[Tbas99]

Hello,

First of all, i am no audiophile and i have little to no experience with (HiFi) sound. Please excuse me if something sounds dumb in my story.

I'm stuck with this question for a while now, and after hours of research i still haven't found a proper answer. I have decided to enter the world of "HiFi audio" and invest in a solid pair of headphones. During my search, i found a lot of different answers, opinions and reviews. Everytime i read something positive about a headphone, it gets countered by a negative aspect on another page.

I currently own a desktop and mainly use it for work, listening to music(Spotify, Youtube mainly) and occasionally gaming. I build my desktop a few years ago(motherboard is a Z270-A PRO, no sound card) and bought the necessary external equipment such as a keyboard and a headset. The current headset i have is a HyperX Cloud II, attached behind my computer straight on the 3.5mm connection of my motherboard.

Since i started listening to music a lot lately, and developed a major interest for it, i was looking for a solid headphone to invest in. I normally listen to Future House and EDM. I did quite a bit of research and my initial purchase was a pair of Sennheiser HD 650's. Once i got them it was quite a disappointment, mainly because i could not hear the difference between this pair of headphones priced at €350, and the onces i have right now priced at €60. Okay, maybe the sound felt different because they were open but aside from that i couldn't hear any new tones, details, improved bass or general quality improvement. After around 10 hours of listening without any change, i decided to return the pair. I later read an amplifier would have done the job fine, but my budget isn't big enough to purchase an amplifier of €200 next to the pair of headphones.

So i decided to continue my search and came across another model which would suit my needs; the AKG K712 Pro. However, after more research i suspect that this model will give me the same experience as with the Sennheisers once i order them. I read that they will be very hard to control with an amplifier. My price budget matches the sennheiser price of around 350, and because the AKG is a bit cheaper i could purchase an extra amplifier with them. I read that the Presonus HP4 should do fine(correct me if i'm wrong), but it may not extract the full potential out of the AKG's.

This brings me to my question: Would the AKG K712 Pro combined with the Presonus HP4 amplifier bring me another disapointing experience like the sennheisers? If so, i could appreciate any other suggestion. Perhaps i'm looking at the wrong department(studio headphones) for the things that i want to do with them?

Just a side question aswell: I was recently thinking about investing in a DJ-controller (Pioneer DDJ-400 to be exact), just to learn. Is the AKG suited for this aswell, or do i need to look at another section(DJ-headphones) and if so, why?

Thanks for reading! I'm looking forward to the feedback.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Massdrop/Sennheiser HD58X (150-Ohm) headphones (130Euros).
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-hd-58x-jubilee-headphones
Massdrop can not ship outside of the USA, but Massdrop can send the headphones to a local service that can then ship the headphones to you.

 

[audiofil]

Massdrop can not ship outside of the USA

That's not accurate. Massdrop does international shipping on a lot of their stuff, also at a very reasonable price - $15 (for headphones and other small items, at least). I'm EU based and bought quite a few things from them.

@Tbas99
Not so sure K712 will provide you with a much better experience. As with HD650, they need a good quality source and amp to shine and, even then, may not have the sound signature you're looking for on EDM or house music.
You might be better served with a easier to drive and bassier headphone. Philips Fidelio X2 and AKG K550 are the first to come to mind, but there are others as well.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

First of all, i am no audiophile and i have little to no experience with (HiFi) sound. Please excuse me if something sounds dumb in my story.

I'm stuck with this question for a while now, and after hours of research i still haven't found a proper answer. I have decided to enter the world of "HiFi audio" and invest in a solid pair of headphones. During my search, i found a lot of different answers, opinions and reviews. Everytime i read something positive about a headphone, it gets countered by a negative aspect on another page.

That's because there isn't anything that is absolutely perfect in performance by objective standards, there's subjective preferences on top of that, and then there's price or requirements for associated equipment. The same thing is practically true in every equipment for every hobby.

For under $50,000 you can either get a pony car with a powerful V8 but will struggle in a race track that has very tight corners, or isn't exactly lithe and agile enough for Sunday driving; or something like a GT86/BR-Z or a Miata, which won't have the same kind of power outside of spending several thousand more on forced induction (and even then it's not like it will do burn outs at the track - it's just going to make sure the pony car doesn't beat you at the straights and then just make sure you can't overtake it at the corners). Same thing with bikes...a Harley is comparatively cheap, but it's not really agile; on the flipside, a Buell like the equivalent Ducatis can make a chiropractor necesary if you use it daily.

Cameras that are fast in low light tend to be heavy and expensive; cheap cameras tend to be either heavy, older tech (DSLR), or mirrorless cams with a large sensor but have atofocus motors slower than enthusiast compact cameras (like the Fuji Xx0 and X100x).

A German knife will need more honing, a Japanese knife is sharper and will keep its edge, but bang any knife that isn't specifically a cleaver and it will chip; the harder steel also takes longer to sharpen, it can outright chip. Either way, save for Wusthoff doing santokus or Shuns being flat on top, their profiles are very different - you can rock a German knife to quickly chop parsley, a Japanese knife is more for chopping, push-cutting, and precision slicing. Cast iron is great for nearly everything; nearly, because they're too heavy to quickly flip when stir frying (unless you have bulging biceps), and cooking anything acidic long enough will strip the seasoning. Forged carbon steel is lighter, but has hot spots, and with the handle being a separate piece other than on the ridiculously expensive pans (which, to some, negates the whole point of using bare metal cookware like these), theoretically won't last as long as cast iron. Enameled cast iron won't have a problem with acidic stews, but the enamel won't take as much heat so a skillet with a cover isn't going to be good for a lot more than just searing meat before you braise it.

Bottomline...there isn't one single thing tool is everything to everybody.

Since i started listening to music a lot lately, and developed a major interest for it, i was looking for a solid headphone to invest in. I normally listen to Future House and EDM. I did quite a bit of research and my initial purchase was a pair of Sennheiser HD 650's. Once i got them it was quite a disappointment, mainly because i could not hear the difference between this pair of headphones priced at €350, and the onces i have right now priced at €60. Okay, maybe the sound felt different because they were open but aside from that i couldn't hear any new tones, details, improved bass or general quality improvement. After around 10 hours of listening without any change, i decided to return the pair. I later read an amplifier would have done the job fine, but my budget isn't big enough to purchase an amplifier of €200 next to the pair of headphones.

There are too many things that are happening there.

First off, despite their high sensitivity that makes them relatively easy to drive, they still need a fair bit of voltage output at 300ohms, and more importantly, very low noise and distortion (having a high nominal impedance just makes these easier to get, or conversely, not make them worse the way lower impedance loads can have a tendency to).

Then there's the response. Given its very strong response from 50hz to 800hz, coupled with music that has a lot of bass, then there's a tendency to highlight the bass.

Add to that how that same music isn't for example going to have the details that can separate a good system from a bad one like natural plucking on a double bass in vocal jazz that, on a bad system, will have the notes blending together with each of them sounding loose; or in metal where very fast double pedal work will sound less like drums and more like a mudslide on a bad system with boosted bass; or the crunch of an electric guitar or the way that a note comes in clear then gradually but generally very quickly fades as the next note comes in on an acoustic guitar. And then there's imaging - it doesn't project a wide soundstage but it has a proportional one where the cymbals aren't too far out to the flanks nor too forward.

And then finally, the last variable is always the listener. There's no way for us to guarantee you'd hear the difference if you were listening with, say, Focal Stella Utopias driven by 50W Class A tube monobloc amplifiers per side. I know a guy who casually plays acoustic guitar but can't tell the difference between an HD600 and his iPhone earbuds, and yet, he was immediately able to tell that Grados were basically "magic" (despite how objective measurements would refute it).

So i decided to continue my search and came across another model which would suit my needs; the AKG K712 Pro. However, after more research i suspect that this model will give me the same experience as with the Sennheisers once i order them. I read that they will be very hard to control with an amplifier. My price budget matches the sennheiser price of around 350, and because the AKG is a bit cheaper i could purchase an extra amplifier with them. I read that the Presonus HP4 should do fine(correct me if i'm wrong), but it may not extract the full potential out of the AKG's.

This brings me to my question: Would the AKG K712 Pro combined with the Presonus HP4 amplifier bring me another disapointing experience like the sennheisers? If so, i could appreciate any other suggestion. Perhaps i'm looking at the wrong department(studio headphones) for the things that i want to do with them?

Generally what you save on AKGs will go to an amp, and not simply the change compared to a Sennheiser. Given the AKGs' lowewr sensitivity and low impedance you'll need an amp with good current performance, with the guesstimate of 512mW per channel to get a good amount of current headroom. The HP4 has 130mW. This is why, other than gamers who use the AKGxMassdrop K7XX on soundcards and motherboards, most others who use the K-- series tend to use them on an amp that has a relatively large transformer surrounded by fat capacitors. Something like a Heed CanAmp or a Schiit Asgard, or a Meier Jazz FF.

The HP4 also doesn't list what its output impedance is, so while you might be able to get away with its power output as long as you listen at low enough output levels to keep distortion+noise low and not clip (and even then, at low enough output levels that it's hard to appreciate how much better it is), if its output impedance is higher than 10ohms, it will apply an EQ effect to the lower frequencies. In some cases it can sound like a tin can, in other cases it can boost it, but either way the bass can end up flabby and imprecise. Subjectively, you might like flabby bass as long as it's loud; objectively, either way that's going to screw up the K712.

On top of that the forte of AKGs is soundstage, which is more of a function of proper mic placement relative to the position of an acoustic instrument or at worse the amplifiers, which aren't exactly the more common elements of the music you listen to, so you're basically buying something that is more for something else. It's like buying a high strung, premium gasoline only Ducati Panigale 1299 when what you need is more like a Harley Davidson 883 (contrary to what a 1299cc V-Twin might suggest, it's only really torquey compared to a Japanese engine with four smaller pistons) which you can get for less than half the price since you're not paying for huge fade resistant racing brakes and stiff suspension (much less a rider position that can make you get a chiropractor if you use it daily).

Just a side question aswell: I was recently thinking about investing in a DJ-controller (Pioneer DDJ-400 to be exact), just to learn. Is the AKG suited for this aswell, or do i need to look at another section(DJ-headphones) and if so, why?

You might as well get DJ headphones with closed earcups, plus higher sensitivity and either you gamble on the bass getting boosted than trimmed or maybe look for one with 120ohms or higher impedance.

Or just stick with the Hyper X. It's a fairly good headphone and it's not like you need one with a very smooth midrange, agile but tough drivers that need a good amp so they can reproduce bass accurately, much less one with a very large or even just a more proportional soundstage.

 

[PsychicKangaroo]

From the sounds of things you didn't like the frequency response of the HD 650 and that makes sense, they're overrated as most people prefer a v-shaped response. The AKG K712 fairs better but for the price is a bit upsetting and therefore I wouldn't even consider recommending it over alternatives that can be had for much cheaper (I live in AU, the K712 was selling for ~$280 one which was the best value on the market then, the next year it went back up to $480). I would suggest a DT 880 or DT 990 if you want open back (whatever is cheaper, if the DT 880 only costs 20% more than the 990 than go for that one but otherwise, the 990 is of value, it would just make bad recordings sound terrible which is quite littered on streaming services today). The DAC on your computer is very good with an ALC892, you'd have to spend $200 on another DAC alone for a 1-2% improvement. Amps to go for would be the Fiio A5, but if you want slightly cleaner sound then the Objective 2 amp. The Schitt Magni 3 and Fiio K5 is also an option if you want a desktop only solution (K5 is of slightly less amp quality making the overall sound quality a slight bit worse but you'd have to do rigorous A and B testing between something as good as the Objective 2 to notice this difference). My recommendation would be the A5, it colours the frequency response a bit in the mid-bass and dulls the highs ever so slightly making it sound a bit warmer which pairs with the DT's in favor because of their high treble (v-shape), its also the most portable! but it seems a bit weird to have it on your desk, a desktop only solution including the Objective 2 looks better but that is all. My decisions on these amps is based on how much power you need for the DT's which is of priority importance, the I evaluated everything else

 

[Svenrolic]

Hey there, and welcome to the HiFi/head-fi community! Please allow me to assist and answer some of your questions below. I edited/reorganized your message to answer your questions in little sections. I hope it makes sense.

Hello,
1. The current headset i have is a HyperX Cloud II, attached behind my computer straight on the 3.5mm connection of my motherboard.
My initial purchase was a pair of Sennheiser HD 650's. Once i got them it was quite a disappointment
I later read an amplifier would have done the job fine, but my budget isn't big enough to purchase an amplifier of €200 next to the pair of headphones.

2. I have decided to enter the world of "HiFi audio" and invest in a solid pair of headphones.
I currently own a desktop and mainly use it for work, listening to music(Spotify, Youtube mainly) and occasionally gaming.
I normally listen to Future, House and EDM.
My price budget [is] around 350
Would the AKG K712 Pro suit my needs? I suspect that this model will give me the same experience as with the Sennheisers once i order them. I read that they will be very hard to control with an amplifier.

3. Because the AKG is a bit cheaper i could purchase an extra amplifier with them.
I read that the Presonus HP4 should do fine(correct me if i'm wrong), but it may not extract the full potential out of the AKG's.

4. Just a side question aswell: I was recently thinking about investing in a DJ-controller (Pioneer DDJ-400 to be exact), just to learn. Is the AKG suited for this?

So for section 1, I'm sorry to hear you didn't like the HD650. Sennheisers are an acquired taste for some people, and they don't play too well with EDM in my experience. I doubt an amplifier would've made enough of a difference to change your opinion on their sound signature to be honest.

In section 2, I reviewed all your headphone requirements. For electronic music I'd actually advise you look into HiFiman headphones. For some reason their signature sounds perfect to the artists I like to listen to at home. (Knife Party mostly) I own and love the AKG K712, but I don't think they're the best EDM headphones at this price point. They are great all-rounders if you decide to vary the genres you listen to. (If you throw in rock music, competitive gaming, misc. other genres, I'd highly recommend them.)

As for the amp in section 3, I can't really speak on that model. Sorry about that. I could recommend some others if we figure out what the remaining budget is after the headphones you choose.

For DJing an open headphone probably isn't the best choice, but mixing/mastering with an AKG K712 would be great. AKGs are amazing studio headphones, with the K712 being one of the best options at this price with a little bass in it.