. The Grado SR-60 and SR-80 were on my short list and the 80's sounded great to me but they leaked too much sound and did not block outside noise because they are an open design. This sound leakage ruled them out for my use at work. I had no real issues with comfort as have been raised here by some but this is highly subjective as is preference for the way any set of cans sound to you. Closed cans became a prerequisite but Grados may be in my future for use outside of work - nice cans.
After reading everything I could find here on numerous searches I came up with several cans to compare and choose between:
Senn HD280, Sony V6, and somewhat beyond my price range - Beyer DT250-80.
All posted information indicated that the Beyer's would be a good match for me but I could not overcome the $$$. This is my first set of decent cans and my sources are far from ideal so I did not want to break the bank.
I chose the Senn HD280 and found them on-line for $76USD so I bought them.
I burned them in for 50+ hours and listened to a wide variety of material including alternative rock, classic rock, classical, classical guitar, and jazz.
My sources included a portable (RioVolt with commercial CD and high quality MP3CDs), computer soundcards (Aureal and crappy Dell laptop soundcard - the worst source tested), Denon AVR-3300 home receiver. I did not have access to any amps so none were tested.
Sound:
The Senn HD280 were very detailed and analytical. The bass was not as deep as I would have liked even after burn-in. These cans really put details 'in your face' whether you want them or not. They reveal bad recordings and are not at all forgiving. They are pretty flat in their response on good recordings but again, they put every detail in your face. I found it very hard to get involved in the music and enjoy it. I found myself being drawn to details and imperfections and this ultimately detracted from my enjoyment with these cans. They would indeed be good for mixing but for my intended use they were not a good fit. This was compounded by the sources I used though good recordings with my Denon recvr were not as grating as the bad recordings it was still hard to relax with these cans.
The Beyer DT250-80 are another story. These cans are colored in their presentation and lean towards warmth (read bass). The bass was deep right out of the box and these cans like to rock. Many people have said that the highs are a bit rolled off. I mainly agree but would like to spin this by saying that the highs are definitely present but they are just not in your face like they were with the senns. There's plenty stated on this aspect of the DT250s so I won't beat a dead horse. Ultimately, I found the Beyers much more involving and enjoyable. They were a bit more forgiving with non-ideal recordings and had me toe-tapping and head-banging. I really *felt* bass with these cans and the mids and highs were quite pleasant.
Comfort:
This was the deal breaker where the Senns were concerned. I have a pretty average size/shape head and avg size/shape ears but the top headband on the Senns was extremely uncomfortable for me. After about half an hour I felt like someone had hit me with a ball-peen hammer on top of my head where the headband rests. I contemplated making some padding mods as MagicThyse described but decided it was not worth it. The earcups were very roomy (deep cups w/pleather pads) and the clamping force was kind of high (as in tight fit) but this could be alleviated by stretching the headband and probably contributed to the Senns excellent isolation. They blocked more sound than the Beyers and put you in your own little world at least in my office environment. I also could not hear my phone ring (not sure if that's good or bad
).
The Beyers were very comfortable to me. The headband was not a problem at all and the cloth/velour pads were nicer IMO than the Senns' pleather. It might be worth noting that while the pads were about the same size on each can, the Senns were deeper and the inner diameter was bigger so there was lots of room for my ears in the Senns. With the Beyers I could fit my ear inside the pad but it was a snug fit since the inner diam was much smaller. I've heard you can use Beyer pads on the Senns if anyone has an issue with the pleather or just prefers cloth. The Beyer's also did not clamp as tight on my head.
Build Quality:
The Senns gave me the impression that they were built better. Both cans are all plastic so take this for what it's worth...the fit and finish was clean on both but the Senns just felt more solid. They were also a bit bigger and heavier so perhaps that biased my opinion. Both cans seem durable and can take some abuse. Only time will tell for me. The Senns allow you to replace most of the parts including the cord but you need a screwdriver to do so, while the Beyers have a detachable cord with pin connector. The Senns' earcups rotate to lie flat and also allow you to monitor with one ear easily, while the Beyers' cups are fixed - one of the only things I don't like about the Beyers and wish they had this feature of the Senns. The Senns also fold but the final package is not appreciably smaller than unfolded.
Amp'd or un-Amp'd:
I only tested un-amp'd but did notice that the Beyers were harder to drive by both my portable and soundcard. My portable handles them and my work computer strains.
Final Result:
Keeping the Beyers sending the Senns back. I did not intend to spend as much as I did in buying the Beyers but after my experience with the Senns I had to make another purchaes. I am pleased with the Beyers and will probably have them for a while which should justify the expense (until my next upgrade but then you guys have no idea what I'm talking about do you
).
An amp is probably in my future - any suggestions for a good pairing with the Beyers?
Last words of advice - Don't buy some headphones just because someone tells you they sound the best (not even me
). Don't be too quick to assume that someone elses opinion is better than your own. Try to identify with someone making a recommendation to you that listens to similar music, has similar sources, is looking for the same things from their headphones as you are.
Many thanks to a long list of Head-Fi members who have helped me (I use 'he' and 'she' loosely as I don't "know" anyone here yet just the usernames):
Snufkin - "Stick a pair on your head, sit back, relax and enjoy the music - that's how the DT250s work "- best description/advice I found and his comments on the Beyers lead me there and I'm pretty happy
Flasken, meithkiller, elnero, Alan, delenda est Sony, and blr for reviews (that I found) and good info
Macdef, HighwayStar, Kelly, kwkarth, Audio&Me for great info and objectivity.
MagicThyse for opinions against hd280s and speaking his mind
I'm leaving out a bunch of people that helped me through their posts and of course thanks to Jude.
That's all I have to say about that
This is my first post here and I've been lurking for quite a while doing research to find some cans for use mainly at work. I realize this topic has been covered already but I would like to add my impressions to the mix and hopefully return a little something to this community who has unknowingly helped me quite a bit. Sorry for the novella which follows...
Executive summary:
I compared the senn HD280PRO to the Beyer DT250-80. Both are closed designs and are capable of being driven without an amp from most sources. Perform a search and you'll come up with full specs if you wish. Both cans were purchased new with the intention of keeping only one for casual listening at work and at home. I'm not a DJ nor do I intend to create any mixes.
I ultimately liked the Beyers better and returned the Senns. If you care to know why - Abandon hope all ye who enter here...
I feel that it is important to state that I purchased the Senns based on my research on this forum, head-wize, headroom and outside reviews (google search turns up a few). I did not place the information I gathered in the proper context and I hope to remedy that in this post for others who are trying desparately to do so for themselves. What I mean by this is that while many reviews of the Senns actually stated that these cans were good for DJ'ing and mixing and were very 'analytical' and 'flat' I did not let this sink in thoroughly. While these are all qualities that may be desirable for a set of cans which are to be used for DJ'ing or mixing they may not lend themselves to allowing the casual listener to simply enjoy music - good and bad recordings and less than ideal sources must be factored in. Then again, they may be just what you are looking for in your headphones for the way you enjoy listening to music. Just keep this in mind as you read this and other posts.
The best advice I can give anyone (on this comparison or any other you read) is to try to place everything in context. It helped me to try to identify with the postors and find similarities in musical taste, sources, application, and if possible any other non-tangible preferences that are otherwise highly subjective and very personal. Use the info as a foundation and then go out and TRY them yourself. If you can't audition before buying, then buy from a vendor with a good return policy such as headroom.
You just have to try them for yourself to form your own opinion and see if they suit your needs. This is paramount with audio IMO so please take this info I present for what it's worth, my opinion alone. Anything said here is neither right nor wrong - it is my opinion and you are entitled to agree or disagree. I only hope that this helps some people in their own quest to find some headphones to suit their needs by identifying similarities between their needs and experiences and mine.
Getting down off my soap box here are my impressions of two headphones:
I set out to fill the following wish list:
pricepoint $100 or less
easily driven by portable, or computer soundcard without an amp
comfortable for extended periods
isolation - block outside sound and not disturb my neighbors in the cube farm
The last point on isolation came about as I was fortunate to be able to audition a friend's Grado SR-80. The Grado SR-60 and SR-80 were on my short list and the 80's sounded great to me but they leaked too much sound and did not block outside noise because they are an open design. This sound leakage ruled them out for my use at work. I had no real issues with comfort as have been raised here by some but this is highly subjective as is preference for the way any set of cans sound to you. Closed cans became a prerequisite but Grados may be in my future for use outside of work - nice cans.
After reading everything I could find here on numerous searches I came up with several cans to compare and choose between:
Senn HD280, Sony V6, and somewhat beyond my price range - Beyer DT250-80.
All posted information indicated that the Beyer's would be a good match for me but I could not overcome the $$$. This is my first set of decent cans and my sources are far from ideal so I did not want to break the bank.
I chose the Senn HD280 and found them on-line for $76USD so I bought them.
I burned them in for 50+ hours and listened to a wide variety of material including alternative rock, classic rock, classical, classical guitar, and jazz.
My sources included a portable (RioVolt with commercial CD and high quality MP3CDs), computer soundcards (Aureal and crappy Dell laptop soundcard - the worst source tested), Denon AVR-3300 home receiver. I did not have access to any amps so none were tested.
Sound:
The Senn HD280 were very detailed and analytical. The bass was not as deep as I would have liked even after burn-in. These cans really put details 'in your face' whether you want them or not. They reveal bad recordings and are not at all forgiving. They are pretty flat in their response on good recordings but again, they put every detail in your face. I found it very hard to get involved in the music and enjoy it. I found myself being drawn to details and imperfections and this ultimately detracted from my enjoyment with these cans. They would indeed be good for mixing but for my intended use they were not a good fit. This was compounded by the sources I used though good recordings with my Denon recvr were not as grating as the bad recordings it was still hard to relax with these cans.
The Beyer DT250-80 are another story. These cans are colored in their presentation and lean towards warmth (read bass). The bass was deep right out of the box and these cans like to rock. Many people have said that the highs are a bit rolled off. I mainly agree but would like to spin this by saying that the highs are definitely present but they are just not in your face like they were with the senns. There's plenty stated on this aspect of the DT250s so I won't beat a dead horse. Ultimately, I found the Beyers much more involving and enjoyable. They were a bit more forgiving with non-ideal recordings and had me toe-tapping and head-banging. I really *felt* bass with these cans and the mids and highs were quite pleasant.
Comfort:
This was the deal breaker where the Senns were concerned. I have a pretty average size/shape head and avg size/shape ears but the top headband on the Senns was extremely uncomfortable for me. After about half an hour I felt like someone had hit me with a ball-peen hammer on top of my head where the headband rests. I contemplated making some padding mods as MagicThyse described but decided it was not worth it. The earcups were very roomy (deep cups w/pleather pads) and the clamping force was kind of high (as in tight fit) but this could be alleviated by stretching the headband and probably contributed to the Senns excellent isolation. They blocked more sound than the Beyers and put you in your own little world at least in my office environment. I also could not hear my phone ring (not sure if that's good or bad
The Beyers were very comfortable to me. The headband was not a problem at all and the cloth/velour pads were nicer IMO than the Senns' pleather. It might be worth noting that while the pads were about the same size on each can, the Senns were deeper and the inner diameter was bigger so there was lots of room for my ears in the Senns. With the Beyers I could fit my ear inside the pad but it was a snug fit since the inner diam was much smaller. I've heard you can use Beyer pads on the Senns if anyone has an issue with the pleather or just prefers cloth. The Beyer's also did not clamp as tight on my head.
Build Quality:
The Senns gave me the impression that they were built better. Both cans are all plastic so take this for what it's worth...the fit and finish was clean on both but the Senns just felt more solid. They were also a bit bigger and heavier so perhaps that biased my opinion. Both cans seem durable and can take some abuse. Only time will tell for me. The Senns allow you to replace most of the parts including the cord but you need a screwdriver to do so, while the Beyers have a detachable cord with pin connector. The Senns' earcups rotate to lie flat and also allow you to monitor with one ear easily, while the Beyers' cups are fixed - one of the only things I don't like about the Beyers and wish they had this feature of the Senns. The Senns also fold but the final package is not appreciably smaller than unfolded.
Amp'd or un-Amp'd:
I only tested un-amp'd but did notice that the Beyers were harder to drive by both my portable and soundcard. My portable handles them and my work computer strains.
Final Result:
Keeping the Beyers sending the Senns back. I did not intend to spend as much as I did in buying the Beyers but after my experience with the Senns I had to make another purchaes. I am pleased with the Beyers and will probably have them for a while which should justify the expense (until my next upgrade but then you guys have no idea what I'm talking about do you
An amp is probably in my future - any suggestions for a good pairing with the Beyers?
Last words of advice - Don't buy some headphones just because someone tells you they sound the best (not even me
Many thanks to a long list of Head-Fi members who have helped me (I use 'he' and 'she' loosely as I don't "know" anyone here yet just the usernames):
Snufkin - "Stick a pair on your head, sit back, relax and enjoy the music - that's how the DT250s work "- best description/advice I found and his comments on the Beyers lead me there and I'm pretty happy
Flasken, meithkiller, elnero, Alan, delenda est Sony, and blr for reviews (that I found) and good info
Macdef, HighwayStar, Kelly, kwkarth, Audio&Me for great info and objectivity.
MagicThyse for opinions against hd280s and speaking his mind
I'm leaving out a bunch of people that helped me through their posts and of course thanks to Jude.
That's all I have to say about that