[Jamiee]

   
Thanks for the post - interesting video! My favorite part was the two of them trying to figure out how to decide between the Yggy and the Zodiac - maybe a coin toss - that cracked me up. It apparently never occurred to them that if you can't tell a difference in sound, select the setup that costs $10K less??
 
I have a different theory as to why the Yggy in fact sounds MUCH better than the Zodiac. Here it goes:
 
A DAC by itself makes no sound. After spending $13K on the Zodiac, there would be no budget left for headphones, headphone amp, speakers, pre-amp and speaker amp, cables and music to play through it. If you buy the Yggy you can use the extra $10K (or less) for the equipment necessary to hear the DAC.
 
Then again, my decision making process may be different than others 

I watched Tyll's latest video last night, and sure enough the Atomic Clock module for the Zodiac was clearly visible.
So yes he really is comparing the Yggdrasil ($2,299) vs. Zodiac Platinum DSD w/ Atomic Clock ($13,045) as a part of his suite of blind tests.
 
It kill's me that everyone he's had in to do the blind testing, either can't hear a difference, only hears a slight difference, or won't bother comparing the two because they feel there's not going to be a significant sonic difference between the two DAC's - At least not enough of one that they'd be willing to blind test.
 
Tyll keeps saying that it's R2R vs. S/D (seemingly hinting at the fact that there's little perceived sonic difference between the two technologies), but he's not once mentioned the very obvious price discrepancy between the two units. 
 
Would it be correct for me to say - Yes S/D can sound like R2R, but at a far greater cost... ??   The honest answer is that's an assumption on my part - Other factors might be at play.  But I don't think it's an unreasonable conclusion based on my limited knowledge.
 
I also wonder if headphones (in their current state) aren't somehow a limiting factor when comparing DAC's. 
Quality speakers still produce a much more convincing and life-like presentation than existing headphones can IMO.
Headphones do detail very well - besting many speakers in that area... But I've not heard a headphone yet that can match the overall realism of a good two-channel stereo setup.
 
 
Anyway, that's just me thinking out loud.... 

 

[Baldr]

Blind A/B tests:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/7725#post_11921090

 

[Articnoise]

  Blind A/B tests:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/7725#post_11921090

 

Nice I agree! I have also tried to explain the importance of longer listening sessions then conducting blind testes or evaluating gears. I don’t know if anyone got it. Probable not 

 

Post #4112 http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-delta-sigma-kinda-sucks-just-to-get-you-to-think-about-stuff/4110

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

 
I watched Tyll's latest video last night, and sure enough the Atomic Clock module for the Zodiac was clearly visible.
So yes he really is comparing the Yggdrasil ($2,299) vs. Zodiac Platinum DSD w/ Atomic Clock ($13,045) as a part of his suite of blind tests.
 

 
It was only added after Anax did his blind tests, because he wanted to give it a try.  He said it would have made it even harder to tell the difference....but yeah, the price diff is huge.  Which is why it was not hooked up for all the other listening tests. 

 

[Raika]

I believe hugo will sound VERY IMPRESSIVE with every headphones and amps  , I hope you do some impression on the dacs mr , Tyll .

 

[US Blues]

  This is my take on whether the Yggy can be improved by audiophile digital interface cables. This is the point where cable sceptics start rolling their eyes, muttering something about ones and zeros. But if you stick around, the punchline may make you smile.
 
 

 
Will you be doing a comparison of the inexpensive RCA SPDIF to "better" RCA SPDIF cables?
 
PS- Congrats on your Yggy. I recall your initial test drive when you had the loaner, and the wait you endured to get your own.

 

[TheAttorney]

^ Most likely yes. The dealer is as curious as I was with the results, so is aiming to send me the rca equivalent of one of the xlr models I already have. I'll also have the 0.75m Fisual by then.

 

[Barry S]

My Yggy is now inbound.

At the DC meet last month I got a chance to compare my Gungnir DS to the GMB through my Ragnarok. In short, I didn't find a big difference between the two versions. Heresy, I know. The conditions weren't ideal and I'd like to do a more controlled comparison, but it made me question dropping $500 on the upgrade. Directly comparing the GMB to the Uberfrost, I could hear a distinct difference, with the GMB sounding smooth and clean, compared to a slightly grainy and sharp presentation of the Uberfrost.
 
The highlight of the show was listening to the Rag/Yggy--it's at another level for me. I've had my Rag for some time, and while I like it out of the Gungnir--the performance was lacking in the wow factor. Because of that, I've been thinking of selling the Rag. The Rag/Yggy changed my mind completely--the detail and imaging was stunning. I listened with a range of headphones, LCD-X, LCD-3F, HD800, and HE-6, and the system did well with all of them. The HD800, which is often unlistenable for me, was beautiful out of the chain.  I'm a hugely skeptical head-fier and held off on the Yggy, because of the usual nonsense in DAC threads, but I can't deny the Yggy added something noticeably different and better to my current gear. The other head-fiers at the meet seemed to have similar opinions.

 

[TheAttorney]

Whilst waiting for round 2 of my digital interconnect test (a 0.75m Fisual RCA and loaner TQ Black RCA both in the post), I'll give my Yggy Power Cord impressions:
 
Whilst the Yggy and interconnects were burning in, I was also burning in a couple of posh power cords. All of my previous comments on the digital interconnects were based on using the TQ power cord. Once I had concluded the interconnects test, I focussed on the power cords. There were 3 in the running:
 

1. Tellurium Q Ultra Blue (entry-level for TA at around £399 depending on length)
2. Clearer Audio Silverline (mid-level for CA at around £344)
3. Stock cord that came with Yggy (I suppose that's £0)

 
In short, two of these cords were quite close, and head and shoulders above the 3rd. But which one was the winner? Could the stock cord pull off another giant killing act like the Fisual? Well, lets see:
 

Spoiler: And the winner is...

[size=11.0pt] [/size]
[size=11.0pt]Yep, you've guessed it, or maybe not this time, as I didn't leave enough clues. The winner was the CA, with the TQ not far behind. I could live with either of these, but bought the CA, as it was also a bit cheaper.[/size]
[size=11.0pt] [/size]
[size=11.0pt]In comparison with the two above, the stock cable had a thin, aggressive sound. This wasn't so noticeable on well balanced recordings, but was a killer on certain kinds of brighter recordings. Case in point was Alison Krauss' Paper Airplane CD , which is fundamentally a good recording that's been spoilt by an overly forward presentation. The stock cord sounded schitt with this particular CD, with a metallic edge to the guitar picking, and Alison's normally lovely "voice of an angel" sounding more like the wailing of a strangled cat [1] [2], and generally a glassy sheen to the whole presentation. Amazing how changing one seemingly insignificant component can upset the balance of a finely tuned system.[/size]
[size=11.0pt] [/size]
[size=11.0pt]In comparison, the CA had a weightier sound, with more body. This wasn't like applying a simple tone control, because it was still a bright recording, but the CA made it sound so much more pleasurable, turning the forwardness into something more positive, more like the immediacy of a live performance. Still not perfect, but at least now I could get into the performance without "hifi" distraction.[/size]
[size=11.0pt] [/size]
[size=11.0pt]To be fair  to the Schitt cord, it had nowhere near the same amount of burn-in as the other two, in case that makes a difference. But tough, there's only so much faffing I'm prepared to do before getting burnt out with burn-in. A reminder that these are probably objectively small differences, but on this CD it mattered a lot. I didn't try many other CDs - I'd heard enough already for what I needed to know.[/size]
[size=11.0pt] [/size]
[size=11.0pt]Notes:[/size]
[size=11.0pt][1] Gross exaggeration for dramatic effect.[/size]
[size=11.0pt][2] No animals were harmed in the making of this test.[/size]

 

[planet]

  My Yggy is now inbound.

At the DC meet last month I got a chance to compare my Gungnir DS to the GMB through my Ragnarok. In short, I didn't find a big difference between the two versions. Heresy, I know. The conditions weren't ideal and I'd like to do a more controlled comparison, but it made me question dropping $500 on the upgrade. Directly comparing the GMB to the Uberfrost, I could hear a distinct difference, with the GMB sounding smooth and clean, compared to a slightly grainy and sharp presentation of the Uberfrost.
 
The highlight of the show was listening to the Rag/Yggy--it's at another level for me. I've had my Rag for some time, and while I like it out of the Gungnir--the performance was lacking in the wow factor. Because of that, I've been thinking of selling the Rag. The Rag/Yggy changed my mind completely--the detail and imaging was stunning. I listened with a range of headphones, LCD-X, LCD-3F, HD800, and HE-6, and the system did well with all of them. The HD800, which is often unlistenable for me, was beautiful out of the chain.  I'm a hugely skeptical head-fier and held off on the Yggy, because of the usual nonsense in DAC threads, but I can't deny the Yggy added something noticeably different and better to my current gear. The other head-fiers at the meet seemed to have similar opinions.

 
This is my impression, as well, though I'm using a GS-X Mk2 instead of the Rag.  I've stayed away from the HD800, but given what I've been hearing about the mod lately, I might consider them if I could demo them first.

 

[johnjen]

snip
The highlight of the show was listening to the Rag/Yggy--it's at another level for me. I've had my Rag for some time, and while I like it out of the Gungnir--the performance was lacking in the wow factor. Because of that, I've been thinking of selling the Rag. The Rag/Yggy changed my mind completely--the detail and imaging was stunning. I listened with a range of headphones, LCD-X, LCD-3F, HD800, and HE-6, and the system did well with all of them. The HD800, which is often unlistenable for me, was beautiful out of the chain.  I'm a hugely skeptical head-fier and held off on the Yggy, because of the usual nonsense in DAC threads, but I can't deny the Yggy added something noticeably different and better to my current gear. The other head-fiers at the meet seemed to have similar opinions.

One thing I have noticed about The Rok is, it will pass along with very minimal changes, the source signal and get whatever headphones are being used to deliver that signal as accurately as possible.
Transparent, neutral and pristine are terms that come to mind, albeit with a very slight tube like quality of softness, rather than the more usual SS hardness.
But the low end, especially those 2 very bottom octaves (and below) is stupendous. This is usually where tubes have 'difficulty'.

The best of both worlds…

JJ

 

[Barry S]

One thing I have noticed about The Rok is, it will pass along with very minimal changes, the source signal and get whatever headphones are being used to deliver that signal as accurately as possible.
Transparent, neutral and pristine are terms that come to mind, albeit with a very slight tube like quality of softness, rather than the more usual SS hardness.
But the low end, especially those 2 very bottom octaves (and below) is stupendous. This is usually where tubes have 'difficulty'.

The best of both worlds…

JJ

I completely agree with you about the Rag--it's one of the the most transparent amps I've ever heard. One thing I've learned is--not everyone likes transparent. I A/B'd the Rag against an Auralic Taurus, and the Taurus has a noticeably aggressive signature. Some people preferred the Taurus, even though it's clearly adding coloration to the signature.

 

[johnjen]

It's funny to me because I want an amp to be as colorless and neutral as possible (wire with gain), whereas the quality or nature of the signal should derive from the signal source, both the s/w and h/w.
Of course it never is as simple as this.

But what is interesting is when this achievement is reached, often the amp is overlooked and is considered as not being 'good enough'.
Case in point, was the near lack of comment about the Rok in BigSound 2015, by all of those who got to play with all of that equipment.

It was nearly invisible, both sonically and visually, yet right out in front, in plain sight for almost the whole 2 weeks.

An interesting psychological phenomenon…

JJ

 

[Jamiee]

JJ,
I noticed the same as well....
 
Perhaps Tyll can chime in and mention why the Rok was seemingly left out of BigSound 2015?

 

[BDM-Fi]

  JJ,
I noticed the same as well....
 
Perhaps Tyll can chime in and mention why the Rok was seemingly left out of BigSound 2015?

Indeed. The Ragnarok he received had some "weird" results being measured : http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-getting-some-numbers#OYUfgFsDifp42BEZ.97.
 
In that post he mentions the results would be updated when a replacement Ragnarok would arrive; but I haven't seen any updates so far... . Hopefully he managed to get new results, interested to see how the amp measures.