[UmustBKidn]

  Chapter 22:
Introducing the Schiithole
 

 
I keep wanting to drive over one day and stop by to see what this place looks like.
Really, I want to walk in and listen to something.
 
This chapter kind of shattered that fantasy...

 

[UmustBKidn]

Just an observation, but I imagine that most of us are sitting in chairs at computers while we're writing responses...take that for perspective

And it does go beyond chairs. If your job is to man phones all day, I imagine that you would want a decent headset. If you spend most of your job time outside walking off roads, you probably have feelings about quality boots and outwear. If you're a driver of heavy trucks, I can guarantee that you have feelings on engine power and control locations.
 

 
I read Head-Fi at home in bed. I have to sit all day at work, and quite frankly when I'm done, I can't handle any more sitting. I lie down or stand up.
 
Death by sitting is the unintended side effect of the technological revolution.

 

[acidtripwow]

It's funny that you mention chairs. I work for a manufacturer of bus seats and instead of buying office chairs for employees they take a bus seat and attach a stand. It's very uncomfortable that's why I ordered my own office chair with my own money. It's a lot more comfortable than a bus seat.

The manufacturing plant is also located in one of the worst sections of town. I guess it was cheap! I've seen a couple of high speed police chases right in front of the building. Employees have had their cars stolen and broken into, also. And that was in the middle of the day. We also have had things stolen inside the building like iPods, computers, monitors, etc... It's a manufacturing plant so we don't hire the best of people. I'm lucky to work in an office where I can lock the door every time I step away. When I started we had no security officers and no video cameras. Now we have 24/7 security and about 50 cameras throughout the building. It's a lot better but I wouldn't call it safe and secure. There was another robbery about a week ago a block away. The guy who drives the food truck that stops by every day got held up at gun point.

 

[davidsh]

^Seems one can cheap out too much, and in the case of your work it seems it backfired quite a lot.

 

[Silent One]

Originally Posted by UmustBKidn /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
I keep wanting to drive over one day and stop by to see what this place looks like.
Really, I want to walk in and listen to something.
 
This chapter kind of shattered that fantasy...

Surely, there's a micro-brewery nearby...suddenly that visit is ok. 

 I don't do brew but wouldn't mind runnin' up there as well and perhaps, get some grub and convo with Jason & Co.

 

[Baldr]

A few musings on building products, Yggdrasil, I2S (in no particular order):
 
Let me begin by opining that in my last 40 years or so of being involved in audio, that audiophiles are an odd subset of the human race. Well above average intelligence, yup. Sane, well............... So that speaks volumes about me, and manufacturers in particular. This one of those audio facts that everyone seems to know, except audiophiles. Don't believe me?? Take a good look around you the next time you go to an audio meet or show.
 
At Schiit, poor Jason has the responsibility to publicly articulate our policy and position on audio issues. That makes him our marketeer, press secretary, public relations spokesperson, etc. etc all rolled up into one. That would be no fun for me, and totally at odds with my audio disease. See the paragraph above.
 
At Schiit, we actually (for the most part) enjoy what we do. We also work pretty hard on our products. When we build something we really like or have worked extra hard on, we really want to tug on someone's coat or apron and show them what we did. For me that is a whole lot easier than for Jason, who is the visible to the world Schiit figure. What you need to understand is that it is very difficult for myself, and Jason in particular, to remain muzzled about something we have really busted our butts on and we are really proud to show off. Temper that with the fact that for someone who is a spokesman is really better off saying less than more. That's why we have a fifth amendment in the US. I have probably been shot at dawn in previous lives for talking too much. Too much communication is a dangerous thing. Too little pisses people off. It is a tough tightrope for Jason, so cut him some slack.
Won't do any good anyway. You can always tell marketeers, you just can't tell them much. It really is a burden for them. Jason also is plagued by the disease, or he would be doing other things. See paragraph number one.
 
So I love building this stuff. I have been doing this a long time, which gives me some basis to properly decide how to go about just that. It gets more difficult the higher end it gets. More options, choices. I was raised to believe that if I out-performed, out-maneuvered, and out-hustled everyone in my game, I could have the house on the top of the hill and everyone would admire me. Now, I am happy with my current house. It is also of vanishing low importance to me how many people look up to me. I need fun much more than admiration at my age. Admiration is always fleeting anyway.
 
There was a time in my life when I tried to build the very best preamp, amp DAC, whatever. Now I realize there is no such thing. There is only a temporary very best product for some people, which leads to the new very best product for the same or different people when the first one is revealed to be not the very best anymore, etc, etc. As I have said previously, God could appear to me tomorrow and tell me exactly how to build the best audio device ever, and there are those of you out there who will disagree. I used to know a guy named Andy who would put a little scratch on his newly bought cars so he would not agonize over keeping his new car perfect. I now get that. Meanwhile, I will build you the very best product I can and let you put your own scratches on them.
 
I like everyone (almost – one or two exceptions – they really earned it) in this business. This means customers who will never buy stuff from me, customers who will, competitors who make stuff I like, competitors who don't, industry scribes, hangers on, etc. Why? Because they share my audio malady and all show up and are a part of this audio industry which provides me my biggest arena to play in. I didn't create the arena – all of you did – just by being here. It has been my home since 1976. It was here before me, and will be here after me as well.
 
I build products and bring them to this arena. If you don't like them, that's the way it goes. The very fact that you are in this audio arena makes it more interesting for me. Now if you do like them, then that is indeed a hell of a bonus! This may sound arrogant, but I could care less what any of you think of me. That is none of my business. I did not show up here to be a personality – I am here to bring the very best products I know how to build. I also only care about what you think of my products to the extent that it helps me build better ones next time. This is how I have fun – it explains why I do this – and if you have fun as well then it is another bonus as well.
 
So these products never show up on time. Why? Some may think that Jason and myself stay up late at night to figure out how to delay products. Consider this: an Yggdrasil has several hundred different part numbers, with multiple quantities of parts bringing the total number of parts to well over one thousand. If only one of the parts is missing, then how are we supposed to ship them? What do we do when parts show up late from suppliers? How do we build protos and try new stuff out with late or defective parts? When we are a company with growing pains, how do we balance building of Asgard2, Valhalla2, Lyr2, Wyrd, Modi, Valli, Magni, Loki, etc. to fit in Raggy and Yggy?? These are just two areas where unintended consequences and just in general things going really wrong delay products. There are many, many more. Cut us some slack! We are doing the best we can and learning in the process.
 
What about I2S, 2x and 4x DSD, new as yet unimagined connectivity schemes and software formats? Well first I2S. What I2S components do we hook it up to, and what do those components cost? If someone is buying a Schiit or other I2S equipped component because they think it is the best in the world, and they have to hook it up to the best I2S equipped source in the world, then 14 out of 10 of them will soon sell both anyway, as they haven't yet realized that the best possible components forever are impossible. See paragraph number five. I would much rather devote the time and energy to other products that are usable in the real world.
 
Some people are excited about DSD. A year ago, it was even more of interest. Users were demanding it at shows, the press was wetting its pants, on and on. A year ago, I went against my better judgment and produced the Loki DSD decoder. For a new audio format to succeed, it must have a variety of competing decoding hardware, and a wide variety of software (music) available from a wide variety of vendors. We are not talking releases like The Orkney Island Shepherds chant traditional “Poems of Rapturous Ecstasy” complete with happy bleats in the background. I need Miles Davis, Thelonius Monk, The Stones, Vienna State Opera, and so on to take me home. Now the problem with DSD is that there is a paucity of native DSD recordings that are not of limited interest. The music that many more of us will like that has been released are generally PCM brick-walled remasters. May as well just use a regular DAC on the far cheaper original release. Now the native DSD recordings which are available, do indeed sound good. The problem is that there are not a lot of them, and even fewer at 2x and 4x. So please do not hold your breath awaiting a 2x or 4x Schiit DSD device. Just like our industry did with HDCD, DAT, Quadraphonic records, and several more, we are doing the same thing, i.e. creating a new format with little music available, and expecting a different result (success!). Now don't get me wrong – I have a few native DSD recordings that I like and listen to. That's why I did the Loki – cheap, sounds incredible for the price, but a little hard to use. If you do not like hard to use, then why are you using DSD anyway? I think you can actually fit 20 minutes or so of 4X DSD music on a 4TB drive. I can't believe people believe they will be able to download a wide variety of files this bloated from Amazon or iTunes, but I am from a small town.
 
In conclusion – This is a hobby, so I am in it for the fun. I could be doing a lot of other things or not, but this is what I love. This is exactly why, although I could, I am not retiring – I love this too much. Stop taking this hobby so seriously. Have fun. That's the purpose of this whole deal. Don't assume what you like others will have to. Do your best to please yourself. No one else cares what you like. Don't be like the guys in the higher floors of many of the shows spending money you may not have on equipment you won't like in some vain quest of perfection. Don't get pissed off at us for saying too much, saying too little, late product, early product, surprise product. If you like our products, tell others. If you hate our products, tell us. Finally, remember you are listening to music – NOT to audio gear. All we do is help you do just that.

 

[7ryder]

Bravo, Mike, bravo!

 

[johnjen]

"It is also of vanishing low importance to me how many people look up to me. 
I need fun much more than admiration at my age. 
Admiration is always fleeting anyway."
 
Too late… :thumb  :thumb
 
JJ

 

[philo50]

  Bravo, Mike, bravo!

+1

 

[jeremy205100]

  A few musings on building products, Yggdrasil, I2S (in no particular order):
 
Let me begin by opining that in my last 40 years or so of being involved in audio, that audiophiles are an odd subset of the human race. Well above average intelligence, yup. Sane, well............... So that speaks volumes about me, and manufacturers in particular. This one of those audio facts that everyone seems to know, except audiophiles. Don't believe me?? Take a good look around you the next time you go to an audio meet or show.
 
At Schiit, poor Jason has the responsibility to publicly articulate our policy and position on audio issues. That makes him our marketeer, press secretary, public relations spokesperson, etc. etc all rolled up into one. That would be no fun for me, and totally at odds with my audio disease. See the paragraph above.
 
At Schiit, we actually (for the most part) enjoy what we do. We also work pretty hard on our products. When we build something we really like or have worked extra hard on, we really want to tug on someone's coat or apron and show them what we did. For me that is a whole lot easier than for Jason, who is the visible to the world Schiit figure. What you need to understand is that it is very difficult for myself, and Jason in particular, to remain muzzled about something we have really busted our butts on and we are really proud to show off. Temper that with the fact that for someone who is a spokesman is really better off saying less than more. That's why we have a fifth amendment in the US. I have probably been shot at dawn in previous lives for talking too much. Too much communication is a dangerous thing. Too little pisses people off. It is a tough tightrope for Jason, so cut him some slack.
Won't do any good anyway. You can always tell marketeers, you just can't tell them much. It really is a burden for them. Jason also is plagued by the disease, or he would be doing other things. See paragraph number one.
 
So I love building this stuff. I have been doing this a long time, which gives me some basis to properly decide how to go about just that. It gets more difficult the higher end it gets. More options, choices. I was raised to believe that if I out-performed, out-maneuvered, and out-hustled everyone in my game, I could have the house on the top of the hill and everyone would admire me. Now, I am happy with my current house. It is also of vanishing low importance to me how many people look up to me. I need fun much more than admiration at my age. Admiration is always fleeting anyway.
 
There was a time in my life when I tried to build the very best preamp, amp DAC, whatever. Now I realize there is no such thing. There is only a temporary very best product for some people, which leads to the new very best product for the same or different people when the first one is revealed to be not the very best anymore, etc, etc. As I have said previously, God could appear to me tomorrow and tell me exactly how to build the best audio device ever, and there are those of you out there who will disagree. I used to know a guy named Andy who would put a little scratch on his newly bought cars so he would not agonize over keeping his new car perfect. I now get that. Meanwhile, I will build you the very best product I can and let you put your own scratches on them.
 
I like everyone (almost – one or two exceptions – they really earned it) in this business. This means customers who will never buy stuff from me, customers who will, competitors who make stuff I like, competitors who don't, industry scribes, hangers on, etc. Why? Because they share my audio malady and all show up and are a part of this audio industry which provides me my biggest arena to play in. I didn't create the arena – all of you did – just by being here. It has been my home since 1976. It was here before me, and will be here after me as well.
 
I build products and bring them to this arena. If you don't like them, that's the way it goes. The very fact that you are in this audio arena makes it more interesting for me. Now if you do like them, then that is indeed a hell of a bonus! This may sound arrogant, but I could care less what any of you think of me. That is none of my business. I did not show up here to be a personality – I am here to bring the very best products I know how to build. I also only care about what you think of my products to the extent that it helps me build better ones next time. This is how I have fun – it explains why I do this – and if you have fun as well then it is another bonus as well.
 
So these products never show up on time. Why? Some may think that Jason and myself stay up late at night to figure out how to delay products. Consider this: an Yggdrasil has several hundred different part numbers, with multiple quantities of parts bringing the total number of parts to well over one thousand. If only one of the parts is missing, then how are we supposed to ship them? What do we do when parts show up late from suppliers? How do we build protos and try new stuff out with late or defective parts? When we are a company with growing pains, how do we balance building of Asgard2, Valhalla2, Lyr2, Wyrd, Modi, Valli, Magni, Loki, etc. to fit in Raggy and Yggy?? These are just two areas where unintended consequences and just in general things going really wrong delay products. There are many, many more. Cut us some slack! We are doing the best we can and learning in the process.
 
What about I2S, 2x and 4x DSD, new as yet unimagined connectivity schemes and software formats? Well first I2S. What I2S components do we hook it up to, and what do those components cost? If someone is buying a Schiit or other I2S equipped component because they think it is the best in the world, and they have to hook it up to the best I2S equipped source in the world, then 14 out of 10 of them will soon sell both anyway, as they haven't yet realized that the best possible components forever are impossible. See paragraph number five. I would much rather devote the time and energy to other products that are usable in the real world.
 
Some people are excited about DSD. A year ago, it was even more of interest. Users were demanding it at shows, the press was wetting its pants, on and on. A year ago, I went against my better judgment and produced the Loki DSD decoder. For a new audio format to succeed, it must have a variety of competing decoding hardware, and a wide variety of software (music) available from a wide variety of vendors. We are not talking releases like The Orkney Island Shepherds chant traditional “Poems of Rapturous Ecstasy” complete with happy bleats in the background. I need Miles Davis, Thelonius Monk, The Stones, Vienna State Opera, and so on to take me home. Now the problem with DSD is that there is a paucity of native DSD recordings that are not of limited interest. The music that many more of us will like that has been released are generally PCM brick-walled remasters. May as well just use a regular DAC on the far cheaper original release. Now the native DSD recordings which are available, do indeed sound good. The problem is that there are not a lot of them, and even fewer at 2x and 4x. So please do not hold your breath awaiting a 2x or 4x Schiit DSD device. Just like our industry did with HDCD, DAT, Quadraphonic records, and several more, we are doing the same thing, i.e. creating a new format with little music available, and expecting a different result (success!). Now don't get me wrong – I have a few native DSD recordings that I like and listen to. That's why I did the Loki – cheap, sounds incredible for the price, but a little hard to use. If you do not like hard to use, then why are you using DSD anyway? I think you can actually fit 20 minutes or so of 4X DSD music on a 4TB drive. I can't believe people believe they will be able to download a wide variety of files this bloated from Amazon or iTunes, but I am from a small town.
 
In conclusion – This is a hobby, so I am in it for the fun. I could be doing a lot of other things or not, but this is what I love. This is exactly why, although I could, I am not retiring – I love this too much. Stop taking this hobby so seriously. Have fun. That's the purpose of this whole deal. Don't assume what you like others will have to. Do your best to please yourself. No one else cares what you like. Don't be like the guys in the higher floors of many of the shows spending money you may not have on equipment you won't like in some vain quest of perfection. Don't get pissed off at us for saying too much, saying too little, late product, early product, surprise product. If you like our products, tell others. If you hate our products, tell us. Finally, remember you are listening to music – NOT to audio gear. All we do is help you do just that.

This... 
 
As someone who has an Asgard 2, I am pleased they didn't stop everything else they were doing just to finish these two high end products. I'm sure someday I'll get high end products but I think Schiit does entry level better than anyone else at the moment and that they should continue doing that. I still am awed whenever I use the Asgard because the build quality is that of an Apple product except the price was much more reasonable. 
 
Everything these people make (I've read reviews for a lot of their other products) seems to hit well above the asking price, which insanely durable construction. I think that it's refreshing and I personally waited a few weeks to get my Asgard 2 because it was backordered at the time. It was well worth the wait. 

 

[walfredo]

 

  wow, that's an incredibly creative rewrite of digital audio history... but not particularly accurate.  Here are some readily verifiable facts:
 
1. 44.1KHz sample rate was chosen well before CDs were invented.  This was during the first era of consumer digital recorders, which recorded on videocasettes.  That rate turns out to allow you to hold 3 stereo samples per video line, and still give you a little more than 2KHz transition band for antialiasing filters.  Redbook adopted 44.1K/16b beca [...] hat because of the heavy duty math involved, isn't exactly intuitive.
 
 
I'm still scratching my head at what bitperfect is supposed to mean in this context.  I can't come up with any logical explanation.  Analog signals do not have any 'real bits' or 'intrinsic bits' hidden inside them...

 
It's arguments like this, that made me glad I picked Software Engineering.

 
+1
 
)))

 

[Maxvla]

What about I2S, 2x and 4x DSD, new as yet unimagined connectivity schemes and software formats? Well first I2S. What I2S components do we hook it up to, and what do those components cost? If someone is buying a Schiit or other I2S equipped component because they think it is the best in the world, and they have to hook it up to the best I2S equipped source in the world, then 14 out of 10 of them will soon sell both anyway, as they haven't yet realized that the best possible components forever are impossible. See paragraph number five. I would much rather devote the time and energy to other products that are usable in the real world.

This is why I suggested in the 'Schiit you want' thread, a Schiit disc transport with I2S among other connections. I own a Rotel RDD980 which is from the mid-90s and it still gets use. A Schiit I2S transport would be a welcome replacement and something I could likely use for another 20 years, seeing as I2S is the native information track, I don't see it being changed any time soon.

Thanks for the long comments. Always great to hear from you directly.

 

[jeremy205100]

I would also love a slot-loading Schiit CD transport in an Asgard 2 sized chassis. All CD players are huge (except for one that TEAC makes, but it's still bigger than an Asgard), have DACs that we don't need because we have better ones, and are ugly. A Schiit CD transport for like $150 (I know, it's an aggressive price, but they wouldn't need a DAC in it) with TOSLINK and coaxial outs would probably sell really well.
 
All CD players have a built in headphone amplifier and a built in DAC that no one on this forum would ever use. Eliminating these would (I'm assuming) drive down costs and reduce size. 
 
Back on topic: I'm eagerly anticipating the worst customer ever chapter... 

 

[7ryder]

There's a PS Audio PWT with native I2S output on Audiogon right now for $1299 which might be a good replacement for your Rotel.

 

[Maxvla]

There's a PS Audio PWT with native I2S output on Audiogon right now for $1299 which might be a good replacement for your Rotel.

Yeah but it's not Schiit, and it's way more than I would expect a Schiit transport to cost. I'm happy with my Rotel for now. Most of my use is computer as source anyway.