Schiit Lyr+ : Impressions Thread
Apr 10, 2024 at 8:41 PM Post #1,306 of 1,355
If I were interested in a Jot 2 I'd probably just buy one secondhand because they pop up pretty regularly for a pretty significant discount. I have not heard the Jot 2 but I have read comparisons between it and the SS mode of the Lyr+, saying they were comparable. Having said that, the SS mode doesn't hold a candle to tube mode, and you can take that mode as far as you want depending on what you want to spend on a tube. Cheap ones still sound good but higher priced ones can sound heavenly.

SS mode is mostly there if your tube(s) failed and you're waiting for a new one in the mail.
 
Apr 10, 2024 at 8:49 PM Post #1,307 of 1,355
Having just acquired my Lyr+ less than a month ago and being freshly arrived from having used exclusively SS at multiple price levels, I have to say, one of the things that most impresses me about the Lyr+ is the transparency and detail resolution. I'm not even using expensive tubes. The Apos Ray Select and the Electro Harminix with the gold leads have me incredibly entertained. The Lyr+ is one hell of a value. Mine is sitting on top of a $3000 Violectric which is still unplugged.
 
Apr 10, 2024 at 10:59 PM Post #1,308 of 1,355
That might be your queue to go with the Jot 2, then.
Where are you located, if you don't mind me asking?
Ideally there might be a LYR+ owner within driving distance and you can get an audition.
To my ears the LYR+ in tube/hybrid mode is [definitely] audibly different from, and subjectively more enjoyable than, in SS mode.
Thank you for following up.

The only OTHER variable that I'm considering is that I know I WILL be heavily EQ-ing the HD800s. A bass and treble boost culminating in about 6db of boost at the highest and lowest frequencies. Basically just making the headphones more U shaped, while retaining the open-ness and detail of the 800s, and their ability to play classical music when not running the EQ.

So a part of me goes "well if a tube amp is good because it changes the sound... But Im going to be changing the sound anyway with EQ then what's the point of the tube amp?"

I actually made a whole thread about it, and the conversation was good, people explained there's more to tube amps than just frequency response. There's harmonics and distortion and all manner of witchcraft above my pay grade.

The question is.... Can - I - hear it? Not you or someone else, but me, with my apparently crappy ears. The problem is, I have no way to figure that out by testing, as I don't have access to many audio shops, especially not ones with quality tube amps, and CERTAINLY not ones with hybrids that would allow for direct A/B testing. So, I sorta have to just make a leap of faith. A very expensive leap. I'm in Canada, btw, Ontario.

I've had Jot 2 and now Lyr+

The Lyr in Solid state is every bit of the amp the Jot 2 is but just a smidge of warmth. The Lyr however takes out the Jot 2 when you go into tube mode. It creates a nice 3D soundstage, and can be farther colored depending on the tube. All the details and clarity you can want.

I used to think warmth = veil but that's just not true. You can have warmth and still be super detailed

Glad to hear that you find the ss side of the lyr to be at least on-par with the jot 2. You mention soundstage and detail, but what I find interesting is those are some of the same benefits that people talk about when describing balanced amplification. The jotunheim 2 is fully balanced, as is the Modius DAC, and as is the HD800s, so, with that stack, I could enjoy fully balanced audio. With the lyr, I have to leave that behind. Thing is, I don't really know WHAT I'd be leaving behind exactly, and whether I gain even more from the lyr, to offset that loss.
@Xerosnake90 THANK YOU!!!

@TyTB . . . What say you now???

:blush: :blush: :blush:

Haha I say I am still a very confused person.

So many factors, so much contradiction, so many people advocating very well for their preferred platform.
Having just acquired my Lyr+ less than a month ago and being freshly arrived from having used exclusively SS at multiple price levels, I have to say, one of the things that most impresses me about the Lyr+ is the transparency and detail resolution. I'm not even using expensive tubes. The Apos Ray Select and the Electro Harminix with the gold leads have me incredibly entertained. The Lyr+ is one hell of a value. Mine is sitting on top of a $3000 Violectric which is still unplugged.

Thanks for chiming in. So you also feel that the lyr is giving you a cleaner, more detailed sound than your Ss amps? Do you mind listing some of the Ss amps you used (or are they all in your signature there?)

I checked out the two tubes you mentioned. I don't think I'm ever really going to be the type to roll tubes. Those Apos Ray tubes were $160, way beyond what I'll ever afford. Even the $62 Electro Harmonix ones were pricey for me. $25-35 would be ideal.

The Lyr would be a financial stretch for me as is, though I would be buying it used so there's some good value there. By going with the jot2, I'm getting balanced output for about $250 cad to $350 less, which is... Well its not nothing.

But what really matters to me is not that I save every penny if it means getting the lesser product. I'd rather spend more and have no need to ever upgrade for the next 10+ years, IF that is indeed what the Lyr+ is --- better in every way than the jot 2
 
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Apr 11, 2024 at 2:23 AM Post #1,309 of 1,355
The question is.... Can - I - hear it? Not you or someone else, but me, with my apparently crappy ears. The problem is, I have no way to figure that out by testing, as I don't have access to many audio shops, especially not ones with quality tube amps, and CERTAINLY not ones with hybrids that would allow for direct A/B testing. So, I sorta have to just make a leap of faith. A very expensive leap. I'm in Canada, btw, Ontario.
I bought 2 lyr+ with 6 differents tubes to make a 1:1 comparison with an RCA box that allowed me to switch from one amp to the other without sound cut. Disappointement was my findings so I sold them (still got one hanging around for sale). Maybe it's better to just buy it and enjoy it. Don't push the blind testing part too far if you like it ^^
 
Apr 11, 2024 at 3:25 AM Post #1,310 of 1,355
The Lyr would be a financial stretch for me as is, though I would be buying it used so there's some good value there. By going with the jot2, I'm getting balanced output for about $250 cad to $350 less, which is... Well its not nothing.

But what really matters to me is not that I save every penny if it means getting the lesser product. I'd rather spend more and have no need to ever upgrade for the next 10+ years, IF that is indeed what the Lyr+ is --- better in every way than the jot 2
Have you ever seen The Good Place? It's a show about a cast of characters that got sent to hell under the pretense that they're actually in heaven. One character named Chidi was sent to hell due to his inability to make just the simplest of choices. He had so much fear of making the wrong choice that he'd over analyze every micro detail which in turn made the people around him absolutely miserable.

It's you. You're Chidi

Jokes aside, you're going to enjoy either amp
 
Apr 11, 2024 at 9:14 AM Post #1,311 of 1,355
Thank you for following up.

The only OTHER variable that I'm considering is that I know I WILL be heavily EQ-ing the HD800s. A bass and treble boost culminating in about 6db of boost at the highest and lowest frequencies. Basically just making the headphones more U shaped, while retaining the open-ness and detail of the 800s, and their ability to play classical music when not running the EQ.

So a part of me goes "well if a tube amp is good because it changes the sound... But Im going to be changing the sound anyway with EQ then what's the point of the tube amp?"

I actually made a whole thread about it, and the conversation was good, people explained there's more to tube amps than just frequency response. There's harmonics and distortion and all manner of witchcraft above my pay grade.

The question is.... Can - I - hear it? Not you or someone else, but me, with my apparently crappy ears. The problem is, I have no way to figure that out by testing, as I don't have access to many audio shops, especially not ones with quality tube amps, and CERTAINLY not ones with hybrids that would allow for direct A/B testing. So, I sorta have to just make a leap of faith. A very expensive leap. I'm in Canada, btw, Ontario.



Glad to hear that you find the ss side of the lyr to be at least on-par with the jot 2. You mention soundstage and detail, but what I find interesting is those are some of the same benefits that people talk about when describing balanced amplification. The jotunheim 2 is fully balanced, as is the Modius DAC, and as is the HD800s, so, with that stack, I could enjoy fully balanced audio. With the lyr, I have to leave that behind. Thing is, I don't really know WHAT I'd be leaving behind exactly, and whether I gain even more from the lyr, to offset that loss.


Haha I say I am still a very confused person.

So many factors, so much contradiction, so many people advocating very well for their preferred platform.


Thanks for chiming in. So you also feel that the lyr is giving you a cleaner, more detailed sound than your Ss amps? Do you mind listing some of the Ss amps you used (or are they all in your signature there?)

I checked out the two tubes you mentioned. I don't think I'm ever really going to be the type to roll tubes. Those Apos Ray tubes were $160, way beyond what I'll ever afford. Even the $62 Electro Harmonix ones were pricey for me. $25-35 would be ideal.

The Lyr would be a financial stretch for me as is, though I would be buying it used so there's some good value there. By going with the jot2, I'm getting balanced output for about $250 cad to $350 less, which is... Well its not nothing.

But what really matters to me is not that I save every penny if it means getting the lesser product. I'd rather spend more and have no need to ever upgrade for the next 10+ years, IF that is indeed what the Lyr+ is --- better in every way than the jot 2
Since you're concerned about budget, here's a quick reality check: you could just buy a midgard for way less than either option, delete your head-fi account, and be happy with it your whole life. Modern sound equipment is so good that all these points of debate are at best the last 10%. Spending too much time on forums is what causes FOMO and this overanalyzing.
 
Apr 11, 2024 at 9:34 AM Post #1,312 of 1,355
@TyTB I completely understand your decision-making anxiety, especially given your budgetary constraints. Sometimes I simply toss a coin!

That said, I think the LYR+ should give you a good taste of Schiit's SS sound and, IMHO, a [discernably] better taste of their tube/hybrid sound--all in one component. The LYR+ seems to be holding its resale value pretty well, too.

Also, since you have [apparently] already made a sizeable investment in your HD800S . . .
 
Apr 11, 2024 at 9:56 AM Post #1,313 of 1,355
Have you ever seen The Good Place? It's a show about a cast of characters that got sent to hell under the pretense that they're actually in heaven. One character named Chidi was sent to hell due to his inability to make just the simplest of choices. He had so much fear of making the wrong choice that he'd over analyze every micro detail which in turn made the people around him absolutely miserable.

It's you. You're Chidi

Jokes aside, you're going to enjoy either amp
You are not the first person in my life to make this comparison. Although I don't like the show very much, a lot of people feel I am Chidi.

As my mother once said though, the only reason I have to fret this much is because I'm broke. If I had money, I would just buy whatever I desired, and wouldn't have to think so critically about it. If it ends up being the wrong product, oh well, just resell it and buy something else. What's a $100 loss when you're making 350k a year?

The problem is, when you're broke, and have been saving for a purchase for LITERALLY SEVEN YEARS in this case, any mistake represents a massive setback. If I get the wrong amp, have to resell it, and take that loss, it presents a massive loss of time and work for me. So, sweating every detail.
Since you're concerned about budget, here's a quick reality check: you could just buy a midgard for way less than either option, delete your head-fi account, and be happy with it your whole life. Modern sound equipment is so good that all these points of debate are at best the last 10%. Spending too much time on forums is what causes FOMO and this overanalyzing.
Haha yeah, I know. People all said that headphones represent 85% of the audio, with music files representing 10%, and the source gear being the last 5%.

And seeing as I couldn't hear more than a 15-20% difference between the 6XX's and the HD800s, so 20% of 85%, it's very doubtful that I'll be able to hear a 10% difference in the 5% category that is source gear. Following this logic, it makes more sense to save money and buy the Jot 2. Or go even cheaper and just buy a JD's atom stack, which objectively measures better than anything from schiit.

The problem is I then read more threads and articles, and people use SUCH STRONG descriptors. They talk like such and such amp absolutely revolutionized their listening experience. That such and such DAC absolutely transformed their music. They make it sound like a 200% difference of a 100% category. I gotta remind myself that it's 5% of 5%.
@TyTB I completely understand your decision-making anxiety, especially given your budgetary constraints. Sometimes I simply toss a coin!

That said, I think the LYR+ should give you a good taste of Schiit's SS sound and, IMHO, a [discernably] better taste of their tube/hybrid sound--all in one component. The LYR+ seems to be holding its resale value pretty well, too.

Also, since you have [apparently] already made a sizeable investment in your HD800S . . .
Yeah. When two products can be compared to reveal a clear winner, I'm good to make a decision. The problem comes when products are almost the same in performance. When there's no CLEAR winner, the decision has to come down to secondary buying traits, like looks, build quality, colour, general "feel", etc. Stuff that arguably doesn't really matter, and which is very subjective. This makes it hard for me to make a decision and feel confident in it. Like you said, it's about flipping a coin. The flip reveals more than the coin does, as in the moment you flip it, you suddenly know which answer you're hoping for.

And for me, I know ahead of time that it's the Lyr. I've had my eyes set on a tube amp from schiit since the days of Valhalla 1. Problem is, I also am rational enough to have dissected that desire, and can admit freely that I don't actually have a REASON to want the lyr as much as I do. It's just a random whim, because I like how tubes look. That's it. I think tubes are neat, cause I'm young enough to have never seen one in person. There's no actual substantive backing for my desire. No actual REASON to want it. Especially considering that the novelty will wear off shortly after purchase. So is another X-hundred dollars really justified for such a flimsy reason?

Im just speaking rhetorically here, to give you all some insight to my psychosis, and why it's seemingly so difficult to make a decision. No clear winner means buying things based on a whim and personal preference. But how does one determine exactly how much money personal preference and whim deserve?


P.s. If anyone wants to tackle the subject, I am still curious as to why/how its worth giving up balanced output on the Jot 2 for tube sound on the Lyr. A lot of people claim balanced sound provides more detail and resolution and clarity, all the same things people claim certain tube amps offer, like the Lyr.
 
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Apr 11, 2024 at 10:27 AM Post #1,314 of 1,355
P.s. If anyone wants to tackle the subject, I am still curious as to why/how its worth giving up balanced output on the Jot 2 for tube sound on the Lyr. A lot of people claim balanced sound provides more detail and resolution and clarity, all the same things people claim certain tube amps offer, like the Lyr.
@Xerosnake90 ^^^^^^^This question is for you.^^^^^^^
 
Apr 11, 2024 at 11:21 AM Post #1,315 of 1,355
When balanced output sounds better than single ended it's generally because the balanced circuit is better designed than the single ended and not because balanced is inherently better. In the case of the Jot 2 balanced does sound better but it doesn't necessarily mean it sounds better than the single ended output of another amp. In this case all of the work has gone into designing the single ended output of the Lyr+, so it should sound as good as Jason could make it.
 
Apr 11, 2024 at 12:02 PM Post #1,316 of 1,355
@Xerosnake90 ^^^^^^^This question is for you.^^^^^^^
When balanced output sounds better than single ended it's generally because the balanced circuit is better designed than the single ended and not because balanced is inherently better. In the case of the Jot 2 balanced does sound better but it doesn't necessarily mean it sounds better than the single ended output of another amp. In this case all of the work has gone into designing the single ended output of the Lyr+, so it should sound as good as Jason could make it.
Long story short, balanced on Jot 2 sounds better because it outputs a higher amount of wattage. Almost 4 times as much compared to its single ended output.

Lyr+ in comparison is closer to the power output of Jot 2 balanced. So the argument is Balanced vs unbalanced in regards to the Jot 2 itself, not Balanced vs unbalanced across all amps.

Jot 2 certainly sounds better when you use it balanced. I'd say when it comes to more power you'll hear larger soundstage, more clarity/details, and harder hitting bass.

Lyr sounds like a slightly warmer Jot 2 in SS mode. Tube mode introduces even better timbre, staging and imaging takes on a 3D feel. It's every bit as detailed but also smoother, makes harsh treble less edged.

Further add to that you can tube roll to farther customize your sound. You want tons of detail? You got it. You want more bass? Have at it. Larger soundstage and 3D sound? All yours

For me it's very clear that Lyr+ from top to bottom is better than Jot 2. The only reason to get a Jot 2 instead of Lyr+ is because you want to some money.

That said Jot 2 is a killer amp and more than enough.
 
Apr 12, 2024 at 4:00 AM Post #1,319 of 1,355
The problem is, when you're broke, and have been saving for a purchase for LITERALLY SEVEN YEARS in this case, any mistake represents a massive setback. If I get the wrong amp, have to resell it, and take that loss, it presents a massive loss of time and work for me. So, sweating every detail.

If it helps set your mind at ease, the Lyr+ is the most versatile option among those you're considering, for reasons you can probably discern. On the technical side (detail, clarity, staging, etc) it cannot disappoint. It's among the best in its price. The only variable to concern yourself with is tonality, and while the Schiit house sound is generally VERY agreeable with any headphone, here too you have less to worry about given all the options the Lyr+ gives you to tweak the sound.
 
Apr 12, 2024 at 7:26 AM Post #1,320 of 1,355
Not a Lyr +, but I have a Lyr 3 and it has completely changed my old perception about tubes (I blame Cayin and Woo Audio for this). I used to be a solid state guy and I've just recently sold my V281 to go further the rabbit hole with a full tubed amp.
 

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