[budburma]

I bought an amp here several months ago...although I lost it's description, it was a modified ppa of sorts rewired by [AK]zip with upgraded opamps and diamond buffers. I have no idea what all that actually means.

But, I also bought some Senn 650's and wondered what happened to Sennheiser!? I had some many years ago and remember really enjoying them, but the midrange seemed receded and the presentation dishwater dull. So, I tried some Cardas cables that came along with the Senns (bought used). A little better, but no big splash. Now I have SAA Equinox cabling and it's a bit improved, but still no 'wow, man, that is GREAT!'

Is it the Senns? Bad match with the amp? Not great amp? Where can I post some pics so I know what I have? Maybe go with a balanced Rudistor and some AKG's? Is this too many questions?

I like the idea of a great headphone experience and have a great 2 channel system that I have finished up (you know.....). I want to move on to working on a good can system, but I am a bit stymied by the experience of the top of the line Senns...

Thanks for any and all input.....

Enjoy the tunes!

Budburma

 

[GreatDane]

From my limited experience with AKG, IMO they do have a more prominent midrange.

Good luck.

 

[sachu]

The exact same reason why i gave up on the HD650 and bought another HD580.

Sure the bass is a bit lean compared to the HD650 but boy does it have a beautiful midrange and better high frequency than the HD650. The HD650 freq response seems to have a larger dB drop in the critical midrange frequencies (consistently about 2dB over 1600 Hz to 4000Hz ). This, coupled with the boost in the bass seemed to cloud the midrange for me.

 

[budburma]

thanks for the experience and insight. i guess i'll keep plugging along then. how about balanced amps? i am smitten from a distance by the nx-33. i think i'll have to tank the 650's....if you don;t like the speaker, the rest is good money after bad. maybe keep the amp and try some other cans?

 

[SR-71Panorama]

I use the HD650. FWIW, I also have a pair of Grado SR 225, which I got to branch out a while back. I find the Grado to have more mid range, but it is too snotty and honky sounding for me. I've come to appreciate the HD650 tremendously, as it sounds 'right' to me. I find that much music has the mids emphasized already, so no further increase is needed. YMMV.

 

[Ichinichi]

In my humble experience, the cans aren't your problem. The 650s respond most significantly to the following in order of magnitude

1. Amp
2. Source
3. Nyloning
4. Cable

What's more, I've found that the Equinox scales nonlinearly with the amp and source, moreso in terms of the amp than the source, but significant in both respects. I find that tubed amplifiers greatly advanced the mids to where I imagined they ought to be. Nyloning gave me much more air and cleared up the lows - couple this with a good amp and you get heavy, tight bass, crystal highs and honey mids.

Two months after getting my first pair of 650s and an unexpected $3000 later...I can truly attest that the 650s really do cause systems to be built for them. Sennheiser has made an outstanding dynamic HP in the 650, you just need to let them guide you.

 

[MH79]

What's Nyloning?

 

[Ichinichi]

similar to what your av is doing - gives the cans more air. teehee.

edit: nyloning is replacing the thicker foam with much thinner nylon/pantyhose

 

[SK138]

I like mine naked

...my drivers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichinichi /img/forum/go_quote.gif similar to what your av is doing - gives the cans more air. teehee. edit: nyloning is replacing the thicker foam with much thinner nylon/pantyhose

 

[spunkmeyer]

I had the same initial impression about the 650s. For me, everything changed when I recabled them. I'd read that silver cables bring out the mids and highs. After some research, I purchased the Revelation Audio Lab cryo-silver reference cable. Key differences from other silver cables are 5N silver (99.999% pure), cryo treatment (aligns the molecules), and solderless connections.

After cable burn-in (BTW, burning in the 650s also helps) I couldn't believe the difference. The mids and highs sparkled without being harsh or unnatural. It didn't artificially push them out, it just brought out what was there. The bass was tight and controlled. It seemed more tonally balanced, smooth and transparent. Instruments, no longer muted on the highs and mids, shone with clarity. Female vocals were lush and rich, and male vocals had more depth. Even the soundstage expanded. Comparing them to the stock cables, I understood why others said the 650s had a veil. I was a skeptic about cables making these cans that much better. Made a believer out of me.

Don't know what the other components in your system are, but if they are good, replacing those stock cables can truly help bring out the potential in the 650s. 30 day return policy helps you listen and decide. Before, my 650s were good, but not great. Now I love them. The 650s really are great cans, but you've got to have the right components to bring out their potential. Changed my mind, and put the wow back in.

 

[budburma]

Thank for all the advice. My system is pretty well developed and tuned in to my likes and I'm sure it's not the weak link. FWIW, here it is (wall out): Sound Application Socket--Elrod EPS#S--Modded Sound App. XE12S--Bmi Hammerhead Gold MkI---Cary 306/200---Gabriel Gold Rapture---AES AE3 DJH Sig. (Syl. 6SN7w's)--Rapture--Plinius P8--Stealth MLT's---Dynaudio Contour 2.8's. I just realized from the pre on out doesn't matter here!

Slver has been a bit anthema in my 2 channel system, but maybe it will wake the Senn's up. I really think it must be the amp....And I have on my nylons under my bathrobe...definitely makes listening more enjoyable! just not sure it actually sounds any better..

I was thinking about a Rudistor NX-33....and going SE in and balanced cans. The NX-33 is defintely a little more than I want to spend (1k feels like my very tip top, but i can stretch alittle if I have to). I do have a fair number of 6sn7's around, so a tube amp is not out of the question....but I am almost certifiable when it comes to tube rolling and for that reason, I would prefer SS. And, I like one box rather than a separate power supply, but again not set in stone. Any suggestions?

 

[Mulo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachu /img/forum/go_quote.gif The exact same reason why i gave up on the HD650 and bought another HD580. Sure the bass is a bit lean compared to the HD650 but boy does it have a beautiful midrange and better high frequency than the HD650. The HD650 freq response seems to have a larger dB drop in the critical midrange frequencies (consistently about 2dB over 1600 Hz to 4000Hz ). This, coupled with the boost in the bass seemed to cloud the midrange for me.

Actually the frequency response dips are located at about 5 KHz and 16 KHz (so largely above the vocal range which ends around 3 KHz); and the HD580 and HD600 have the same dips, if less 'accurately implemented'. Sennheiser has perfected this technique with the last generation of their phones.

Also, but this is personal, I don't really find the HD650 midrange clouded by the bass (which is all there, but is not overstated). Instead, the midrange tonality can feel a little too 'monitor like' at times - here I partly agree with the OP. But this is GREATLY affected by the amp! You need a 'musical' amp for such 'monitor' headphones. Lastly, you don't have to change the stock cable to make the HD650 sound quite musical in my experience; nor do you need amps with, say, tubes. The amp's and the source's musicality are key.

 

[Ichinichi]

Correction: your system is tuned to your likes with your existing output equipment (speakers, other HPs, etc.). Again, let the 650s guide you if you wish to realize their true potential; the saying is "650s cause setups to be built around them".

Quote:

Originally Posted by budburma /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank for all the advice. My system is pretty well developed and tuned in to my likes and I'm sure it's not the weak link. FWIW, here it is (wall out): Sound Application Socket--Elrod EPS#S--Modded Sound App. XE12S--Bmi Hammerhead Gold MkI---Cary 306/200---Gabriel Gold Rapture---AES AE3 DJH Sig. (Syl. 6SN7w's)--Rapture--Plinius P8--Stealth MLT's---Dynaudio Contour 2.8's. I just realized from the pre on out doesn't matter here! Slver has been a bit anthema in my 2 channel system, but maybe it will wake the Senn's up. I really think it must be the amp....And I have on my nylons under my bathrobe...definitely makes listening more enjoyable! just not sure it actually sounds any better.. I was thinking about a Rudistor NX-33....and going SE in and balanced cans. The NX-33 is defintely a little more than I want to spend (1k feels like my very tip top, but i can stretch alittle if I have to). I do have a fair number of 6sn7's around, so a tube amp is not out of the question....but I am almost certifiable when it comes to tube rolling and for that reason, I would prefer SS. And, I like one box rather than a separate power supply, but again not set in stone. Any suggestions?

 

[Ichinichi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SK138 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I like mine naked ...my drivers

I keep mine covered; I'd like my cans to have a sense of propriety!

 

[ManAtWork]

The non-burnt in HD650 is really having laid-back middle, you can improve it in two approaches (yes, best to go both):
- 200-300 hours burn-in
- pair it with an amp with brighter and forward middle to balance it. My HD650 sounds wonderful after pairs with the LISA III. The middle still not comparable as bright as others, but it likes sound from a old style tube amp. Amazing with such synergy.