scratches hurt CD playback even if not skipping?

Sep 13, 2005 at 4:31 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 14

euclid

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hi, im wondering when a cd has fine scratches, fingerprints, dust ect. even if it doesnt skip during playback, do those imperfections make a difference in sound quality during playback?

there are a few cds that i have that sound much worse than i remember them, no physical sounds/errors though. either im going crazy or its "age" on the cd.
 
Sep 13, 2005 at 5:10 AM Post #2 of 14
Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid
hi, im wondering when a cd has fine scratches, fingerprints, dust ect. even if it doesnt skip during playback, do those imperfections make a difference in sound quality during playback?

there are a few cds that i have that sound much worse than i remember them, no physical sounds/errors though. either im going crazy or its "age" on the cd.



Hi Euclid. I think it is possible that a multitude of fine scratches on the CD disc's surface might help to overtax the "error correction" circuitry on some CD players. This could result in less than stellar sound. I doubt that "age" alone, on an otherwise pristine the CD, would hurt the sound much. More likely, it is the aging processes going in our ears that would affect the sound we hear!
 
Sep 13, 2005 at 7:15 PM Post #4 of 14
they are originals

what i meant by "age" was the fine scratching, not just the time elapsed. i dont know how it happens but it seems every disk ive had for a few years has some scratching even though i am careful about handling them. im wondering if that in itself affects sound quality
 
Sep 13, 2005 at 8:05 PM Post #5 of 14
You can polish out fine scratches using plexiglas polish. Try Meguiar's Plastic Cleaner. You can get it at the hardware store. If you can't hear any clicks, odds are the error correction built into your CD player is taking care of it.

See ya
Steve
 
Sep 13, 2005 at 8:47 PM Post #6 of 14
The CD has two levels of error correction: C1 and C2. C1 errors happen all the time, even with brand spanking new discs, and are 100% correctable. They're just part of the normal data reading strategy. C2 errors occur when the data can not be recovered perfectly. In this case the player interpolates between the previous good audio and the next good audio it can get. This is usually short and rather transparent, but it is none-the-less an "audible" error. Once the gap gets too big for interpolation, you will hear distortion like it's a scratched CD. The distortion can also be due to the optics inability to focus on the CD correctly, again due to smudges and scratches.

So, yes, eventhough you may not hear skips, it is quite possible that a scratched CD is putting out errors in the audio. It is not guaranteed though--the scratch has to be big enough to cause a C2 error and then on top of that the error has to be big enough for a "theoretically audible" distortion to turn into an "obviously audible" one. A quick way to gauge is to rip the CD to your computer using Exact Audio Copy and see if the C2 error indicator bar lights up at all.

By the way, due to the way the data is packed onto a disc, a radial (parallel) scratch on the disc is much nastier than a perpendicular one. Thats why you shoud always clean your CDs in a straight line from the inside out to the edge as opposed to a circular direction.
 
Sep 13, 2005 at 8:51 PM Post #7 of 14
jefemeister-

I never heard of that. Interesting, though! I'll take that into considerations when I'm cleaning my CD's.

-Lee
 
Sep 13, 2005 at 10:52 PM Post #8 of 14
One way of making cd copy protection is to screw with the C2 error information which computers tend to rely on more then Hifis, so i'd write it off as a don't rely on it technology.

Actually technically any scratch that causes an error can possibly alter the sound. While the signal can be recovered and come out bit-perfect, the process of adding error correction can induce jitter into the stream. This is why many high end cdplayers weigh as much as amps
rolleyes.gif
 
Sep 14, 2005 at 12:17 AM Post #9 of 14
Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz
Actually technically any scratch that causes an error can possibly alter the sound.


But not necessarily audibly.

See ya
Steve
 
Sep 14, 2005 at 4:11 AM Post #10 of 14
thanks for the replies, i am currently using brasso for scratch correction but it leaves a foggy surface, ill follow that up with plastic polish and see if i can recover mirror finish.
 
Sep 14, 2005 at 5:29 AM Post #11 of 14
Quote:

Originally Posted by euclid
thanks for the replies, i am currently using brasso for scratch correction but it leaves a foggy surface, ill follow that up with plastic polish and see if i can recover mirror finish.


I would save that process only for skipping discs. If it's only minor scratches that don't seem to effect playback, I personally would leave them alone.

edit: or just use the breathe and wipe method. Use a scratch-less cloth.
 
Sep 14, 2005 at 6:08 AM Post #12 of 14
The only way I've seen to verify a bit perfect CD read and extraction is by using AccurateRip with EAC which does a CRC comparison to it's database. Seems like the CD can be very lossy with every scratch, smudge, dust, dirt, and rot. Sometimes it takes cleaning a CD a few times before it is perfect.
 
Sep 15, 2005 at 12:55 AM Post #13 of 14
Quote:

Originally Posted by dip16amp
The only way I've seen to verify a bit perfect CD read and extraction is by using AccurateRip with EAC which does a CRC comparison to it's database. Seems like the CD can be very lossy with every scratch, smudge, dust, dirt, and rot. Sometimes it takes cleaning a CD a few times before it is perfect.



this at c1 stage or even after c2 correction?
 
Sep 15, 2005 at 2:40 AM Post #14 of 14
The CRC comparison is done for each complete track.
Here is a six track CD example.
1Accurately Ripped (confidence 2) [35376dad]
2Accurately Ripped (confidence 3) [1f9628fe]
3Accurately Ripped (confidence 2) [25562cf1]
4Accurately Ripped (confidence 3) [a8bc44cf]
5Accurately Ripped (confidence 3) [a8b376a6]
6Accurately Ripped (confidence 2) [5a2b7da0]
 

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