[WildPhydeaux]

I'll be up front and honest. I want to post a classified ad or two and don't have enough posts to be able to do so as I'm more of a reader/studier than poster. However, rather than dither on about nothing or post half-hearted replies and pollute existing threads, I thought why not ask others thoughts and experiences with something near to my ear - tinnitus.

I had never been a headphone user, being a confirmed speaker addict, but have been well interested in the buzz over high-end headphones over the last dozen or so years. However I also have been experiencing constant tinnitus for the last 10 or more years, steadily worsening. Given that tinnitus is a brain issue, not a hearing issue as such, I was curious how I would react to headphone use. True to form, I badly over-equipped myself in typical audiophile fashion and purchased a good quality HP amp and a couple sets of headphones, along with assorted balanced cables/adaptors etc. I mean, why wait until I actually need an item when I can proactively abuse the credit card, right?

So. Sane levels, short listening periods to begin with and regular breaks from the headphones as the sessions became longer. No sessions longer than 2 hours. Wonderful! Its astonishing being able to listen so deep into a recording. And, truth be told, at my age I've definitely lost some of my upper frequency hearing but with headphones it seems to allow me to hear some of what's been missing lately.

Two weeks in and... well... I think my tinnitus is noticeably worsened. Three weeks in and, hell yes its worsened. Same ringing frequency but just louder. I won't exaggerate and say its hell now whereas before it was pleasant, nor claim its suddenly ruined my life. But I've no question that it IS worse by some degree.

So what's the deal? I mean, I'm certainly not listening at louder subjective volumes than I do with my speakers. In fact there are times when, with speakers, a guy just has to crank it a bit, right? And yet I never felt a progression of tinnitus as rapid as I have using headphones.

Interested in all comments. And, yeah, I want to sell a thing or two now that I'm out of the game.

Cheers,
Robert

 

[msing539]

Hey Rob, sorry about the tinnitus. I have it too, and I've had it for years, but luckily mine hasn't worsened and I'm still able to enjoy headphones.

Have you asked an audiologist?

 

[WildPhydeaux]

Thanks for your kind reply. I know I am far from alone and I also know that many have it far worse than myself so I try to keep things in perspective. It was a bit torturous to be honest though, hearing what I could be enjoying then revealing the price.

I live in a rural area in Saskatchewan, Canada. It's only an hour to the capitol city of Regina but, last I heard, there was only one audiologist operating in Regina and the wait list is not encouraging. I've had my hearing tested, quite competently from a layman perspective, by the hearing center in Costco. They were helpful in showing where my mostly age related losses occur. However they do not address tinnitus at all. I will definitely be getting myself onto the waiting list for the audiologist, but I'm somewhat skeptical they will do more than validate the hearing loss and shrug their shoulders at the tinnitus query.

I know blood pressure can be factor for some types of tinnitus, but mine doesn't seem to change tone or volume with an increase in activity which makes my heart work harder. I may see an ENT also to see if there may be in sinus or eustachian tube issue, though I don't seem to have symptoms of either.

I'm not garnering sympathy, I'm genuinely interested in other peoples experiences with or without headphones. Any home-cures, short of trepanation would be of interest - I've many of the YouTube "solutions", but perhaps they do work for some folks.

Cheers,
Robert

 

[msing539]

Yeah for sure--get on the waitlist. If not, maybe make a plane trip and tie it into a mini vacation.

Mine is worse at night, but in the day I also listen through it/don't notice it as much. I mean, it's always there, just lesser degrees of 'there.'

Now I just do whatever I can to protect what hearing I have left... people look at me like a dope when I wear hearing protectors to snow blow or mow the lawn. But I don't want to be one of those old guys who's constantly asking, "What? Huh?"

 

[MRC001]

... Two weeks in and... well... I think my tinnitus is noticeably worsened. Three weeks in and, hell yes its worsened. ... So what's the deal? I mean, I'm certainly not listening at louder subjective volumes than I do with my speakers. ...

As you allude, the subjective volume as one perceives it may be different from objective volume, as in the sound pressure level reaching the ear. People sometimes listen to headphones louder than they do speakers, not realizing it, because some of the perceptual loudness clues we have with speakers don't exist with headphones. With most speaker systems as you crank it up, you get higher levels of distortion, room effect, physical vibration, etc. Headphones are typically so much cleaner sounding even at high volume levels people don't realize how loud it actually is.

As a general rule, when listening with headphones, use a volume level that is not quite fully satisfying and has you wanting to turn it up more. If the volume level feels fully satisfying, it's probably too loud, even if it doesn't perceptually sound "loud".

 

[blaked]

I have thoughts on this, but I want to emphasize that I can only speak from my personal experience and have absolutely no expertise to back me up. Take everything I am about to write with something way bigger than a grain of salt... maybe, like, a giant salt lick.

I have tinnitus, fortunately not too overwhelming most of the time. It's usually relatively quiet and ignorable and hovers around 3.8 - 4 KHz in both ears (estimate using a tone generator to get as close as possible to the ringing I hear).

I'm fortunate that headphones usually don't aggravate my tinnitus, although not listening too loudly probably helps. That said, there's an exception: I rarely break out my Grado headphones anymore because I've found that, for me, they do seem to cause my tinnitus to temporarily worsen. Why? I don't know for sure, but I have a guess. One of the peaks that many of Grado's headphones are infamous for is right around the frequency of my tinnitus. I've wondered for a while if higher volumes at the same tone can aggravate the issue. That's speculation on my part, but it seems to fit.

Meanwhile, I can listen to my beyerdynamic DT 770 headphones with no apparent issues, and they're known for having quite a peak around 6 KHz or so. Maybe if my tinnitus was around that frequency I would have a problem? I don't know.

These days I mainly listen with headphones EQ'ed to the Harman curve or sometimes with an additional high shelf filter to lower the treble by about 4 dB, just to tame any brightness a little. Seems to work well for me.

YMMV, of course, and I'm making no claims that any of the above has any basis in medical fact. Just my own personal experiences.

 

[old tech]

I have thoughts on this, but I want to emphasize that I can only speak from my personal experience and have absolutely no expertise to back me up. Take everything I am about to write with something way bigger than a grain of salt... maybe, like, a giant salt lick.

I have tinnitus, fortunately not too overwhelming most of the time. It's usually relatively quiet and ignorable and hovers around 3.8 - 4 KHz in both ears (estimate using a tone generator to get as close as possible to the ringing I hear).

I'm fortunate that headphones usually don't aggravate my tinnitus, although not listening too loudly probably helps. That said, there's an exception: I rarely break out my Grado headphones anymore because I've found that, for me, they do seem to cause my tinnitus to temporarily worsen. Why? I don't know for sure, but I have a guess. One of the peaks that many of Grado's headphones are infamous for is right around the frequency of my tinnitus. I've wondered for a while if higher volumes at the same tone can aggravate the issue. That's speculation on my part, but it seems to fit.

Meanwhile, I can listen to my beyerdynamic DT 770 headphones with no apparent issues, and they're known for having quite a peak around 6 KHz or so. Maybe if my tinnitus was around that frequency I would have a problem? I don't know.

These days I mainly listen with headphones EQ'ed to the Harman curve or sometimes with an additional high shelf filter to lower the treble by about 4 dB, just to tame any brightness a little. Seems to work well for me.

YMMV, of course, and I'm making no claims that any of the above has any basis in medical fact. Just my own personal experiences.

I like the way you discuss your experiences without justifying it with psuedoscience. It makes your post useful and directly relevant to sound science. If only some of the others on other parts on this forum were the same there would be a lot less argument.

 

[bigshot]

I had a friend who had hearing damage he inflicted on himself as a youth. Whenever he played music on his stereo, he would ramp up the treble and bass bit by bit and then start raising the volume level. I asked him why he did that and he said that he felt like something was missing from the sound and turning up the tone and volume would fix it... but it never did because it was his hearing, not his stereo. He complained of a super high frequency distortion in his ears like bees buzzing along with the beat of the music.

 

[redrol]

There is a thing whereby older guitarists become hyper sensitive to midrange frequencies. Due to guitar blasting im sure. Right now, my favorite tuning is with the pinna/mid gain low vs higher. I do suffer from this.

 

[Cheesebuggah]

I watch a general reviwer on YouTube called "Freakin Reviews" and I recently found out (through one of his reviews) that he has permanent tinnitus. Before this video, I have never heard of permanent tinnitus and was shocked. Now, he attributes it to his younger days being in a metal/rock band playing gigs and attending concerts that made it worse.
A while back on this site, I read that someone hears ringing only while using IEMs. With headphones, they don't experience any ringing. I hear ringing within an hour after loud listening sessions on any device/s. I don't know if this is tinnitus or just something minor that happens after music listening. Anyways, it is a good reminder that tells to lower it next time.

 

[WildPhydeaux]

Sorry for the delayed response, I found myself very ill for over a week after I posted started the threat. Like flat out in bed, forced to use an embarrassing bed pan sick. Anyway, mostly fine now and I return to see some very nice responses.

I appreciate those who shared their experience with tinnitus. Mine crept on on me over the years. I have never been one for live concerts and with the exception of the odd very loud pub night, generally avoided over energetic use of the volume control. Although I've never been particularly mindful of mid-volume noise pollution like lawnmowers, weed wackers and chainsaws, they do not account for an inordinate amount of my leisure time and my work has never involved loud environments. I used to ride motorcycles and snowmobiles, but always with the noise dampening effect of full face helmets.

In short, although significant and aggressive anti-noise measures have not been normally employed by me, my life circumstances didn't indicate such would be prudent. I've also only lived in smaller cities and more rural than not.

I therefore think it may well be, at least partially, hereditary. I don't recall either parent complaining of tinnitus, be then they wouldn't - there were a tougher, more stoic breed.

It's a good idea someone mentioning identifying the frequency range their tinnitus seemed to coincide with. I'll look into that, perhaps as simple as test tones on a system setup CD. I just know that mine is more upper mid frequency, is like bells being aggressively rung but constant and loud. Not tinny little dinner bells, more like bells on the halter of a horse or the ones rung by Salvation Army donation folks on the street corner at Christmas time.

No matter what my activity or location it's the loudest thing I hear, loudest sound in the room, on the street, or in the cinema. I hear people's voices but can't make out what they are saying unless they speak slow, loud and face me.

Anyway, enough wingeing about it. The oddest thing to me is that I feel like I can still distinguish subtle changes in my two channel stereo - component changes, rearrangement of room treatments and swapping of some tubes in my preamp. The system is pretty transparent and revealing, but for me to notice it seems to fly in the face of common sense given the wild levels of distracting tinnitus. Perhaps it's expectation bias, but I don't hear differences in most cables even though I want to believe my friends touting such changes are not delusional...

Anyway, that's my story. Thanks for hanging out to listen to me prattle on and thanks for the kind feedback.

Cheers,
Robert

 

[PuzzledStar]

Hope you’re feeling better!

I helped my father in the last year with getting a pair of hearing aids so wanted to provide a suggestion that may help you find some relief when you’re not listening to music.

I recommend looking into hearing aids that have features specifically for tinnitus. My father has pulsatile tinnitus so it may be slightly different from what you hear. While accompanying him to his audiologist appointments and doing some research on hearing aids, I found that there are some models that can provide relief.

I don’t think the hearing aid helps resolve the tinnitus but it can provide some relief at least based on my dad’s personal experience. There seem to be mainly two different approaches towards tinnitus relief. Either the hearing aid plays a constant frequency/white noise or it plays beeps/tones at random times. I won’t get into the science behind why these theoretically work but at least anecdotally it seems to work for some people.

If you have an appointment with your audiologist though, definitely talk to them about your tinnitus as it’s not something that shows up on hearing tests or any imaging. You’ll have to tell them for them to know you have it.

 

[WildPhydeaux]

Thanks, that's encouraging having anecdotal information that the tinnitus "distraction" functions on some hearing aids may be of benefit.

Interestingly I did actually get a pair of hearing aids about a year ago after a visit to the Costco hearing center. I ended up with one of their top line models and after I had them I did a bit of research. In fact this model does have tinnitus specific programs but not enabled on mine.

I asked Costco what was up with that, as I had specifically mentioned my tinnitus when my hearing was tested. They said their agreement with the manufacturer excluded their ability to enable that function. In order to get all the bells and whistle, so to speak, I would have to purchase the SAME MODEL, at a custom hearing center (read: quadruple the price). So yeah, capitalism on the backs of the less than well heeled is alive and well in Canada...

In the end, hearing aides aren't for me unless they can show me some tinnitus relief. Their primary function performance was quite good but very distracting hearing a bunch of stuff I had learned (and appreciated) to go without through the years. Like squeeking office chairs, shuffling paper, rustling fabrics and the droning of barely heard voices. That and when something loud happened I nearly shat myself. The tinnitus still interfered with my ability to follow a conversation during large meetings. I do expect I'll end up with hearing aides later in life and I'm sure they will be a Godsend, but not ready for them now.

Cheers,
Robert

 

[IanB52]

A lot things can cause tinnitus. IMO, the idea that tinnitus is in the brain exclusively speaks to the fact that medical science has about zero understanding of it.

I got extreme somatic tinnitus that made sleeping and normal function extremely difficult, if not impossible for a time. It was like literal torture. Strangely, I can also hear perfectly up to 15.7khz, so no hearing loss was involved.

I was not correctly diagnosed at the time, but now it seems like the cause was actually a series of whiplash injuries combined with weak neck musculature and bad posture. So some nerves were aggravated, but the main cause seems to be cranial blood pressure being increased by the injuries and weakness. Physical therapy for my neck muscles and posture is helping, but I still have a long way to go.

I believe there is some evidence that certain muscles like scalenes, SCM, trapezius, levator scapula etc can be implicated in tinnitus, and tinnitus is common with whiplash injuries, but I think this is often the kind that makes changes with body movement.

For a time I thought that headphone listening was increasing it, but it was actually my neck muscles stresses under the headphones. But, I did have some tinnitus before this, and also found that certain bright or harsh amps or headphones were more likely to provoke it than others. I dont notice that kind much anymore.

 

[WildPhydeaux]

From my reading on the matter, you're correct in that medical science has no answers as to what tinnitus actually is or the range of contributing factors that can effect it or cause it. There is a well known correlation to increased blood pressure within the ear and in this case, which can sometimes actually be cured, the source of "the sound" actually does originate in the ear, though not as incoming audible frequencies.

So increased blood pressure or imbalance of blood pressure in the head/neck/ear area due to trauma certainly sounds like a reasonable origin for sudden tinnitus.

In the absence of this, though, there is no clear indication that general tinnitus has anything to do with the ears. It is very clearly a brain issue. I mean, there IS NO such sound, therefore it can't be heard by the ear and, barring damage to the ear, what is generating the electrical stimuli to the "hearing center" of the brain which tricks the brain into thinking there is a sound?

I don't think it's accurate to say medical science has zero understanding of tinnitus. I do think it's safe to say it's an area of study where they recognize they have barely scratched the surface in beginning to understand even the scope. It's a mistake to lump in sound-bite comments of medical adjacent practitioners with medical research professionals actually involved in research.

Cheers,
Robert