Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up

[roskodan]

This reminded me about SYN, actually, more exactly, about what the crazy Schiit people could be doing with a future SYN... of the future.

A future with full surround, with just 2 speakers, doing sound hula hoops, concentric balls of sound around your head, with 360 degree surround density, to replace the current, totally wrong and corrupted (by the, but not limited to, McGurk effect), stereo and surround reproduction industry...

all of that and much more in that interview with David Chesky on EnjoyTheMusic by Steven R. Rochlin... about... wait for it... the truth! (about audio reproduction of course )...

featuring the work of Dr. Edgar Choueiri (E.Y. Choueiri Binaural Audio Through Loudspeakers (Ch 5). Immersive Sound: The Art and Science of Binaural and Multi-Channel Audio . Focal Press; 1st edition (October 2017)).

Cheers!

p.s. @Jason Stoddard yup, no wine, sooorryyy... not

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

Long time reader, first time poster ... always interested in the banter, but especially Jason's background stories and the knowledge shared by senior posters like ArmchairPhilosopher.

Very happy owner of two Schiit stacks (different rooms :- different combinations of Modi / MB2 / Loki Mini+ / Magni 3E / Mani / Sys) ... and until now, happy to use WiiM as budget streamer (with a decent UI). But your "hard pass" on WiiM is totally understandable as explained in your excellent teardown and the above follow-up.

Could I ask opinions about snipping the microphone (to stop WiiM listening / forwarding audio) ?
- Is this viable, or is it the connection some sort of embedded PCB track that can't be easily broken ?
- If microphone disconnected, would basic operation be impacted ?
Thanks

Welcome to the thread!

The microphone is soldered directly to the board with the digital circuitry. It's the small black square thing with the golden ring and corner marking on top shown below next to the U2 silkscreen.

If and when you open your WiiM, it'll be covered by a piece of plastic containing another piece of rubber. Those two pieces are there to redirect the sound coming in through the microphone hole in the rear of the case down towards that SMD microphone. Remove the screw that holds the plastic piece in place and it will come right off.

You can theoretically desolder that microphone, but there are two caveats that I'd like you to consider before you try:

1) It's a relatively small part and the solder pads are under it, meaning you won't be able to reach them directly with the tip of a soldering iron. You will need a hot air rework station to get that SMD mic cleanly off the board. You can try to desolder it with a normal soldering iron, but be aware that the area is surrounded by a large filled-in ground plane that will act like a big heat sink. I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up delaminating that ground plane and the mic's traces from the board substrate before the SMD mic so much as budges.
There isn't anything else in the immediate vicinity of that mic on this side of the board, so maybe you feel like risking it. Just make sure that you don't leave any shorts behind between that ground plane and the traces that go to that microphone.

2) Removing the microphone may or may not irreparably brick your unit, even if you managed to remove it cleanly. I haven't looked up the exact part, but the fact that more than just two traces go to it tells me that it's probably got its own AD converter in it and that it outputs a digital signal, either PWM or something like I2S. Which means that the brainbox on that thing might have a way to do some sort of health check on the microphone — whether it's there, whether it responds, stuff like that. So without having tried it myself, I can't tell you for sure whether they have implemented some sort of check either during startup of the device or right before the microphone is to be switched on for whatever reason. And if they have, the device could either just throw an internal error and move on if you are lucky, it could refuse to perform some functions but work just fine otherwise, or it could throw its hands up and refuse to work altogether. Your guess is as good as mine.

Edit:
You could also take a dremel tool with a cutting disc to it (or even just a box cutter, if you feel especially redneck today) and sever all traces that go to that SMD microphone. But again: Make sure not to leave any shorts behind.

 

[bevanc]

Welcome to the thread!

The microphone is soldered directly to the board with the digital circuitry. It's the small black square thing with the golden ring and corner marking on top shown below next to the U2 silkscreen.

If and when you open your WiiM, it'll be covered by a piece of plastic containing another piece of rubber. Those two pieces are there to redirect the sound coming in through the microphone hole in the rear of the case down towards that SMD microphone. Remove the screw that holds the plastic piece in place and it will come right off.



You can theoretically desolder that microphone, but there are two caveats that I'd like you to consider before you try:

1) It's a relatively small part and the solder pads are under it, meaning you won't be able to reach them directly with the tip of a soldering iron. You will need a hot air rework station to get that SMD mic cleanly off the board. You can try to desolder it with a normal soldering iron, but be aware that the area is surrounded by a large filled-in ground plane that will act like a big heat sink. I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up delaminating that ground plane and the mic's traces from the board substrate before the SMD mic so much as budges.
There isn't anything else in the immediate vicinity of that mic on this side of the board, so maybe you feel like risking it. Just make sure that you don't leave any shorts behind between that ground plane and the traces that go to that microphone.

2) Removing the microphone may or may not irreparably brick your unit, even if you managed to remove it cleanly. I haven't looked up the exact part, but the fact that more than just two traces go to it tells me that it's probably got its own AD converter in it and that it outputs a digital signal, either PWM or something like I2S. Which means that the brainbox on that thing might have a way to do some sort of health check on the microphone — whether it's there, whether it responds, stuff like that. So without having tried it myself, I can't tell you for sure whether they have implemented some sort of check either during startup of the device or right before the microphone is to be switched on for whatever reason. And if they have, the device could either just throw an internal error and move on if you are lucky, it could refuse to perform some functions but work just fine otherwise, or it could throw its hands up and refuse to work altogether. Your guess is as good as mine.

Edit:
You could also take a dremel tool with a cutting disc to it (or even just a box cutter, if you feel especially redneck today) and sever all traces that go to that SMD microphone. But again: Make sure not to leave any shorts behind.

Or put a blob of putty or something over it.

 

[earnmyturns]

The iFi Zen seems to be essentially an Airplay 1 device, so no Chromecast or AlexaCast.

I use mine with Roon. It also works with NAA (HQPlayer) and with DLNA (any UPnP/DLNA setup).

 

[corndog71]

Any Kara owners out there? Impressions?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Derrick Swart]

Welcome to the thread!

The microphone is soldered directly to the board with the digital circuitry. It's the small black square thing with the golden ring and corner marking on top shown below next to the U2 silkscreen.

If and when you open your WiiM, it'll be covered by a piece of plastic containing another piece of rubber. Those two pieces are there to redirect the sound coming in through the microphone hole in the rear of the case down towards that SMD microphone. Remove the screw that holds the plastic piece in place and it will come right off.



You can theoretically desolder that microphone, but there are two caveats that I'd like you to consider before you try:

1) It's a relatively small part and the solder pads are under it, meaning you won't be able to reach them directly with the tip of a soldering iron. You will need a hot air rework station to get that SMD mic cleanly off the board. You can try to desolder it with a normal soldering iron, but be aware that the area is surrounded by a large filled-in ground plane that will act like a big heat sink. I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up delaminating that ground plane and the mic's traces from the board substrate before the SMD mic so much as budges.
There isn't anything else in the immediate vicinity of that mic on this side of the board, so maybe you feel like risking it. Just make sure that you don't leave any shorts behind between that ground plane and the traces that go to that microphone.

2) Removing the microphone may or may not irreparably brick your unit, even if you managed to remove it cleanly. I haven't looked up the exact part, but the fact that more than just two traces go to it tells me that it's probably got its own AD converter in it and that it outputs a digital signal, either PWM or something like I2S. Which means that the brainbox on that thing might have a way to do some sort of health check on the microphone — whether it's there, whether it responds, stuff like that. So without having tried it myself, I can't tell you for sure whether they have implemented some sort of check either during startup of the device or right before the microphone is to be switched on for whatever reason. And if they have, the device could either just throw an internal error and move on if you are lucky, it could refuse to perform some functions but work just fine otherwise, or it could throw its hands up and refuse to work altogether. Your guess is as good as mine.

Edit:
You could also take a dremel tool with a cutting disc to it (or even just a box cutter, if you feel especially redneck today) and sever all traces that go to that SMD microphone. But again: Make sure not to leave any shorts behind.

would cover it in hot glue solve the mic issue? wiim could still identify the 'user' then?

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

Or put a blob of putty or something over it.

A blob of putty or hot snot might work as well, yes. But it won't entirely defeat the microphone, it might just muffle things a bit. Probably enough, but if you want to be sure, you'll have to do a few tests to be certain.

 

[mikecheck95]

Does schiit currently offer any DAC with the same footprint as the Mjolnir 3? Will they in the near future?

 

[Dr. Cube]

Does schiit currently offer any DAC with the same footprint as the Mjolnir 3? Will they in the near future?

That was Gungnir, which is on a manufacturing hiatus because of parts availability. Based on public communications, it's unclear what the future is for that model. If you're happy with just having the same width (and not depth), then there's Yggdrasil.

 

[Lvivske]

using a dremel on a multiplayer pcb? please no one do this, do the putty thing, or just block it in a firewall on your router or something

 

[mjstealey]

Does schiit currently offer any DAC with the same footprint as the Mjolnir 3? Will they in the near future?

Gungnir filled that niche nicely until recently - they do pop up on the used market in silver pretty frequently (I've never seen a black one in the wild)

Singularity might fill that chassis size-role in the future, but no idea when that is going to make it to market ...

 

[bdem1]

You mean like Ragnarok 2?

I mean, except Ragnarok 2 has a single Nexus gain stage (better than preamp+power amp in one box), with switchable gain for headphone use, and a relay stepped attenuator, as well as modularity for the future.

Hi Jason. Would a Rag 3?....with chokes make sense?...how about an added 2/64 bifrost expansion card equivalent

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

using a dremel on a multiplayer pcb? please no one do this

Generally good advice, of course, but I don't think it applies in this case. I checked before I wrote the dremel comment, and I'm pretty certain it's a two-layer board. I don't have an x-ray setup handy, but all of the vias that I can see come back out the other end.

Though your advice still stands, regardless: If you can't be sure, don't take a dremel to it. And if you do, know that you do so at your own risk.

do the putty thing

As I've said: Won't defeat the microphone for certain, might just muffle it. Could be sufficient, but might not be.

or just block it in a firewall on your router or something

This will break your streaming capabilities as well if you block the entire device. If you block just the right ports, you'll have to figure out which ones to block first, and hope that they won't be used for any other functionality the device might consider "crucial" for its operation.


And just to clarify:
I'm not arguing against any of this. It's all very good and solid advice. All I'm trying to say is that I don't understand why anyone would buy this device in the first place. If you don't have a good reason to trust the manufacturer to be honest with how they use the microphones that they ask you to install all over your home for them, and if you can't really reliably defeat those microphones without running the risk of bricking your device, then don't buy their products.

And this doesn't just apply to this particular manufacturer of audio and TV streamers that just so happens to be Chinese, it applies to everyone, including Amazon, Alphabet, Meta, Apple, and pretty much all car or "smart" phone/watch/speaker/door bell/TV/younameit manufacturers.

Apple has earned my trust to a sufficient degree with how they generally have been acting over the past decade regarding user privacy questions, which is why you will find their products in my home. Alphabet has proven to be a shady actor in this field at best, and Meta and Amazon have made abundantly clear that you can't trust them at all. So you won't find any hardware containing a microphone or camera from them in my home, period.

WiiM/Linkplay is an unknown actor to me. They might have the best intentions, but they haven't proven that they can be trusted, either. And until that changes, none of their products will remain switched on unattended for any length of time.


I'm not a tin foil hat kind of guy. To the contrary, actually; most people will probably describe me as rather naive and maybe a bit too trusting. But when it comes to this kind of stuff, I might have spent a little too much time in this industry to blindly trust some random manufacturer with their declared intentions by installing hardware in my home and place of work (where I regularly discuss trade secrets that are in part covered by NDAs) that can easily be converted into a sophisticated surveillance device with just a small, automated over-the-air firmware update behind my back.


Edit:
I will remove myself from this discussion now, if that's ok. It wasn't my intention to have this turn into a WiiM dissing session. Sorry about that.

 

[eliottj]

We have to understand the risks but we should not live in a self made prison either.

Yeah, while I resent an intrusion on my privacy, it's not like I'm a secret agent. Now, stay out of my bank account!

 

[donos]

Welcome to the thread!

The microphone is soldered directly to the board with the digital circuitry. It's the small black square thing with the golden ring and corner marking on top shown below next to the U2 silkscreen.

If and when you open your WiiM, it'll be covered by a piece of plastic containing another piece of rubber. Those two pieces are there to redirect the sound coming in through the microphone hole in the rear of the case down towards that SMD microphone. Remove the screw that holds the plastic piece in place and it will come right off.



You can theoretically desolder that microphone, but there are two caveats that I'd like you to consider before you try:

1) It's a relatively small part and the solder pads are under it, meaning you won't be able to reach them directly with the tip of a soldering iron. You will need a hot air rework station to get that SMD mic cleanly off the board. You can try to desolder it with a normal soldering iron, but be aware that the area is surrounded by a large filled-in ground plane that will act like a big heat sink. I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up delaminating that ground plane and the mic's traces from the board substrate before the SMD mic so much as budges.
There isn't anything else in the immediate vicinity of that mic on this side of the board, so maybe you feel like risking it. Just make sure that you don't leave any shorts behind between that ground plane and the traces that go to that microphone.

2) Removing the microphone may or may not irreparably brick your unit, even if you managed to remove it cleanly. I haven't looked up the exact part, but the fact that more than just two traces go to it tells me that it's probably got its own AD converter in it and that it outputs a digital signal, either PWM or something like I2S. Which means that the brainbox on that thing might have a way to do some sort of health check on the microphone — whether it's there, whether it responds, stuff like that. So without having tried it myself, I can't tell you for sure whether they have implemented some sort of check either during startup of the device or right before the microphone is to be switched on for whatever reason. And if they have, the device could either just throw an internal error and move on if you are lucky, it could refuse to perform some functions but work just fine otherwise, or it could throw its hands up and refuse to work altogether. Your guess is as good as mine.

Edit:
You could also take a dremel tool with a cutting disc to it (or even just a box cutter, if you feel especially redneck today) and sever all traces that go to that SMD microphone. But again: Make sure not to leave any shorts behind.

Thanks again - really appreciate the detailed answer, with illustrative photo. Your point about WiiM possibly scanning for healthy microphone makes sense ... even if I managed not butcher it or brick it.

Or put a blob of putty or something over it.

More to my level of skill !

would cover it in hot glue solve the mic issue? wiim could still identify the 'user' then?

Again, not beyond my abilities

using a dremel on a multiplayer pcb? please no one do this, do the putty thing, or just block it in a firewall on your router or something

Not sure if I could selectively block on firewall without impacting online firmware downloads.
Starting to like the sound attenuation options (putty, or similar) are best approach ... or going leftfield with placement near a little white noise generator / fan ... or going the whole hog and building a desktop mini-SCIF for my WiiM