[adolphe]

Earl,

would you mind giving a bit of a subjective comparison between the 7119 vs 7n7 (and maybe 6414)?

-Scott

 

[Frihed89]

It looks to me as if 3 6SN7s would work very well, but i can't see that anyone is doing this.

Comments?

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frihed89 It looks to me as if 3 6SN7s would work very well, but i can't see that anyone is doing this. Comments?

Back when the first SP amps were produced three 6sn7's was the default tube set. This tube set was the mainstay of the SP lineup for the last few years until the 5687 .... and later the 6bl7gt/a were discovered. The advent of the tube socket adapters then resulted in a literal explosion in the number of tubes you could use. Right now Mikhail has atleast a couple new tubes I have sent him. So .... expect even more options in the future.

Here is a link to the original SP tuberolling thread .....

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...rolling+thread

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adolphe Earl, would you mind giving a bit of a subjective comparison between the 7119 vs 7n7 (and maybe 6414)? -Scott

The tall bottle sylvania 7n7 is a very smooth, open and airy tube. The tube is refined with a nice warm tone and a slightly laid back presentation. The 7n7 is electrically identical to the 6sn7 and has that very distinctive 6sn7 sound in spades; if you have ever heard that tube. The 7119 is a brighter, faster and leaner sounding tube with good air and openess .... but not openess to the level of the 7n7. Both the 7119 and 6414 are higher gain and seem to have more dynamic punch .... particularly the 6414. The 6414 also has a very open sound with the most speed. Both the 7119 and 6414 seem to have more treble extension and detail vs the 7n7 which, again, seems less immediate and more laid back.

I tend to like the 7n7 paired with the 5687 as outputs. However, the 7n7 is still very good to excellent with 6bl7gta/s. But sometimes I want more speed and attack and this is where the 6414 excells. This tube really kicks the 6bl7gta's up a notch .... IMO. Some people will like more immediacy with the 6bl7's and the 6414 and 7119 are better in this regard vs the 7n7.

One thing to remember is that once you have the adapters the 7n7 is a $6-8 tube. The 6414 is a $10-11 tube. But the 7119 can run $25-30 a tube. I had several 7119's lying around I bought when the prices were cheaper or I doubt I would have tried them for this application. If you have some 7119's or can get them inexpensively they are definitely worth a try. But overall I think the 6414 is a better all round tube with the 6bl7gt's .... and as I mentioned I like the 5687's best with a good 6sn7/7n7 for gain. The 6414 is very good with the 5687's if you want a more immediate and detailed sound.

Excuse some of the redundant comments .... I am at work and hurrying to get done and out of here.

 

[augustwest]

"All 6SN7 set ups?

It looks to me as if 3 6SN7s would work very well, but i can't see that anyone is doing this.

Comments?"


The all 6sn7 tube set can very very rewarding, especially if you are a classical listener. The 6sn7, in all three positions is not fast and punchy, like using the 5687, or 6bl7's in the output spots. But then classical listening really doesn't need that. The 6sn7, in all three spots, will reward you with a finely nuanced total palet that the 5687 and 6bl7's can't even begin to provided. If you are a classical listener I urge you to experiment with the various 6sn7 combinations, you will find it to be very satisfying as I have.

Another worthwhile combo for the classical listener, is the 7n7 in the driver spot, with 6sn7's in the outputs.

happy listening!

- augustwest

 

[adolphe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover ... Excuse some of the redundant comments .... I am at work and hurrying to get done and out of here.

Thanks for the detailed comparison. I really do appreciate the fact that you share all your tube listening experiences. I still don't have my MPX3 (it was supposed to be ready about last week, but I haven't heard anything yet, you know the deal). I'm just trying to figure out which selection of tubes I should start experimenting with

With my amp I have coming a tall bottle 7n7 for gain, tung-sol 5687's for output, and 6bl7's for output. I think I might pick up a 6414 for gain, and a few 6SN7's to try in different positions.

-Scott

 

[tagosaku]

I mainly use three 6sn7.
For output I prefer 6sn7 to 5687.
For driver, 6sn7 is great, but 12au7 and it's relatives are real fun too

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frihed89 It looks to me as if 3 6SN7s would work very well, but i can't see that anyone is doing this. Comments?

 

[Voltron]

My entire MPX3 listening has been with 3 x 6SN7s until recently when I obtained a pair of 6BL7s and a 6414 with adapter from Mikhail. I posted somewhere else my first experiences with that combo and it is a SLAMMING setup in every sense of the word. It completely changed the amp, and the impact is incredible. I could barely get past 9-11 o'clock on the stepped attenuator, but it powered the K340s to new heights.

This weekend, I dug up a 12AU7 from the box of tubes I got from my father in law (a retired engineer). I intended to roll the 12AU7 into the driver spot, check out that complement, and then replace the 6BL7s with some 6SN7s, check that out, and then switch back to the 6414 with the 6SN7s. I have yet to change the 12AU7/6BL7 setup because I am so smitten with it! I love the dynamics and the speed and the impact, but it is down a notch from the intensity of the 6414. You gotta try this one if you have not done so.

I plan to get to those other arrangements and I would really like to try my 5687s as output tubes but I don't have those adapters.

 

[tagosaku]

Voltron, are you talking about running 6bl7 at high voltage with 12au7 as driver?

 

[Voltron]

Tagosaku-

I was running the amp at 6V, so I guess the answer to your question is no. Mikhail suggested that a 12AU7 was another option with the adapter and I did not stop to think about the voltage issue. It sounds good to me--although I intend to check it out further tonight. Interesting question.

Earl-

Any input on this? Some of your posts talk about 12AU7 being capable of either voltage but I am not sure what the impact of running them at 6V is on sound or on the tube itself.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltron Tagosaku- I was running the amp at 6V, so I guess the answer to your question is no. Mikhail suggested that a 12AU7 was another option with the adapter and I did not stop to think about the voltage issue. It sounds good to me--although I intend to check it out further tonight. Interesting question. Earl- Any input on this? Some of your posts talk about 12AU7 being capable of either voltage but I am not sure what the impact of running them at 6V is on sound or on the tube itself.

When Togosaku asked about high voltage for the 6bl7gt's he meant the B+ = 375-425 volts .... not if the gain tube was at a higher voltage = 12 volts vs 6 volts. When we refer to high voltage we mean the main high voltage power supply for the amp.

The 6414 and 12au7 can run at either 6 or 12 volts. I suspect your adapter was wired for 6 volts and both the 6414 and 12au7 were operating at 6 volts. With these tubes the heater voltage is set by wiring the heater pins in parallel = 6 volts .... or in series = 12 volts. Running the 12au7 at 6 volts does not impact the tubes sound or operation. But I tend to believe the tubes are their quietest at 12 volts.

I am using the 5814a .... which is a 12au7 military variant. I definitely like the tube. My favorite has been the older Raytheon flat, ribbed plate, 2 mica, D getter version. This tube is warm and smooth with punchy dynamics and a very dimensional soundstage. As you noticed the 6414 has an edge in speed and dynamics but I find the 5814a more refined with a richer "tubier" tonality. The later Raytheon 3 hole, blackplate with the windmill getter is another favorite.

I find with all our varying equipment the best tube will be unique for each setup. At this point I am mainly identifying the tube types that work, what adapter they use, if any, and some of the better repesentatives from each group. I am just trying to keep everyone abreast with all the tubes I keep discovering we can use. Trust me .... there are going to be more.

 

[Voltron]

Yeah, I wasn't sure if that was what he meant, but my amp does not have a voltage selector. The 12AU7 tube that I have been using is a Philco.

One more question, although I will look around for the answer in this and other threads. I have 12AX7, 12AV7, 12AY7, 12AT7 and 12AU7A. Should all of these work as drivers, theoretically? One of the 12AU7As produced only one channel of sound. The tube could be bad, but I wasn't sure if the 12AU7A is the same as 12AU7. Any thoughts?

I'm going to have way too many options from every perspective when my "new" amp arrives. 2 Rectifiers, 3 regulators, 2 drivers and 4 outputs, oh my!

 

[tagosaku]

Thanks.

I never tried 6bl7 with 12au7 so was curious.

Yes, you can use all of the 12xx7s. But as Earl has explained in other posts, 12au7 has the gain that matches best. So far, 12ax7 seems bright and not a good match, 12at7 does not give much space for volume control, but still sounds good, 12au7 is great. I am not sure if I prefer 12au7 or 12bh7 as of now. And I have not tried many 6sn7 for output yet.

I think 12au7 and 12au7a is same for using in MPX.

Yep, in my other amp, it was amazing how rectifier made a difference. Kind a glad my MPX uses only three tubes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltron Yeah, I wasn't sure if that was what he meant, but my amp does not have a voltage selector. The 12AU7 tube that I have been using is a Philco. One more question, although I will look around for the answer in this and other threads. I have 12AX7, 12AV7, 12AY7, 12AT7 and 12AU7A. Should all of these work as drivers, theoretically? One of the 12AU7As produced only one channel of sound. The tube could be bad, but I wasn't sure if the 12AU7A is the same as 12AU7. Any thoughts? I'm going to have way too many options from every perspective when my "new" amp arrives. 2 Rectifiers, 3 regulators, 2 drivers and 4 outputs, oh my!

 

[Voltron]

I just rolled in a 12AY7 and it has more pop right out of the blocks. I am going to give it some time to warm up before really listening but it sounds a bit brighter and punchier than the 12AU7 at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SACD Lover I am just trying to keep everyone abreast with all the tubes I keep discovering we can use. Trust me .... there are going to be more.

Trust me. We are relying on you for the info and to keep Mikhail exploring the possibilities (especially with his newly acquired options

).

 

[Frihed89]

Thanks so much for all the replies to my question. It helps a lot.

I live in Denmark. I have access to supplies of Brimar 6SN7GTYs (CV1988). Also to Mullard ECC32s (CV181).

Has anyone used either of these tubes?

What is SLAM? Is it the US-version of PRAT? Please. Help me out.

I like to hear warmth in the mid-range, refinement, detail and a wide/deep soundstage. I listen to jazz, blues, string quartets and some modern symphonic music + opera, acoustic music, pretty minimalist, also indie music like SMOG, Silver Jews, M Ward. I am an Audio Note lover. (I am using an AN DAC and AN-V ICs).

I was promised shipment on the RMAF demo NLT next Saturday. Has that unit been sold more than once?