Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up

[roderickvd]

And, finally, with respect to Yggdrasil, we’re taking the unprecedented step of pre-announcing details of the Yggdrasil Singular, AKA Byggy, and enabling current Yggdrasil owners to sign up to be first in line for upgrades this summer. There’s even a free upgrade option for everyone who bought an Yggdrasil from us. The reservation page will be up tomorrow.

Cool. Looking for that reservation page… is it up yet?

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Cool. Looking for that reservation page… is it up yet?

It'll be up on Monday.

 

[fusion5]

Very much looking forward to all the byggy information. Depending on that I'll sort out what my 2nd DAC will be.

 

[Les Strat]

The file itself doesn't matter. What you're comparing is different ways to interpret the original PCM data and different ways to store that data on your drives to optimize for space, not the actual audio data contained within the files after they've been uncompressed and processed back to their original state.
(This obviously only applies to actually lossless formats like WAV and FLAC, not lossy ones or those now-obsolete formats who shall remain unnamed that liked to pretend to be lossless.)

I've spent quite a few weekends recently doing a real world deep dive into figuring out why an audio stream from an Urd via Unison into a headphone setup sounds different than a bit-perfect rip of that very same disc streamed from my Mac through Unison to the exact same DAC and headphone setup.

The results were interesting, and what I've learned will likely find its way into future products.

But for now, what I'll say is this:
At least for the way our DACs are implemented, the PCM data that the DAC ultimately "sees" is all that actually matters. And depending on what's happening in the player software or the operating system's or a third party's system-wide sound mixer (if not bypassed in some way or another) you can get a different result from the very same audio data, no matter in what format that data was stored, depending on how that data is being played back (in the case of your computer) or the medium that the data was stored on (in the case of a computer versus a transport, for example). What counts is that the decoded, uncompressed PCM data that eventually enters the DAC is the same in all cases. If it is, there's no appreciable difference—audible or measurable—in the resulting analog output of your DAC.

(And before someone complains: With Unison, even the "cleanliness" of the signal (i.e. lack of jitter or ringing in the actual, physical signal) doesn't matter, at least not up to the point where you run into buffer underflows due to dropped or otherwise unreadable frames. And if you get to that point, something's seriously broken anyway. With SPDIF, the cleanliness of the source can matter to a degree under certain circumstances and might make a difference, even if the PCM data being transmitted remains precisely the same.)

Well Martin, I am sure I'm not the only one on the forum who will be really interested in the findings from your 'deep dive' into the difference in sound quality between a physical CD and a streamed, bit-perfect rip of the same disc.

Even more interesting is how these findings might influence future Schiit products...

The difference in sound quality between physical CDs and streams of ripped copies, has always been a mystery to me ( not that that says a lot)

I always remember Linn proclaiming that the future of digital music replay was with streaming, not CD players/transporters.
That was about 15 years ago!
The company was so convinced that they stopped making their CD players, which were generally well regarded, and focussed entirely on streamers.

I understood the logic as it would appear that a CD transport has a lot to do to read a disc in real time, whereas a ripped disc on a hard drive should, in theory be easier to 'read' when sent to a DAC.

It seems that things are not that simple!

If you ( and your colleagues) get to the bottom of this, I think it will be a genuine breakthrough in digital audio

Some manufacturers of very expensive streamers, still regard a good CD transport as the benchmark to strive for.

For many years, my only digital replay was via streamed copies of bit- perfect CDs which I had ripped to a networked hard drive.

My ancient CD player was stored in a box in the loft.

It was Mike Moffat's comments, many years ago, about the superiority of CD transports ( into good DACs) over streamers that made me decide to buy a CD transport.

I held out for several years waiting for the 'Urd' to be launched and to run through my OG Yggy and even fitted Unison USB board in readiness, but in the end impatience got the better of me and I bought a CD transport from another manufacturer.
Sorry Mike!

Mike was right ( as I had expected) but the difference surprised me.

I much preferred the sound of physical CDs played on a CD transport, to ripped copies of the same discs, streamed to the same DAC.

I have since made some tweaks to my streaming system which has now got it so close to CD playback that I can barely tell them apart.

I won't say what they are on the forum as I will be opening myself up to ridicule; even I thought that one of the 'tweaks' was pure 'snake oil' BS, but I was persuaded to try it on a sale or return basis... and I kept it.

It seems inevitable, that eventually, people like @ArmchairPhilosopher , Jason, Mike and the team at Schiit, will work out exactly what it is that makes CD transports sound different ( most people think 'better') than streamers.

Once that happens, Schiit will have another game-changer on their hands.

 

[JohnnyOps]

I have since made some tweaks to my streaming system which has now got it so close to CD playback that I can barely tell them apart.

I won't say what they are on the forum as I will be opening myself up to ridicule; even I thought that one of the 'tweaks' was pure 'snake oil' BS, but I was persuaded to try it on a sale or return basis... and I kept it.

What if I promise not to make fun of you? (I guess I can't speak for others). But enquiring minds want to know!

 

[AstronomerXI]

There's a thread on SBAF on the Mimir with an early, subjective, and single data-point impression:

"After a bit more listening, again it's interesting. The filter makes the Mimir...70% sounding like their ol' multibit DACs because of the (MegaComboBurrito) filter.

In fact, I'd say the depth is deeper than the BF2/64 from front to back. There is greater distance from vocalists (who are often put on front by sound mixers) than the instruments and backup singers near the back of the soundstage".

There's more commentary from the one poster, but that's the kind of information that I'm looking for. Shot in the dark if there'll ever be a comparison at any time anywhere with the OG Gumby or another brand's R2R DAC, but one can hope.

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...t-mimir-mesh-and-forkbeard-dac-preview.15060/

 

[FuerstRalph]

Amazing effort from Jason

 

[sickmonkey]

Had the same experience with the Ultra.
When I got my Yggy GS2 I thought there was something off with the sound. I even posted some stuff on here being sceptical and what not.
Turned out, that bright and shrilly sound disappeared when I just played music thru iPad and Unison or Toslink.
So as practical and good meassuring that Ultra was, it didn't get to stay. Golden ears or placebo? No.
Now it just sounds good with no f**kery in my system ant these ears.

Edit: if anyone knows why this is, feel free to fill in the blancs

Example: I found that I could not listen to the ultra for more than twenty minutes or so. Please make it stop. This morning with my default Mac setup I listened 3 hours straight. 5-8 am. I only stopped for I need to get going for the day.

 

[Pretox]

What if I promise not to make fun of you? (I guess I can't speak for others). But enquiring minds want to know!

Yes, we would all be interested and curious to know what are the tweaks that you had made. Do share with us your findings and tweaks that you did to your streaming system to make it close to CD playback.

 

[Ripper2860]

I won't say what they are on the forum as I will be opening myself up to ridicule; even I thought that one of the 'tweaks' was pure 'snake oil' BS, but I was persuaded to try it on a sale or return basis... and I kept it.

Seriously? You're gonna make a statement like that and then not tell us? You sir are a mean, mean man.


** DM me the particulars.

 

[artur9]

...
More importantly, does this replace the gadget??

Nothing replaces "the gadget."

Folx, am I correct in thinking "the gadget"'s official name is Jord?

.... for the yggdrasils ... Its the only reason I don't buy them right now..... hoping you will release them. AND SOON......no pressure.
...

You can buy the Yggdrasil now, enjoy listening to it for however long it takes for its upgrades to come out, then have it upgraded.
Many manufacturers promise upgrades but Schiit has delivered, somewhat consistently, on that promise for the Yggdrasil.
Heck, there's a fair few forum members who will get their OG Yggy, 10+ years old, upgraded when the above becomes available.
Which, apparently, you'll be able to sign up for on Monday!

...
My IT ‘skills’ are almost non-existent, so a smart phone is a challenge, let alone setting up a PC or software for a streamer
...

You need one of these ( ): https://www.baetisaudio.com/

 

[Les Strat]

Yes, we would all be interested and curious to know what are the tweaks that you had made. Do share with us your findings and tweaks that you did to your streaming system to make close to CD playback.

Thank you both!

I’ll see if I can pluck up the courage to share my extreme ‘audiophoolery’

 

[bagwell359]

My espresso machine was turning out weak brews, double cleaning, and its back to its lovely self - makes such a nice difference reading this thread while I listen to:

and wait for my Kara and Wotan. I wonder when the reconfigured Yggy comes out the G2 will remain in the GigaStack and Schiit will come out with a MegaStack? Doesn't matter to me, because the Gungnir 2 is giga to me...

 

[artur9]

Thank you both!

I’ll see if I can pluck up the courage to share my extreme ‘audiophoolery’

It's not that pejorative term if it works. Double-y not if it works and makes you happy. Infinitely more not if it also works for us and makes us happy, too!

Only "tweak" I ever did was using a prettier speaker cable and finding I liked the sound better than the ugly one. Scientifically, it might be because the ugly one was 20AWG and the pretty one is 8AWG.

 

[binarypie]

Well Martin, I am sure I'm not the only one on the forum who will be really interested in the findings from your 'deep dive' into the difference in sound quality between a physical CD and a streamed, bit-perfect rip of the same disc.

Even more interesting is how these findings might influence future Schiit products...

The difference in sound quality between physical CDs and streams of ripped copies, has always been a mystery to me ( not that that says a lot)

I always remember Linn proclaiming that the future of digital music replay was with streaming, not CD players/transporters.
That was about 15 years ago!
The company was so convinced that they stopped making their CD players, which were generally well regarded, and focussed entirely on streamers.

I understood the logic as it would appear that a CD transport has a lot to do to read a disc in real time, whereas a ripped disc on a hard drive should, in theory be easier to 'read' when sent to a DAC.

It seems that things are not that simple!

If you ( and your colleagues) get to the bottom of this, I think it will be a genuine breakthrough in digital audio

Some manufacturers of very expensive streamers, still regard a good CD transport as the benchmark to strive for.

For many years, my only digital replay was via streamed copies of bit- perfect CDs which I had ripped to a networked hard drive.

My ancient CD player was stored in a box in the loft.

It was Mike Moffat's comments, many years ago, about the superiority of CD transports ( into good DACs) over streamers that made me decide to buy a CD transport.

I held out for several years waiting for the 'Urd' to be launched and to run through my OG Yggy and even fitted Unison USB board in readiness, but in the end impatience got the better of me and I bought a CD transport from another manufacturer.
Sorry Mike!

Mike was right ( as I had expected) but the difference surprised me.

I much preferred the sound of physical CDs played on a CD transport, to ripped copies of the same discs, streamed to the same DAC.

I have since made some tweaks to my streaming system which has now got it so close to CD playback that I can barely tell them apart.

I won't say what they are on the forum as I will be opening myself up to ridicule; even I thought that one of the 'tweaks' was pure 'snake oil' BS, but I was persuaded to try it on a sale or return basis... and I kept it.

It seems inevitable, that eventually, people like @ArmchairPhilosopher , Jason, Mike and the team at Schiit, will work out exactly what it is that makes CD transports sound different ( most people think 'better') than streamers.

Once that happens, Schiit will have another game-changer on their hands.

If you grew up listening to a lot of CD music you'll probably have an exposure bias you may not be aware of. It's like having favorite food flavors.
I have 100s of CDs i've never bothered to rip but I may go drag a few out of the garage to see how they sound.