[Skip Pack]

Again, Thanks! I think you are heading toward a crux issue: Stereo Imaging. I have always felt the stereo imaging is actually a false effect. I do enjoy the effect, but I think the more diffuse soundfield produced by the Syn with processing on is closer to what you would hear live -- electronic or acoustic instruments, big or small venue, indoors or out.
I also think that recordings that sound really good in stereo also sound really good with Syn processing. Leads me to believe that the recording process is valid, and that the 'excess location specificty' that I hear in a good stereo system is an natural artifact of two channel reproduction. It's seems almost the same effect I have always seen in stereo visual presentation (i.e. the old Viewmaster discs).

Fun Stuff, Skip

 

[Tbone289]

Again, Thanks! I think you are heading toward a crux issue: Stereo Imaging. I have always felt the stereo imaging is actually a false effect. I do enjoy the effect, but I think the more diffuse soundfield produced by the Syn with processing on is closer to what you would hear live -- electronic or acoustic instruments, big or small venue, indoors or out.
I also think that recordings that sound really good in stereo also sound really good with Syn processing. Leads me to believe that the recording process is valid, and that the 'excess location specificty' that I hear in a good stereo system is an natural artifact of two channel reproduction. It's seems almost the same effect I have always seen in stereo visual presentation (i.e. the old Viewmaster discs).

Fun Stuff, Skip

Crux? I don't think so.

I have not stated that a stereo recording perfectly captures the soundstage of a performance. I have stated that it's impossible for anything other than two audio channels to more accurately reproduce a stereo recording. Processing a stereo recording into more than two channels in attempt to achieve something closer to the original performance might be possible, but it is a false effect; similar to how processing a center channel and surround channels from that stereo recording is a processing "effect".

I understand that you disagree with that, and I will agree to disagree rather than repeating again what I've already stated.

 

[Skip Pack]

I think we are actually fairly much agreeing. I think my preference for the Syn processed front channels is related to the amelioration of several issues:

1) The stereo imaging that I feel is pleasing but somewhat unreal.

2) My sense that the Syn processed 3ch (maybe more) allows better enjoyment from within larger area in the room. (tales on myself, no one else in my family cares, though they enjoy music very much)

3 ) The Syn 3ch seems to make poor recording quality a bit better. I value a lot of good performances that are poorly recorded. Many others don't.

When the Performance, recording, mixing, and mastering are all great, I'm happy with 2 channels.

 

[Beenzy]

I have a system I built for my home office using a Syn and I really love it. I have my main PC (USB), alternate PC (COAX), and TV (Optical) going into a Modius and that outputs to the first input of a Lyr+. The Lyr+ pre-out goes into the Syn. I run the mains output for the Syn into a miniDsp 2x4HD that goes into a Gjallarhorn for the main speakers (Q 3020is) and the subwoofer (SVS SVB-1000 Pro). This lets me EQ the speakers, set a high-pass filter for the mains, adjust timing for the sub, etc. I don't use the LFE/Sub output on the SVN, I like this way better with the mains being combined with the sub and separately controlled. For the surround outputs I have another minDsp 2x4HD and another Gjallarhorn. The surround speakers are a pair of Klipsch RP-600m bookshelf speakers that were part of my former office two-channel setup.

I run the center outputs from the Syn to a powered soundbar which is what I used to have the TV hooked up to. Since the TV, soundbar, Syn, and Lyr+ all came with IR remotes I use a Sofabaton X1 to control them all as needed, although I mostly don't need it because everything is in easy reach on my desktop.

This setup works great for me. I can use headphones plugged into the Lyr+ when I don't want to disturb other people (my wife works across the hall from me) and get sound from my work computers or the TV as needed. If I want to watch a movie or something on TV I can turn on the pre-out from the Lyr+ and the room comes alive. If I want to just listen to music over the speakers I can mute the soundbar, turn on the surrounds and turn off processing on the Syn, and get a really, really nice backfill effect. It sounds just awesome. I've spent a couple of months putting this all together but it was really worth it for me - I now have the home office audio setup I have always wanted. I really hope the Syn is selling so that we can someday get a Syn 2 - or at least a better remote for the Syn 1

 

[bweiss711]

I have a system I built for my home office using a Syn and I really love it. I have my main PC (USB), alternate PC (COAX), and TV (Optical) going into a Modius and that outputs to the first input of a Lyr+. The Lyr+ pre-out goes into the Syn. I run the mains output for the Syn into a miniDsp 2x4HD that goes into a Gjallarhorn for the main speakers (Q 3020is) and the subwoofer (SVS SVB-1000 Pro). This lets me EQ the speakers, set a high-pass filter for the mains, adjust timing for the sub, etc. I don't use the LFE/Sub output on the SVN, I like this way better with the mains being combined with the sub and separately controlled. For the surround outputs I have another minDsp 2x4HD and another Gjallarhorn. The surround speakers are a pair of Klipsch RP-600m bookshelf speakers that were part of my former office two-channel setup.

I love this set-up. I also have my Syn set-up in my office and have a Lokius is the chain for EQ. However, if and when I ever replace my existing surround receiver in my family room/theater, I've considered using a miniDsp for EQ and sub crossover. Really cool to hear someone else had the same thought and is working to great success. Cheers!

 

[Tbone289]

I have a system I built for my home office using a Syn and I really love it. I have my main PC (USB), alternate PC (COAX), and TV (Optical) going into a Modius and that outputs to the first input of a Lyr+. The Lyr+ pre-out goes into the Syn. I run the mains output for the Syn into a miniDsp 2x4HD that goes into a Gjallarhorn for the main speakers (Q 3020is) and the subwoofer (SVS SVB-1000 Pro). This lets me EQ the speakers, set a high-pass filter for the mains, adjust timing for the sub, etc. I don't use the LFE/Sub output on the SVN, I like this way better with the mains being combined with the sub and separately controlled. For the surround outputs I have another minDsp 2x4HD and another Gjallarhorn. The surround speakers are a pair of Klipsch RP-600m bookshelf speakers that were part of my former office two-channel setup.

I run the center outputs from the Syn to a powered soundbar which is what I used to have the TV hooked up to. Since the TV, soundbar, Syn, and Lyr+ all came with IR remotes I use a Sofabaton X1 to control them all as needed, although I mostly don't need it because everything is in easy reach on my desktop.

This setup works great for me. I can use headphones plugged into the Lyr+ when I don't want to disturb other people (my wife works across the hall from me) and get sound from my work computers or the TV as needed. If I want to watch a movie or something on TV I can turn on the pre-out from the Lyr+ and the room comes alive. If I want to just listen to music over the speakers I can mute the soundbar, turn on the surrounds and turn off processing on the Syn, and get a really, really nice backfill effect. It sounds just awesome. I've spent a couple of months putting this all together but it was really worth it for me - I now have the home office audio setup I have always wanted. I really hope the Syn is selling so that we can someday get a Syn 2 - or at least a better remote for the Syn 1

Thanks for sharing your setup! I agree with @bweiss711, this is another cool and creative way to use SYN.

Here's my simple HT setup. Details are in my sig.

 

[Tbone289]

I think we are actually fairly much agreeing. I think my preference for the Syn processed front channels is related to the amelioration of several issues:

1) The stereo imaging that I feel is pleasing but somewhat unreal.

2) My sense that the Syn processed 3ch (maybe more) allows better enjoyment from within larger area in the room. (tales on myself, no one else in my family cares, though they enjoy music very much)

3 ) The Syn 3ch seems to make poor recording quality a bit better. I value a lot of good performances that are poorly recorded. Many others don't.

When the Performance, recording, mixing, and mastering are all great, I'm happy with 2 channels.

I suppose we do agree for the most part. It was the "fake" description of two channel that threw me. All recordings have their limitations and that's not a term I would use to describe it.

SYN allows for some great fine-tuning of the image no doubt and anything that improves the enjoyment of the performance is welcome; as that is, and should remain, the most important part of this hobby!

 

[Raveron89]

Thought I'll share a few observations from my recent play with Syn.
I'm still on 2.0 as I had to put my speaker building on hold until end of the year.
But I really liked the Syn surround knob. I thought it wouldn't work on 2.0 but I love how I could move the vocals front and back.
This became critical even I added the Geshelli J2S 4493 akm dac with Sparkos OP amp on rca output.
Now this is where things started getting confusing. While Syn dac of known to be decent, by all standards J2S should a superior dac. The sound separation is amazing. But I found the vocals very forward. Almost like the singers are in the room. In comparison the Syn dac sounds cleaner with the drums, snares and instruments sounding amazing and really coming alive!!
Its is more relaxed on vocals with the thumps and instruments really shining. Perfect for laid back listening while still being accurate.
I'm really curious how things will sound by using Syn dac for surrounds and have the mains on Geshelli J2S.
Too bad I'll have to wait till next year to find out.
Have you all had a chance to play around with the dacs and had any observations?

 

[Skip Pack]

Hi, I'm using a ProtoDAC 1387 X8 hat dac on an RPi4B (look at moodeaudio.org) with my Syn in a 3 channel setup. I've built several ProtoDACs to test component variations and am very happy with the latest. Not really directly informative to your situation.

The one thing worth mentioning is that the Syn will only use one 2 channel input at a time, so I doubt that you can simultaneously use the internal dac and the Geshelli at the same time. Please let me know if it can be done.

 

[Tbone289]

The one thing worth mentioning is that the Syn will only use one 2 channel input at a time, so I doubt that you can simultaneously use the internal dac and the Geshelli at the same time. Please let me know if it can be done.

It can't. One input at a time, either internal DAC or analog inputs. As you stated, it's just a two-channel device on the input, and the center and surrounds are created from those two channels. So, you can't feed the center or surrounds from a separate input.

The internal DAC is a good delta-sigma DAC--on par with the Modi, which uses the same ESS9018 chip. I'm using a Bifrost Multibit with my SYN only because I need coax input. I don't necessarily consider it a vast improvement, just that it now has the more organic sound and better layering of multibit. I'll be upgrading to a Bifrost 2 next week and will be interested to see what improvements that will bring, as I believe the SYN scales well with higher-quality DACs.

 

[Raveron89]

Apologies for any confusion.
What I meant was, as Syn feeds full signals to the main L & R, I will use the optical in to geshelli j2s to the mains.
I'll use a optical splitter to feed the same optical signal to the Syn to extract the center and surrounds and feed that to other speakers.
Geshelli J2S vocals in the main and Syn instruments in the surrounds is what I'll be going for.
Not sure how it will pan out but if it works out how I think it will, it will be golden.

 

[Tbone289]

Apologies for any confusion.
What I meant was, as Syn feeds full signals to the main L & R, I will use the optical in to geshelli j2s to the mains.
I'll use a optical splitter to feed the same optical signal to the Syn to extract the center and surrounds and feed that to other speakers.
Geshelli J2S vocals in the main and Syn instruments in the surrounds is what I'll be going for.
Not sure how it will pan out but if it works out how I think it will, it will be golden.

OK. What is acting as preamp after the J2s, and how will you synchronize gain changes between the mains and center/surround?