[adias]

The only way to do a streamer well is to do it fully in-house, without any dependence on a third party to provide custom hardware modules or software. A streamer ain't a CD transport, you can't just slap a few buttons and a monochrome OLED matrix display on it and be done. If you did, you would end up with useless junk similar to those Android-based mobile audio players and all those other boxes that have come and gone in recent years because they had the "right" spec sheet but ultimately never lived up to expectation during daily use.

Getting this right is hard. So hard, in fact, that no one has been able to actually pull it off yet. Some attempts got the hardware right, but utterly failed with the software. Some got parts of the software right, but little else. But there has yet to be a streamer that's actually done well in every aspect.

Why is especially the software part so hard? Because you can't make a streamer worth the price you'd have to ask for without relying on third parties to make it even nearly as feature-complete as the market would expect.
Every single streaming service you want to support will force you to use their own APIs, and you will have little to no control over that API's stability, performance, or quality.
Whenever they change something you will have to have the ability to a) produce updates within a reasonable time frame and b) have a way to reliably push them out to all boxes.
You have to be able to deal with DRM, legally as well as technically.
A streamer is connected to the internet, so it has to be bulletproof against any form of attack; not just known ones, but you have to be able to quickly react to future ones as well.
You need some form of UI, be it a screen on the box itself, or some form of remote. UIs age faster than milk, so you'll spend a good chunk of the future redesigning and rewriting your UI again and again and again.

And without taking some sort of subscription fee, you'll do that work essentially for free for every box you've already sold, either in perpetuity or until you pull the cord and end support. Which is precisely why most streamers get end-of-lived by their manufacturers a mere few years after they came out and you'll have to buy a new model if you want to be able to keep using the newest streaming services or wireless protocols like the next iteration of AirPlay.

Want a proper streamer? One that's quiet, flexible, and won't get ignored out of existence by its manufacturer a mere two years after release? Just buy the cheapest Mac mini, slap whatever streaming client you like on it, and be done for at least a decade. That also comes with the benefit of being considerably cheaper than every properly done dedicated streamer box could ever be, by at least a factor of 10.

For someone who wants to cast Amazon/Apple/Quobuz and via DLNA some local stuff, e.g., Audirvana and a few radio stations… what’s wrong with WiiM Pro and its App? It works just fine for me up to 192kHz 24bit.

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

Really, what kind of spiff are you getting from Schiit here, @ArmchairPhilosopher ?! (j/k)

I can't answer that question without my lawyer present…

No need to upgrade my AS3 but this kind of talk....

I'm sure there will eventually be used ones out there.

And just to clarify: That not even the same sport comment wasn't supposed to mean that the Mjolnir 3 would sound worlds apart better than a Jotunheim 2. Just worlds apart different.

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

For someone who wants to cast Amazon/Apple/Quobuz and via DLNA some local stuff, e.g., Audirvana and a few radio stations… what’s wrong with WiiM Pro and its App? It works just fine for me up to 192kHz 24bit.

Not much.
It's still a relatively new product, though. Past experience tells me that you'll probably have to replace it with a new box in two or three years, or start paying some sort of subscription if you want it stay up to date.

Not saying that this is what will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it did. That's simply the only way you can make that business model work.

All you need to do is to look at the probably most successful and now defunct [edited for clarity] streamer yet: Squeezebox. That ecosystem managed to survive quite a few years until it got discontinued, and then buyers lucked out when Logitech eventually open-sourced the entire thing. But even the most dedicated open source community can't keep the thing alive.

All that might be acceptable for a $150 box, but not for something like the 1.5K or more that Schiit would probably have to ask for.

 

[JamminVMI]

Excellent, thank you for the comment! Camus, I did not even realize, I just liked the tasting notes placard they had out. These are 2017. Does it need to decant or just a little air?

I am also mostly a Zin fan, which seems to be routinely pretty excellent all up and down California. My favorites are from Sobon Estates in Amador County and (of course) Dry Creek in Sonoma.

Peachy Canyon in Paso does great zin as well. There are a lot of zins running around CA, I agree. lodi does some great ones with lots of flavour and backbone. Tey Justin from Paso, too. Th 17 shouln’t need decanting, but I’d pour and if patience allows, have a sip every 5 minutes if u can…

And if you ever find some Zin from Joseph Swan (russian river), Grab…

 

[styler]

using squeezebox as an example seems dated. i think the BlueSound ecosystem and Roon both have greater penetration. eversolo and hifi rose are selling out quickly. i get why Schiit doesnt want the headache tho. and i wouldn't want something that had an M-connect module either. but building an audiophile computer and running Roon doesnt seem that difficult.

 

[adias]

Not much.
It's still a relatively new product, though. Past experience tells me that you'll probably have to replace it with a new box in two or three years, or start paying some sort of subscription if you want it stay up to date.

Not saying that this is what will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it did. That's simply the only way you can make that business model work.

All you need to do is to look at the probably most successful streamer yet: Squeezebox. That ecosystem managed to survive quite a few years until it got discontinued, and then buyers lucked out when Logitech eventually open-sourced the entire thing. But even the most dedicated open source community can't keep the thing alive.

All that might be acceptable for a $150 box, but not for something like the 1.5K or more that Schiit would probably have to ask for.

True. I have a WiiM Pro and a Mini and soon a Pro+ for the USB out.

A dedicated computer needs upgrading too. Software costs money too and needs to have a remote.

Pick your poison I guess…

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

using squeezebox as an example seems dated. i think the BlueSound ecosystem and Roon both have greater penetration. eversolo and hifi rose are selling out quickly. i get why Schiit doesnt want the headache tho. and i wouldn't want something that had an M-connect module either. but building an audiophile computer and running Roon doesnt seem that difficult.

I used Squeezebox as an example because it exemplifies the entire lifecycle that you can expect out of this product category and their manufacturers, from launch to discontinuation and even past that. That this example seems dated was by design.

 

[styler]

the other current strategy seems to be making a giant cell phone and run android as the software, the new Fiio box, the eversolo and the Hifi Rose all do this.

 

[styler]

I used Squeezebox as an example because it exemplifies the entire lifecycle that you can expect out of this product category and their manufacturers, from launch to discontinuation and even past that. That this example seems dated was by design.

I think Squeezebox left the party before it even got started courtesy of being bought out.

 

[artur9]

If I could get something that fit on an optional card--such as the card in Ragnarok and Jotunheim, or the input cards in Yggy or Bifrost--you might get my attention. ...

..., we still need to manage at least 2 apps, one with very poorly defined hardware/display specs. ...

... Every single streaming service you want to support will force you to use their own APIs, and you will have little to no control over that API's stability, performance, or quality.
...

I was hoping that something like NAA or RAAT could be put on a card so that a Schiit device could just be an audio stream receiver, maybe how like one can (in theory) "play to" a DLNA device. My brief "discovery process" suggests that such a hope is beyond forlorn.

I mean, I read something like

The NAA protocol has been design by Jussi Laako of Signalyst and this use normal full TCP/IP stack plus XML with some crypto algorithms for authentication so it is very simple if compared to professional standards which have as main objective the synchronism of the clock of various slave devices.

but then the first instruction is "install Linux on your card." What, ppl?!

UDP announcement (think Bonjour), TCP protocol stack, and packet -> (card I/O) -> coax . Why all the other crap?!

 

[Ripper2860]

I'll just stick with my Raspberry Pi / RoPieee XL-based system and move to different streaming systems as needed when they come and go. For now, it's Roon, but who knows what the future may hold.

 

[styler]

any initial Urd impressions?

 

[Ableza]

After years of futzing about with Squeeze servers and various Linux DIY solutions, I finally decided to let someone else do the hard work and bought a SonicOrbiter server from SONORE. It's been bulletproof. There are other off-the-shelf solutions including Roon Nucleus, Auralic, Elac, etc. ( none of them exactly "cheap") but if it's rock-solid performance you want then paying for it is an easy way to go.

 

[earnmyturns]

the other current strategy seems to be making a giant cell phone and run android as the software, the new Fiio box, the eversolo and the Hifi Rose all do this.

That's such a bad idea. Android is not built for high-res audio. It is also not designed for steady processor-intensive tasks (such as upsampling), but for bursty use. So right away, the hardware maker has to create a variant with a different digital audio stack, which will be hard to maintain. From experience with Android-based DAPs, updates are rare and bugs galore.

 

[barondla]

A schiit (shart?) speakers sounds interesting. If offering "something different" is the criteria for getting in a new audio arena I wonder what it'd be. Custom US drivers in some sort of a panel/open baffle would be cool.

Affordable field coil home speakers!
Thanks,
barondla