[oneguy]

If you have the opportunity to compare a pair of Tyrs to a Yamaha B2 connected to those NS-1000M speakers, I'd love to hear your impression!

I currently use B2s in my house. I would try a different amp if I thought I could find something I could actually afford that could beat them. Maybe a pair of Tyrs....I've not heard choke power amps before.

I’ll let you know if I have the opportunity

 

[Paladin79]

No. Different pinout.

Jason, you can save me some reading. Folkvangr is a ten tube design using 6n1p and equivalent?

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Jason, you can save me some reading. Folkvangr is a ten tube design using 6n1p and equivalent?

2 6N1P for voltage gain, 8 6N6P for current gain, OTL, DC-coupled (yes, not kidding, OCL as well).

To all: If tube availability makes you nervous, don't buy it. We'll only be making 250 of them anyway, to preserve tubes for Valhalla 2.

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

Why not invest in them while they are out there in abundance? Here is a small example.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313745116385?hash=item490caa8ce1:g:W7MAAOSwXbJhiaIj

I owned an Valhalla for a while and I would have to go back and check my preferences but as with any amp I tend to stock up on future needs. With tubes it is not a bad idea to go after them when they are available, if you are considering a Folkvangr, plan accordingly. Tubes involve work and research, they may not be right for everyone but I would certainly like to compare a Folkvangr to other tube amps in my possession and then it gets into tube rolling, finding the brand you like and buying at least 36 of them. There will be less tubes to roll with the FVR so that should simplify things.

I was thinking Paul McGowen was talking more like a year but it depends on the amount of play a tube get and the amp holding said tube or tubes. I have so many 6sn7's I tend to rotate them and none have six months play on them, or even three months.

Honestly I am having a hard time remembering if Jason said which tube would be in the Folkvangr, I believe he had an abundance of 6n1p and 6n6p tubes. I am hoping it is the 6n1p of course.

I think I may have mixed something up. After reading your post, I re-checked Paul's videos. And yes, you are of course correct. He says on at least two occasions that he tends to replace his tubes about once a year.
He also states that power tubes don't last as long as signal tubes. Power tubes would degrade faster with the amount of power they have to carry, while some signal tubes can last multiple years.

Mea culpa, and thanks for the hint that I may have been incorrect. That's always welcome and highly appreciated.

Your point about stocking up is well taken, but I'd like to add the following thought to that:
All 6N6P I've ever seen are NOS, and to my knowledge, there doesn't seem to be an effort going on to produce new ones. (Which might obviously change once current stock drops below a certain level.) That means, at least for the foreseeable future, that regardless of whether one stocks up on them or not, the available number, how small or large that number may be, is, by definition, limited.
[Edit: I stand corrected; see Jason's post below this one. Albeit with the caveat that a cursory search only came up with Russian-made new-production 6H30P, which means that they'll be near impossible to get for the foreseeable future.]
So, while stocking up on the tubes one likes and/or needs is a valid solution from one person's point of view, it only solves that one person's problem, and also only for a limited amount of time. Doing so actually somewhat exacerbates the mid and long term supply restraints for the rest of our Folkvangr and Valhalla brethren.
(Just to avoid any misunderstandings: This isn't meant to criticize anyone who keeps a stock of tubes they like. I already do the same with 6SN7 and certain ECC88 equivalents.)

You're also completely right in saying that tubes require effort. Apart from the sound they offer, that's actually part of the appeal that tubes have for me. It helps keep this hobby exciting.

I actually don't remember if Jason ever mentioned explicitly what tubes he is designing Folkvangr for, but he did say on at least one occasion that the amp exists in part so that they can use some of the stock they have, and he also mentioned on at least one other occasion that he prefers to design tube amps for the tube types they already have, and not new types. That means that Folkvangr will likely require 6N6P and 6N1P tubes. From the look of the prototype he showed us during the Valencia shop tour live stream, there seem to be eight longer tubes in the back and two shorter ones in the front, which would mean that Folkvangr would need 8x 6N6P and 2x 6N1P tubes.
[Edit: Well, this paragraph didn't age well, did it. ;p See Jason's post just above this one for an official statement. ]

Tubes are (somewhat cost-intensive) consumables, and anyone who even considers buying something rather ridiculous (in all the best ways) as Folkvangr should be aware of that. And most people probably are.

I guess this is meant to be more of a theoretical/philosophical/ethical train of thought than a practical one. I am an armchair philosopher, after all. ;p

 

[Paladin79]

2 6N1P for voltage gain, 8 6N6P for current gain, OTL, DC-coupled (yes, not kidding, OCL as well).

To all: If tube availability makes you nervous, don't buy it. We'll only be making 250 of them anyway, to preserve tubes for Valhalla 2.

Thanks for taking the time to answer, tube availability should not be an issue for me.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Re 6N6P alts: 6H30P is a currently manufactured drop-in for the 6N6P. If we're lucky, Western Electric will do one of these as well. Then you can spend more for tubes than for the amp.

 

[barondla]

Were you operating a PA system lol? Even two of the Dynaco 416's into 8 ohms would have been 400 watts per side. Anymore I go the opposite direction, highly efficient speakers and low wattage class A tube amps 15 to 100 watts per channel.

According to JGH of Stereophile "one of the least sensitive speaker systems we've ever encountered.
It does, however, seem capable of taking astonishing amounts of input power without audible stress, so if the power amplifier can deliver enough low-end belt, the speaker can be equalized to provide subjectively flat response down to a bit below 40Hz." The review also mentioned they sounded the best biamplified. In kit form, there wasn't a huge difference in price between the 416 and the next smaller Dynaco amp. I thought the speaker might gel better with two matching amps. My, little amps can sound better, realization happened later with an Advent receiver and other speakers.

Thanks,
barondla

 

[OldRoadToad]

A simple and simply dumb, question if I may?

If I get a Magnius and use the SE inputs does this negate the 4 pin XLR output as far as being genuinely balanced? If so, then I have no need of the Modius if I can NOT tell any difference when my son brings the M-Twiins over for me to test out all XLR nut-to-butt hooked up and as such just be happy as a toad can be with the looks alone and buy only the Magnius if I can not hear a true difference on that rig.

Or is SE in to 4 pin XLR out on the Magnius going to be balanced too? Call if fate... Call it luck...Call it karma...Call it shallow...

...Yup. Shallow Toad needs to know. 'n' schiit.

ORT

 

[Paladin79]

I think I may have mixed something up. After reading your post, I re-checked Paul's videos. And yes, you are of course correct. He says on at least two occasions that he tends to replace his tubes about once a year.
He also states that power tubes don't last as long as signal tubes. Power tubes would degrade faster with the amount of power they have to carry, while some signal tubes can last multiple years.

Mea culpa, and thanks for the hint that I may have been incorrect. That's always welcome and highly appreciated.

Your point about stocking up is well taken, but I'd like to add the following thought to that:
All 6N6P I've ever seen are NOS, and to my knowledge, there doesn't seem to be an effort going on to produce new ones. (Which might obviously change once current stock drops below a certain level.) That means, at least for the foreseeable future, that regardless of whether one stocks up on them or not, the available number, how small or large that number may be, is, by definition, limited.
[Edit: I stand corrected; see Jason's post below this one. Albeit with the caveat that a cursory search only came up with Russian-made new-production 6H30P, which means that they'll be near impossible to get for the foreseeable future.]
So, while stocking up on the tubes one likes and/or needs is a valid solution from one person's point of view, it only solves that one person's problem, and also only for a limited amount of time. Doing so actually somewhat exacerbates the mid and long term supply restraints for the rest of our Folkvangr and Valhalla brethren.
(Just to avoid any misunderstandings: This isn't meant to criticize anyone who keeps a stock of tubes they like. I already do the same with 6SN7 and certain ECC88 equivalents.)

You're also completely right in saying that tubes require effort. Apart from the sound they offer, that's actually part of the appeal that tubes have for me. It helps keep this hobby exciting.

I actually don't remember if Jason ever mentioned explicitly what tubes he is designing Folkvangr for, but he did say on at least one occasion that the amp exists in part so that they can use some of the stock they have, and he also mentioned on at least one other occasion that he prefers to design tube amps for the tube types they already have, and not new types. That means that Folkvangr will likely require 6N6P and 6N1P tubes. From the look of the prototype he showed us during the Valencia shop tour live stream, there seem to be eight longer tubes in the back and two shorter ones in the front, which would mean that Folkvangr would need 8x 6N6P and 2x 6N1P tubes.
[Edit: Well, this paragraph didn't age well, did it. ;p See Jason's post just above this one for an official statement. ]

Tubes are (somewhat cost-intensive) consumables, and anyone who even considers buying something rather ridiculous (in all the best ways) as Folkvangr should be aware of that. And most people probably are.

I guess this is meant to be more of a theoretical/philosophical/ethical train of thought than a practical one. I am an armchair philosopher, after all. ;p

As I said earlier, tube life can vary between devices, Freya + is a great example. I know of amps that tend to protect the power tubes as well.

Whisper-Silent Tube Stage—With Tube Shutdown
Now, you can enjoy a tube preamp without the hiss and hum of classic designs. Freya+’s all-new tube stage with new-production 6SN7 tubes, DC heaters and semi-circlotron, noise-cancelling output stage is whisper-silent. Better yet, it turns off when you’re not using it! That’s right, both the tube heater and high voltage rails go away when not in use, so you can preserve lifetime of costly tubes.

Thanks for your input on the Folkvangr as well as Jason's, I get busy with other things and fail to read all the posts and this thread tends to change quickly.

When I first started looking into some Russian tubes I called on a few friends who emigrated to the US so I received quite a few tubes for a Valhalla 2 and still have many of those. What the future holds is hard to say but with only 250 of the Folkvangrs being made, I cannot imagine 6N6P's taking too much of a hit.

 

[Paladin79]

According to JGH of Stereophile "one of the least sensitive speaker systems we've ever encountered.
It does, however, seem capable of taking astonishing amounts of input power without audible stress, so if the power amplifier can deliver enough low-end belt, the speaker can be equalized to provide subjectively flat response down to a bit below 40Hz." The review also mentioned they sounded the best biamplified. In kit form, there wasn't a huge difference in price between the 416 and the next smaller Dynaco amp. I thought the speaker might gel better with two matching amps. My, little amps can sound better, realization happened later with an Advent receiver and other speakers.

Thanks,
barondla

You obviously know what you are doing, I try to help when I can but the thought of my lifting those older amps makes my Physical Therapist cringe.

 

[RickB]

I am reasonably confident that Folkvangr will see its release within this decade.

It may very well be a limited edition collector's item.

Edit: this comment was ninja'd at least twice.

 

[OldRoadToad]

As I said earlier, tube life can vary between devices, Freya + is a great example. I know of amps that tend to protect the power tubes as well.

Whisper-Silent Tube Stage—With Tube Shutdown
Now, you can enjoy a tube preamp without the hiss and hum of classic designs. Freya+’s all-new tube stage with new-production 6SN7 tubes, DC heaters and semi-circlotron, noise-cancelling output stage is whisper-silent. Better yet, it turns off when you’re not using it! That’s right, both the tube heater and high voltage rails go away when not in use, so you can preserve lifetime of costly tubes.

Thanks for your input on the Folkvangr as well as Jason's, I get busy with other things and fail to read all the posts and this thread tends to change quickly.

When I first started looking into some Russian tubes I called on a few friends who emigrated to the US so I received quite a few tubes for a Valhalla 2 and still have many of those. What the future holds is hard to say but with only 250 of the Folkvangrs being made, I cannot imagine 6N6P's taking too much of a hit.

Hmmm...I am beginning to think I can not really afford a tubed integrated amplifier due to a very brief life span for tubes in general? I tend to shut off all my equipment. Always have and always will so perhaps that would help. Maybe? Do you think I should avoid tubes because of their gnat like life span? I could save my money for other things like speakers, which in my humble opinion are the most important item in the reproduction of sound. But tubes do look a whole lot more neato but that's because I can not afford neato looking certain B&W, Legacy or similar (to my eyes) speakers. I am certain there are more cool looking speakers out there that I failed to mention, those two brands just popped out of my mind.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

ORT

 

[Ableza]

Then you can spend more for tubes than for the amp.

NOW you're talking like a true audiophile!

 

[barondla]

Hmmm...I am beginning to think I can not really afford a tubed integrated amplifier due to a very brief life span for tubes in general? I tend to shut off all my equipment. Always have and always will so perhaps that would help. Maybe? Do you think I should avoid tubes because of their gnat like life span? I could save my money for other things like speakers, which in my humble opinion are the most important item in the reproduction of sound. But tubes do look a whole lot more neato but that's because I can not afford neato looking certain B&W, Legacy or similar (to my eyes) speakers. I am certain there are more cool looking speakers out there that I failed to mention, those two brands just popped out of my mind.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

ORT

In a design that doesn't push tubes to the max, life can last many years. I used to think tubes were horrible because of a preamp that used 6DJ8 and the spectacularly explosive Dynaco mk 6 monoblocks. The preamp burned through tubes in a year. The amps were probably the worse design Dyna ever put out. There are many threads about fixing the design. Monthly they would blow a tube or the resistor. These two products converted me to solid state for years.

I kept reading about a tube amp that was easy on tubes. Bought one used and called Kevin Deal to buy a tube set. He quickly told me there was no warranty if I had a certain brand amp, because they ran the tubes to the max. My brand was easy on tubes. Those tubes still sound great 5 years later. Depends on how hard the designer pushes the tubes. Tubes can be quite reliable and are user replaceable, transistors are not.
Don't give up on tubes.
Thanks,
barondla

 

[433521]

Tubes are (somewhat cost-intensive) consumables, and anyone who even considers buying something rather ridiculous (in all the best ways) as Folkvangr should be aware of that. And most people probably are.

I am an armchair philosopher, after all. ;p

I was thinking about this too especially with regards to FV, should I decide OTL is attractive to this OTC type of a guy.

I try to supply extra tubes when I buy a tube amplifier to have spares for the next owner.

Is there a way to reserve tubes as a club, or through Schiit, so everyone who buys a FV isn't storing a half case of tubes? It seems like there'd be less waste working as a team.

theoretical upside: The supply depot maintains enough tubes for 1.5x the expected consumption, which is probably 1/10th what we'd buy left to our own devices? SAVINGS and lots of tubes for everyone.