Schiit saga and aagard 2

[Dany Vaknin]

Hello to everybody.
I am new in this forum and i realy apperciate to recieve instrucrion how to improve my music sound in my hometheater system.

I have the following components:

Reciver - yamaha rxa 3060
Turntable - pro ject 2xeprience classic
Phono preamp - schiit mani
Oppo udp 203
Defenitive Technology Speakers - 2 x studio monitor 65 + 4 x procinima 1000 + 1 x procenter 2000 + supercube 6000.

I have also hifiman he400i headphone.

My system is build espcialy for home theater and the yamaha is the heart of the system with him i control everthing including 3 zones.

I have the follong cinfigueation

Zone 1 - 7 speakers + sub
Zone 2- 2 speakers + sub
Zone 3 - streo speaker.

I have the following speakers all of them made by definitive technology.

Zone 1- 2x studio monitor 65 + 4x procenima 1000 + 1x procenter 2000 + supercube 6000

Zone 2 outdoor - 2x AW6500 + polk audio sub 10 + subamp made by speakercraft.

Zone 3 outdoor- 1x polk audio atruim 8 sdi.

my goals:

1. I would like ro improve my turtable sound. I already has the mani.
2. I would like ro improve my oppo sound when i play cd.
3. I would like to have headphone amp.

It seems to me that the saga can improve my phone sound or maybe to replace the mani with a new phono preamp wii be better and the asgard can add gain to the oppo + headphone.

But i have problem to define all components conection as you can see below.

For the headphones - Reciever preamp output to asgard input.

For the turntable - turntable to mani to saga input 1 saga output 1 to reciever audio input 1

For the oppo - oppo front l/r to asgard input ????(i have only one) asgard output to saga input 2 saga output 1 to reciever audio input 2.

Any help will be higly apperciate.

 

[theveterans]

Saga will add tube flavor and depending on tubes, soundstage and instrument positioning will be different.

I don't recommend Asgard 2 to Saga and just go from oppo to saga to receiver (as power amp) as to me the Asgard's preamp function is shared with headphone amp function so it has the same amount of gain as the headphone amp.

 

[buke9]

Just have to say running a turntable through a AVR is not the best thing as I'm doing it and not loving it. If you are running the turntable thru it and using the Dobly or whatever else the AVR has you are killing the sound as it is only for two channel. I have a AT-LP120 and using a Mani also it helped a lot as the onboard pre amp and the phono input of my Denon AVR-3310Ci just had no power so the sound suffered. I'm in the process of cutting to pre amp out of the AT as this is supposed to help the sound. I don't think getting a Saga will help you much unless you intend on getting a separate power amp for your mains and using some type of switch to change back to use the AVR for watching movies or TV. I opted for the Freya and it should be here in a couple of days as I use a Adcom GFA-555 as a power amp for my Polk LSi-15's from the pre amp out from the Denon but I'm going for a separate two channel option and will be adding a couple of Vidars at the end of the year to replace the Adcom so I don't see where the Saga fits in.

 

[Dany Vaknin]

Thank you for your replay.
You recomand me to build a sepeate system for the turntable.
You do not think that a better phono preamp will make change with my reciever?
If i will build a seprate system for hifi does the following compnents will make the job?

Existing - turntable + mani + 2xDF SM 65
Do i need to add the aupercube 6000? How can i conect it to both system?
Schiit Vidar poweramp.
Asgard 2 + hifiman he400i

 

[Dany Vaknin]

Saga will add tube flavor and depending on tubes, soundstage and instrument positioning will be different.

I don't recommend Asgard 2 to Saga and just go from oppo to saga to receiver (as power amp) as to me the Asgard's preamp function is shared with headphone amp function so it has the same amount of gain as the headphone amp.

 

[Dany Vaknin]

Do you think the saga will improve the sound of the mani?
I need a litrle gain for the oppo from where i can get it?
Do you think it will be better to build a seprate systwm foe the turntable with schiit vidar + mani + saga without the yamaha reciver?
Or maybe ro dind high hand phono preamp insted of mani and uswd it with rhe yamaha?

 

[buke9]

I didn't say you needed to build a separate system but that is what I'm doing. Im just going to use a Schiit Sys to switch between the AVR and the Freya. I'm not too versed on phono pre amps so not for sure if the Mani is a good one compared to others it just had the gain I needed so I'm happy. I'm sure more expensive ones would be better but how much is the question you can spend thousands on one just not sure how much better it will be. You might want to check AudioKarma or other sites like that for a more knowledgeable answer on that. No need to run pre amp out of the Asgard to another pre amp like others have said run the Oppo into the Saga if you get one. As for a headphone amp the 400i's aren't very hard to drive but do better with a amp so something that would go with the sound signature your looking for. I tend to have bright headphones and run them thru a warmer amp but that is me. Have only heard the i's a few times but do own the 400S and 400's.

 

[Dany Vaknin]

I think i am lake of basic knowledge what exactly saga and freya for.

I will pperciate if you can explain me in simple words what is the meaning of to "balance" inputs and outputs.

In order to control volume/inputs/outputs i already have it in the reciever.

I have tried to understand from schiit web site but it is still not clear to me.

As you said in this audio field you can invest a lot of money and nobody will promise you that you will be satisfied.

In visual system it is much more clear to see the defferance.

I just want to understand in simple word what is passive pre amp? Does the sound of mani + saga will be more clear and detail than the only mani? How can i get extra gain for the oppo?

In Israel i did not find sombody who has experience and knowledge about schiit items.

 

[theveterans]

I just want to understand in simple word what is passive pre amp?

Passive preamp means signal aren't accentuated at max volume of the preamp. Its gain is unity meaning all the gain of input is only multiplied by 1 so the output has the same gain as the input.

Passive preamps are used by purists (IMO particularly Chord DAC fans, as their DAC itself has a very simple preamp stage to preserve transparency) to ensure that the signal outputted by DAC aren't colored or altered in anyway.

Saga in tube mode adds tube flavor to a degree but not more volume output as it is a hybrid tube buffer only instead of a full blown tube preamp, but like always with passive preamps -> garbage in, garbage out. To gain extra, you need to buy Freya as the tubes are used for gain stage so you will get a much higher volume output. Freya in tube mode is all tubes in every stage so the tube effect is more pronounced than Saga.

 

[theveterans]

Going back to your original question,

To add a better sound to your OPPO blu-ray, you can get a Schiit DAC instead of a preamp between Oppo and receiver, but you must tell your OPPO to decode the Dolby sound in to STEREO PCM or else garbled sound will come out of your speakers.

As for turntable, you can add Saga to add tube flavor, but sound is obviously subjective to the listener.

For headphone listening, just skip your receiver and hook up your Asgard 2 straight from Saga's other preamp out.

Of course the above would be my starting point and the system would need to be a/bed to see if the sound gets better or worse to the listener.

 

[Dany Vaknin]

Do you think that the freya will be a better choice than the saga?

Turntable - does i need the mani if i will have the freya?

Oppo - i pressume that i will get the extra gain with the freya?

Headphone - how i connect the sgard 2 to the freya?

Future planing - which aditional comonents i will need in order to have seprate hifi system for the turntable?

 

[theveterans]

Q1 yes since it has a gain of 5 and should boost your volume:

Tube Gain
Gain: 5 (14dB)
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db, 3Hz-200KHz, -3dB
THD: <0.01%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 2V RMS
IMD: <0.01%, CCIR
SNR: >95db, A-weighted, referenced to 1V RMS
Output Impedance: 210 ohms
Topology: differential input/output, pure triode, with low impedance followers

Q2 - You need Mani. You can connect the mani to freya to control the volume remotely and boost volume
Q3 - correct

Q4 - connect asgard 2 after freya then use low gain on the Asgard.

Future planning - Freya pretty much combines all of your sources (turn table or digital or even TV analog or blu-ray player analog) into 2 speaker systems (one balanced and one unbalanced) a single ended headphone rig.

 

[Dany Vaknin]

I want to thank you for your suport.
You help me to very much.
It seems to me that i will purchase the asgard 2 and the saga.
I have decided to purchase the saga ans not the freya because of the following reaaons:
1. I did not recieve and promises that it will improve rhe sound.
2. Freya cost more than twice including shipment and taxes.
3. I am new in this field. I think that i have to gain experience first. Especialy to see how it in integrated with my reciever.
4. My space is very small so the ferya can be to big.
5. Some says that the sound of the saga is better than the freya.
6. For the time been the oppo is not may main concen.

 

[Dany Vaknin]

Q1 yes since it has a gain of 5 and should boost your volume:

Tube Gain
Gain: 5 (14dB)
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db, 3Hz-200KHz, -3dB
THD: <0.01%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 2V RMS
IMD: <0.01%, CCIR
SNR: >95db, A-weighted, referenced to 1V RMS
Output Impedance: 210 ohms
Topology: differential input/output, pure triode, with low impedance followers

Q2 - You need Mani. You can connect the mani to freya to control the volume remotely and boost volume
Q3 - correct

Q4 - connect asgard 2 after freya then use low gain on the Asgard.

Future planning - Freya pretty much combines all of your sources (turn table or digital or even TV analog or blu-ray player analog) into 2 speaker systems (one balanced and one unbalanced) a single ended headphone rig.

 

[Dany Vaknin]

Q1 yes since it has a gain of 5 and should boost your volume:

Tube Gain
Gain: 5 (14dB)
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.2db, 3Hz-200KHz, -3dB
THD: <0.01%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 2V RMS
IMD: <0.01%, CCIR
SNR: >95db, A-weighted, referenced to 1V RMS
Output Impedance: 210 ohms
Topology: differential input/output, pure triode, with low impedance followers

Q2 - You need Mani. You can connect the mani to freya to control the volume remotely and boost volume
Q3 - correct

Q4 - connect asgard 2 after freya then use low gain on the Asgard.

Future planning - Freya pretty much combines all of your sources (turn table or digital or even TV analog or blu-ray player analog) into 2 speaker systems (one balanced and one unbalanced) a single ended headphone rig.

I will apperciate if you can help me which dac will be more auited to my system.

Schiit modi 2 - uber od mb
Biforst - ds or mb