[gov]

Hello--

First post here and this is an overwhelmingly informative site.

My question regards the differences between the Senn 595's and 580's. It seems many here are fans of the 580's but i have not seen as much on the 595's (relatively speaking).

Can someone try to relate the sound differences--i know these are very personal opinions but since i have no way of demoing the 580 without ordering it first, i'd like to find out what the big differences would be versus the 595's (which i have on loan right now).

i like the 595's but feel they may be a bit (only a bit really) to bright. i wonder if the 580's are a bit more laid back. i also feel the 595's are a bit distant (if that makes sense) with some recordings--which i guess you would say is the soundstage?

so what in your opinion is different between the 580's and 595's and do you think there is sufficient differences to warrant purchasing them to try them out?

thanks in advance.

gov

 

[Davesrose]

I'm a fan of both the 595 and 580, so I can give you an unbiased comparison between them. Tonally, the 595s are brighter....the 580s seem warmer because they have more subtle treble. Actually, if you think the 595s are distant sounding from soundstage, you'd find the 580s even more so. The 580s have a slightly larger soundstage. How long have the 595s been driven? I found them a bit too bright out of the box, but after 30 hours of use, their brightness seemed to have gone down. I now find them well balanced and the best for general rock and symphonies (I like the 580s more for small ensembles, accoustic, and jazz).

Tonally, I would have recommended possibly the k501 or 601.....but they have an even larger soundstage from the HD580. Perhaps you'd still like the HD580 with a proper amp.

 

[Mrvile]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm a fan of both the 595 and 580, so I can give you an unbiased comparison between them. Tonally, the 595s are brighter....the 580s seem warmer because they have more subtle treble. Actually, if you think the 595s are distant sounding from soundstage, you'd find the 580s even more so. The 580s have a slightly larger soundstage. How long have the 595s been driven? I found them a bit too bright out of the box, but after 30 hours of use, their brightness seemed to have gone down. I now find them well balanced and the best for general rock and symphonies (I like the 580s more for small ensembles, accoustic, and jazz). Tonally, I would have recommended possibly the k501 or 601.....but they have an even larger soundstage from the HD580. Perhaps you'd still like the HD580 with a proper amp.

Hmm, would you say that the K501/601 are less bright than the 580's?

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrvile /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm, would you say that the K501/601 are less bright than the 580's?

Interesting question......well I do hear some extra treble extension on the 580s that the 501s don't have. But the 501s have different emphasis in mids (so one is not superior to the other). I'm thinking the OP might like the 580s over the k501/601 because of the soundstage issue. The 595s are clearly brighter then any of them.

 

[gov]

thanks for the great reply dave!

i have only been using the 595's for less than 10 hours so that could definitely be a factor if you say they broke in a bit warmer than they were out of the box.

i do have concerns if the 580's are difficult to drive--if i will always need a headphone amp, then i might have to stick with the 595's. i plan to listen mostly on my home stereo but i defintely listen a bunch on the ipod or the computer if i'm away from the stereo. i must admit i'm not 100% sure i understand the concept of impedance in a headphone. the 595's played louder than the grado 125's i tried and they were 32 ohms compared with the 120 on the 595's right???? if the 580's are 300 compared with 120 on 595's, i guess they are harder to drive??? if so how come the 595's play louder than the 125's???

i should also state that i listen to primarily jazz and rock/alternative/indie with good amounts of reggae and world music (i hate the labels on these things btw).

one other point--when you say the soundstage is larger, you mean that the music feels further away correct? like you want to push the cans closer to your ears at times? are the 580's NOTICEABLY more distant or larger than the 595's? i feel like when i listen to the phones, i want to feel like i'm sitting in the middle of the players. the 595's are ok at this IMO, but on some (note not all) recordings, i feel like i am wanting to push the phones closer to my ears if that makes sense.

i appreciate your informative replies thus far.

gov

 

[bludo]

Are you sure that you have the 120 ohm version and not the 50 ohm ones?

 

[gov]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bludo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you sure that you have the 120 ohm version and not the 50 ohm ones?

well right you are bludo--i saw on the senn website that the 595's are 120 ohm, but i just checked the box and they are in fact 50 ohms according to the box.

what's the deal with that? are there lower impedance versions of the 580? if so, how can i be sure i am getting the lower version (i ask because i went to the site where i was going to order the 580's from and it does not even say)?

also, even though these are 50, they are still noticeably louder than the grado's. i imagine just like speakers, regardless of impedance, some models are louder --- like klipsch for instance????

now i'm confused

 

[Davesrose]

Actually, impedance isn't a good indicator of how loud a headphone will be on an amp. Impedance is the amount of resistance the voice coils are exerting on the system. A better indicator of how loud a headphone is going to get is it's sensitivity rating. I believe that a headphone's sensitivity is only really something to factor if you're using headphones on a portable device (since a lot of todays portables are having pathetic outputs that can't drive ineffecient headphones properly). Here's a list of headphones and their sensitivities. The HD595s have a sensitivity of 104 db/mw (so they are pretty loud). Looking up Grado 325s....they have a sensitivity of 98 db/mw. The HD580s have a sensitivity of 97, so they'd be closer in volume to the Grados. Some headphones like the k501 have even lower sensitivities that make them hard to drive on some portables.
http://www.rane.com/hc6hp.html

I did notice a big change in brightness with the 595s after 22 hours of burn in. I say let them grow on you a little bit to see if the brightness goes down. If not, then the 580s would be a good choice. I think the Senns are the best fit for your music preferences (especially if you're looking for something that isn't overly bright).

As for soundstage, the 580s have a slightly larger one. This is going to be a problem finding a good headphone that meets your needs. Transparent headphones like Grados, AKG k81DJ, and certain Sonys don't have much soundstage......but they also sound brighter because their drivers are right over your ears. So you might have to find a comprimise. I personally like Sennheiser's soundstage because I find it to be more intimate (like you're in the front row of a performance.....verses several rows back like other cans).

 

[bludo]

Only the early versions of the 595 were at 120 ohm, the new ones ar at 50.
The 580 doesn't have a lower impedance version, so an amp is mandatory.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gov /img/forum/go_quote.gif well right you are bludo--i saw on the senn website that the 595's are 120 ohm, but i just checked the box and they are in fact 50 ohms according to the box. what's the deal with that? are there lower impedance versions of the 580? if so, how can i be sure i am getting the lower version (i ask because i went to the site where i was going to order the 580's from and it does not even say)? also, even though these are 50, they are still noticeably louder than the grado's. i imagine just like speakers, regardless of impedance, some models are louder --- like klipsch for instance???? now i'm confused

Well I was writing my response, so you now have an answer on loudness of headphones.....Grados actually aren't that loud!!

As for impedance of Senns, the 580s have always been 300ohms. My experience is that the 580s do play pretty well on most gear: they just open up and sound fantastic through better sources.

I don't know if the 595s got higher sensitivity with the change in impedance (I think they may have, since one of the reasons Sennheiser changed it was so that they'd play well on portables). I have the 50 ohm version of the 595 and I think they sound great through a reciever. They sound fantastic through my expensive DAC, but that's the great thing about them: they reveal your sources.

 

[zotjen]

I have both the 595 and 580. As far as music listening goes, IMHO with the proper amplification and replacement cable, the 580 will always outshine the 595. That's not to say the 595 is a bad headphone. In fact, the one area where the 595 excels is for watching movies. The 595 does that better than my 580's and Grado RS-1's despite the fact that they are better when listening to music.

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zotjen /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as music listening goes, IMHO with the proper amplification and replacement cable, the 580 will always outshine the 595.

x 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by zotjen /img/forum/go_quote.gif In fact, the one area where the 595 excels is for watching movies.

Not in my experience.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zotjen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have both the 595 and 580. As far as music listening goes, IMHO with the proper amplification and replacement cable, the 580 will always outshine the 595.

well I won't x3 this

I don't think the 580s outshine the 595s in every music genre....the 580s were my first hi end cans, and they have grown with my systems. But after getting the 595s, I like them more for symphonies and certain rock genres. The 580s I will always hold in reserve for my classical guitar. I just got the 650s which are proving to be some really special cans.....still like the 580s for guitar music, but the 650s are the bomb for electronica and jazz. Before the 650s, it was all about the 580s for jazz. But tonally, to my ears, the 650s have more treble extension and are better all rounders. The 595s being second to that: they have less bass response but are more upfront and transparent.

 

[gov]

again folks--thanks for the great replies and frank discussion here.

so i am liking these 595's, but everyone at least seems to agree about the 580's outperforming the 595's on jazz and that;s about 40% what i listen to. so maybe i will have to give them a rattle.

just i know what i'm in for---do you ABSOLUTELY need an amp with the 580's to the point that without one they are useless? how about with my home audio receiver (marantz 7001)? how about on the computer (sb audigy sound card)? how about on the ipod (i'm guessing this will def need it)?

lastly, is there a universally accepted headphone amp that will suffice for these cans if it is absolutely necessary at an affordable price? can it be used on all the above? if not, other ideas?

suggestions are appreciated.

thanks again, and any additional comments are welcomed an encouraged.

gov

 

[gov]

also forgot--how necssary is the replacement cable?? it costs about $50 more than the cans themselves but i'm sure you all feel it is worthwhile correct?

what does it bring to the table from a performance standpoint? and lastly, does the cable have any impact on the need for an external amp (either for or against)?

thanks

gov