Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up

[theeclone]

Skoll Mani 2 Shootout!​

Finally gathered some thoughts on the Skoll vs Mani 2, and uploaded some rips made with each of them, so you can try to hear the difference yourself, and tell me if I'm crazy! At the bottom I'll post the links to both DSD and PCM versions of the rips, with some notes about how the files are named.

The setup​

• Audio Technica AT-LP7 Belt Drive Manual Turntable
• Hana EL Moving Coil (MC) Cartridge (elliptical stylus)
• Bespoke step-up transformer (SUT) purchased from eBay with Cinemag transformers
  • Loading: 37ohm unless otherwise indicated
• Straight Wire PYST RCA into either
  • Mani 2
    • 47kOhm resistive loading
    • Lowest capacitive loading
    • 42dB gain
  • Skoll
    • 47kOhm resistive loading
    • Lowest capacitive loading
    • 40dB gain (unless otherwise indicated)

Recording​

• Tascam DA-3000 master recorder
  • Balanced input fed from Skoll XLR Out
  • Unbalanced input fed from Mani 2
  • Recording format: DSD64
• Conversion from DSD to Flac files
  • 32:1 Decimation to 32 bit float (88.2KHz sample rate)
  • Dithered down to 20 bit (the proposed theoretical equivalent number of PCM bits of DSD64) with Reaper batch convert using the slowest compression setting

Listening​

• Freya N
  • Gain sockets: Noval Lisst
  • Follower sockets: Voshkod Rockets
  • Skoll input: Balanced
  • Mani 2 input: Unbalanced
• Outlaw 7000x amplifier (4 channels used for bi-amping)
  • Passive pre after balanced out of Freya N
  • Unbalanced out straight from Freya N
• Advent AS-2 Speakers

Tracks​

Scientist/Khruangbin - Como Te Quiero - 45RPM 7" (Relevant files: Como Te Quiero - mani2 - 42dB.[dsf,flac], Como Te Quiero - Skoll - 40dB.[dsf,flac])
Dub artists like Scientist were crucial in elevating mix engineering to a new kind of art form. A dub mix can really shine a light on how a 2 channel system performs. This was originally a track by Khruangbin, who make chill/funky music with influences from across the globe. They also play really well together and care about sonics.

- Skoll impressions
I felt the bass and kick, which are often in sync on this track, very strongly in the chest. The kick has a nice rounded, pillowy quality that was especially pleasing through the Skoll. This mix makes frequent use of a delay that ping-pongs between the channels. The Skoll's ability to move sounds seamlessly across a nice, wide soundstage made this especially effective. Also as the delayed signal fed back over time, the Skoll had an almost magical ability to track the changes in color and level. The reverb always sounded cohesive and smooth, with natural tails.

- Mani 2 impressions
While the Mani 2 showed impressive bass extension, I felt that bass wasn't quite as textured or controlled. The bass almost seemed to have less sustain. The soundstage width was good, but not quite up to Skoll standards, and the ping-pong delays stood out less to me. They seemed to move from left to right with a bit less precision. The reverb felt a bit less smooth and was actually a bit grainy as compared to the Skoll. As with the bass notes, the reverb tails seemed to drop off into the abyss a little sooner.

Kraftwerk - Home Computer - 33RPM 12" (Relevant files: Home Computer - mani2 - 42dB.[dsf,flac], Home Computer - Skoll - 40dB.[dsf,flac])
I thought this track would showcase transient response and dynamic control. There are lots of very fast-sounding percussive elements with subtle dynamic variations. I've always thought this album had some really inventive synthesis and was very well captured.

- Skoll impressions
As as I was beginning to suspect it might, the Skoll did a fabulous job of reproducing those fast percussive sounds. You can really sense the subtle changes of emphasis on certain notes. The synth bass was very textured and controlled. No squishiness here. The reverb was smooth and enveloping, but never seeming to cover over the important textures in the mix. Despite this being synthetic music, the sounds felt like they sometimes wrapped around or moved up and down vertically. It was an interesting effect.

- Mani 2 impressions
While the sound stage felt wide enough, it didn't quite match the Skoll's sound staging in other respects. In general things felt a bit more distant, less enveloping. Also, the dynamic control wasn't quite on par with the Skoll, so those percussive sounds tended to get a bit muddled and lacked a bit of liveliness. And while the overall tonal balance was good, this track can tend to come off harsh in some places, notably toward the end with the chirping computer sounds. I did get a bit of that harshness with Mani 2 as compared to Skoll.

Steely Dan - Kid Charlemange - 33RPM 12" (Relevant files: Kid Charlemange - mani2 - 42dB.[dsf,flac], Kid Charlemange - Skoll - 40dB.[dsf,flac])
I've always preferred the way this Greatest Hits album was mastered to some of the original album versions. Plenty of, shall we say, cojones?

- Skoll impressions
Plenty of slam. Somehow very relaxed yet full of detail. I got a pretty good sense of Bernard Purdy's ghost notes on the snare. His tom fills always seemed to come through and have impact as well. The lead vocals are not particularly high in the mix, yet through the Skoll I could always make them out, and they seemed to occupy a consistent space in the soundstage. [Special note: if you listen to the PCM version whose filename is mentioned above you may not catch some of these things. You wanna buy me some fancy DSD conversion software for north of a kilobuck? Huh? Do ya? The other tracks seemed to fare better after conversion than this one.]

- Mani2 imporessions
This is one where the Mani 2 somehow seemed to shine. The bass extension helped to fill out the picture, but again I felt the bass was less controlled than the Skoll's. And the Mani 2's somewhat bright presentation perhaps countered what may be a bit darker mastering than that of the album version. Larry Carlton's outro solo did sound a bit too polite to me. Is that the right word? With the Skoll it had more of a grab-you-by-the-lapels quality.

Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring (Berlin Philharmonic) - 33RPM 12" (Relevant files: Rite of Spring - mani2 - 42dB.[dsf,flac], Rite of Spring - Skoll - 40dB.[dsf,flac])
Ok, I'm a bit out of my element here as I don't really collect much classical on vinyl (although I'm enjoying discovering DSD as a format for that genre). But there are times when I've felt vinyl can bring out the visceral qualities of a classical piece. I can think of fewer more visceral passages in classical music than the last few minutes of Rite of Spring. I needle dropped at about 4 minutes before the end, so pardon my IGD.

- Skoll Impressions
Wow! That's what the Skoll made me say after the last sound of the piece. The sound that apparently Stravinsky and his critics weren't happy with as an ending, but how else could you end something like this? The Skoll makes it sound absolutely ferocious. And to back up, I found everything to sound quite organic and believable, even if a little pinch or inner groove distortion crept in here and there. I really got a sense of bows on strings. And while it was difficult to pinpoint certain instruments, I still got a fairly solid sense of placement from left to right, top to bottom. The timpani showed a good deal of variation from attack to sustain.

- Mani 2 Impressions
The sound staging was very competent. I just didn't think it was as solid, wide, or tall as the Skoll's. And once again the Mani 2's bright presentation came into play. Strings sounded a bit more shrill. Timpani didn't sound as foreboding, and would sometimes get a bit muddled.

The Verdict​

One word that kept coming to me as I thought about the Skoll's sound was: "texture". Also: "laid back", and: "smooth". I never felt that laid back and smooth presentation ever glossed anything over. There was still texture for days in every part of the spectrum.

I very much appreciate the flexibility of the Skoll as well. Maybe this is related to running an MC cart into a SUT before the preamps, but with the Mani 2, I couldn't go any higher than 42dB of gain via the bottom dip switches, or I would get ugly distortion and skewed tonal balance. With the Skoll, I could easily set the gain to 50dB without issue. The sound did become darker at that level (but also punchier and less fatiguing at unsafe levels), but again, I wonder if this has to do with running an MC cart with a SUT. I'm no electronics whiz. I think more digitally than analog, even though I like the sound of analog better. Somebody can tell me if I'm onto something with this theory.

Also, none of the perceived shortcomings I noticed with the Mani 2 are really that severe. It's just that the Skoll opens your eyes to these things. I was actually really impressed with how well the Mani 2 did all things considering. And it even seemed to shine on Steely Dan.

Note that I felt the Skoll's XLR outs performed better than the RCA outs. I found them smoother, less rolled off, and more engaging.

And the winner is...​

I mean, do I really have to say it? For me it's obviously Skoll!

Vinyl Rips​

As I mentioned near the top, most of the time I used 40dB/42dB gain on the Skoll/Mani, and 37ohm on the SUT. The manufacturer of the Hana EL recommends >400Ohm. Just so you can tell me whether or not I'm crazy, for Kid Charlemange I included some alternate loadings for certain rips, so you could hear it at 337Ohm and 600Ohm. I do not like it nearly as much at these settings. Is my SUT's switch settings table lying to me?

I also included rips with the Skoll set at 50dB. Hear how it gets darker but also punchier?

Note that I didn't go crazy matching the levels between files. You'll need to tweak things when A/B'ing. Also, I can't fully vouch for the PCM versions of the rips. I think the DSD files are the closest to what I was hearing direct into the Freya N. But I do think with the exception maybe of the Steely Dan tracks, the PCM conversions are quite good overall.

DSD Files​

https://mega.nz/folder/FAsHSajR#ctusBVAxxnn7o6CnxGjOlA

PCM Files​

https://mega.nz/folder/0VtEVR7b#uUsoRwB9Llh4UMLhuFrZaQ

 

[fendermke]

Did you have to start and stop them with your feet through the floorboards?

All cars back then were like that!

 

[jonathan c]

My Yggy OG should arrive next week. Can’t wait to add it to my signal chain of Freya + and Tyr. Urd will have to wait until I my build up my finances again. Until then I’ll make do** with my Audiolab 6000CDT.

The Yggy will replace my Bifrost 2/64 which goes to my office setup. Good things happening next week!

** Hey, I p-resent that! 6000CDT is excellent.

 

[AlessandroR]

Mudgard is here!

I'm not sure how I feel about the many different finishes, even the black buttons on the Midgard are now glossy black

Looks I will look into anodize the bunch some custom color, like orange or something.


Thanks to Y cables galore, XLRs and RCAs, plus the two SYS, I can connect them all to the Bifrost. Yay

 

[AlessandroR]

My first impressions of the Midgard. I'm not a seasoned reviewier and I'm basically a newbie, so please ignore what doesn't make sense to you.

IMHO, the Midgard is way quieter and cleaner than the Ragnarok via XLR or not. But so far I just tested about 2h of listening alternating both HD800S and 560S.
XLR is definitely cleaner than SE.

Volume all the way up with either headphone, in high gain, is simply Live music. Probably okay, if you still buy good seats to watch live music performances. Not for everyday usage of course...

Noise up top via 1/4 jack feels more "digital" than via XLR - less refined. It's definitely harder to notice with the planar.

Both the HD800 and and the 560 shows that XLR output adds something. But it's not about more or less noise it seems to me. Treble is way more pleasant, detailed, but round, not harsh. Somehow this seems to impact my subjective impression of Soundstage. When using the HALO XLR connector is way more airy, heaven like. It's not just about being truer to the tone, it's also adding soundstaging and more detailed imaging.

Fun facts. This is probably nothing to do with the HALO architecture, but this particular 1.0 implementation perhaps:

1. You unplug and plug it back again the XLR headphone cable, the sound never gets interrupted.

If you do the same with 1/4 jack, it takes a couple of seconds before it realizes it's not actually dying a horrible short circuit death. Not an issue at all, just interesting.

2. Using an XLR headphone. High gain mode, high volume (past 75%), XLR in from bifrost. If I select the left most switch to SE input, where nothing is connected to, I will faintly hear the music playing via XLR. Specially with the planar 560S (300Ohm) for some reason (the Dynanamic 800S shows this less).

So if the SE is leaking into the XLR, that can't be good? Or it is expected by design?

For this reason, I won't be using both inputs connected at the same time.

This is what I was listening to:

Tommy Igoe, Groove Conspiracy (live dynamics, lots of bass and cymbals)
Vashti Bunyan, Just Another Diamond Day and Some Things (late 60's vynil)
Chase & Status - No more idols (drum and bass)
Polyphia - New Levels (dynamic hell)
Eliana Elias - Piano and vocals - bad recording IMHO, but the Piano sounds so much better with halo. Also one of the few where the 560 Planar sounds clearly better than the 800S, besides of course, electronic music.
Lou Reed, Songs for Drella
Arne Domnerus, Stuffy (great song at full volume)

Just my 2c. I love the Midgard. I feel like I'm witnessing some sort of breakthrough, like the first time I pressed the Dolby button on a tape...lol

 

[adias]

Skoll Mani 2 Shootout!​

Finally gathered some thoughts on the Skoll vs Mani 2, and uploaded some rips made with each of them, so you can try to hear the difference yourself, and tell me if I'm crazy! At the bottom I'll post the links to both DSD and PCM versions of the rips, with some notes about how the files are named.

The setup​

• Audio Technica AT-LP7 Belt Drive Manual Turntable
• Hana EL MC Cartridge (elliptical stylus)
• Bespoke step-up transformer (SUT) purchased from eBay with Cinemag transformers
  • Loading: 37ohm unless otherwise indicated
• Straight Wire PYST RCA into either
  • Mani 2
    • 47kOhm resistive loading
    • Lowest capacitive loading
    • 42dB gain
  • Skoll
    • 47kOhm resistive loading
    • Lowest capacitive loading
    • 40dB gain (unless otherwise indicated)

Recording​

• Tascam DA-3000 master recorder
  • Balanced input fed from Skoll XLR Out
  • Unbalanced input fed from Mani 2
  • Recording format: DSD64
• Conversion from DSD to Flac files
  • 32:1 Decimation to 32 bit float (88.2KHz sample rate)
  • Dithered down to 20 bit (the proposed theoretical equivalent number of PCM bits of DSD64) with Reaper batch convert using the slowest compression setting

Listening​

• Freya N
  • Gain sockets: Noval Lisst
  • Follower sockets: Voshkod Rockets
  • Skoll input: Balanced
  • Mani 2 input: Unbalanced
• Outlaw 7000x amplifier (4 channels used for bi-amping)
  • Passive pre after balanced out of Freya N
  • Unbalanced out straight from Freya N
• Advent AS-2 Speakers

Tracks​

Scientist/Khruangbin - Como Te Quiero - 45RPM 7" (Relevant files: Como Te Quiero - mani2 - 42dB.[dsf,flac], Como Te Quiero - Skoll - 40dB.[dsf,flac])
Dub artists like Scientist were crucial in elevating mix engineering to a new kind of art form. A dub mix can really shine a light on how a 2 channel system performs. This was originally a track by Khruangbin, who make chill/funky music with influences from across the globe. They also play really well together and care about sonics.

- Skoll impressions
I felt the bass and kick, which are often in sync on this track, very strongly in the chest. The kick has a nice rounded, pillowy quality that was especially pleasing through the Skoll. This mix makes frequent use of a delay that ping-pongs between the channels. The Skoll's ability to move sounds seamlessly across a nice, wide soundstage made this especially effective. Also as the delayed signal fed back over time, the Skoll had an almost magical ability to track the changes in color and level. The reverb always sounded cohesive and smooth, with natural tails.

- Mani 2 impressions
While the Mani 2 showed impressive bass extension, I felt that bass wasn't quite as textured or controlled. The bass almost seemed to have less sustain. The soundstage width was good, but not quite up to Skoll standards, and the ping-pong delays stood out less to me. They seemed to move from left to right with a bit less precision. The reverb felt a bit less smooth and was actually a bit grainy as compared to the Skoll. As with the bass notes, the reverb tails seemed to drop off into the abyss a little sooner.

Kraftwerk - Home Computer - 33RPM 12" (Relevant files: Home Computer - mani2 - 42dB.[dsf,flac], Home Computer - Skoll - 40dB.[dsf,flac])
I thought this track would showcase transient response and dynamic control. There are lots of very fast-sounding percussive elements with subtle dynamic variations. I've always thought this album had some really inventive synthesis and was very well captured.

- Skoll impressions
As as I was beginning to suspect it might, the Skoll did a fabulous job of reproducing those fast percussive sounds. You can really sense the subtle changes of emphasis on certain notes. The synth bass was very textured and controlled. No squishiness here. The reverb was smooth and enveloping, but never seeming to cover over the important textures in the mix. Despite this being synthetic music, the sounds felt like they sometimes wrapped around or moved up and down vertically. It was an interesting effect.

- Mani 2 impressions
While the sound stage felt wide enough, it didn't quite match the Skoll's sound staging in other respects. In general things felt a bit more distant, less enveloping. Also, the dynamic control wasn't quite on par with the Skoll, so those percussive sounds tended to get a bit muddled and lacked a bit of liveliness. And while the overall tonal balance was good, this track can tend to come off harsh in some places, notably toward the end with the chirping computer sounds. I did get a bit of that harshness with Mani 2 as compared to Skoll.

Steely Dan - Kid Charlemange - 33RPM 12" (Relevant files: Kid Charlemange - mani2 - 42dB.[dsf,flac], Kid Charlemange - Skoll - 40dB.[dsf,flac])
I've always preferred the way this Greatest Hits album was mastered to some of the original album versions. Plenty of, shall we say, cojones?

- Skoll impressions
Plenty of slam. Somehow very relaxed yet full of detail. I got a pretty good sense of Bernard Purdy's ghost notes on the snare. His tom fills always seemed to come through and have impact as well. The lead vocals are not particularly high in the mix, yet through the Skoll I could always make them out, and they seemed to occupy a consistent space in the soundstage. [Special note: if you listen to the PCM version whose filename is mentioned above you may not catch some of these things. You wanna buy me some fancy DSD conversion software for north of a kilobuck? Huh? Do ya? The other tracks seemed to fare better after conversion than this one.]

- Mani2 imporessions
This is one where the Mani 2 somehow seemed to shine. The bass extension helped to fill out the picture, but again I felt the bass was less controlled than the Skoll's. And the Mani 2's somewhat bright presentation perhaps countered what may be a bit darker mastering than that of the album version. Larry Carlton's outro solo did sound a bit too polite to me. Is that the right word? With the Skoll it had more of a grab-you-by-the-lapels quality.

Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring (Berlin Philharmonic) - 33RPM 12" (Relevant files: Rite of Spring - mani2 - 42dB.[dsf,flac], Rite of Spring - Skoll - 40dB.[dsf,flac])
Ok, I'm a bit out of my element here as I don't really collect much classical on vinyl (although I'm enjoying discovering DSD as a format for that genre). But there are times when I've felt vinyl can bring out the visceral qualities of a classical piece. I can think of fewer more visceral passages in classical music than the last few minutes of Rite of Spring. I needle dropped at about 4 minutes before the end, so pardon my IGD.

- Skoll Impressions
Wow! That's what the Skoll made me say after the last sound of the piece. The sound that apparently Stravinsky and his critics weren't happy with as an ending, but how else could you end something like this? The Skoll makes it sound absolutely ferocious. And to back up, I found everything to sound quite organic and believable, even if a little pinch or inner groove distortion crept in here and there. I really got a sense of bows on strings. And while it was difficult to pinpoint certain instruments, I still got a fairly solid sense of placement from left to right, top to bottom. The timpani showed a good deal of variation from attack to sustain.

- Mani 2 Impressions
The sound staging was very competent. I just didn't think it was as solid, wide, or tall as the Skoll's. And once again the Mani 2's bright presentation came into play. Strings sounded a bit more shrill. Timpani didn't sound as foreboding, and would sometimes get a bit muddled.

The Verdict​

One word that kept coming to me as I thought about the Skoll's sound was: "texture". Also: "laid back", and: "smooth". I never felt that laid back and smooth presentation ever glossed anything over. There was still texture for days in every part of the spectrum.

I very much appreciate the flexibility of the Skoll as well. Maybe this is related to running an MC cart into a SUT before the preamps, but with the Mani 2, I couldn't go any higher than 42dB of gain via the bottom dip switches, or I would get ugly distortion and skewed tonal balance. With the Skoll, I could easily set the gain to 50dB without issue. The sound did become darker at that level (but also punchier and less fatiguing at unsafe levels), but again, I wonder if this has to do with running an MC cart with a SUT. I'm no electronics whiz. I think more digitally than analog, even though I like the sound of analog better. Somebody can tell me if I'm onto something with this theory.

Also, none of the perceived shortcomings I noticed with the Mani 2 are really that severe. It's just that the Skoll opens your eyes to these things. I was actually really impressed with how well the Mani 2 did all things considering. And it even seemed to shine on Steely Dan.

Note that I felt the Skoll's XLR outs performed better than the RCA outs. I found them smoother, less rolled off, and more engaging.

And the winner is...​

I mean, do I really have to say it? For me it's obviously Skoll!

Vinyl Rips​

As I mentioned near the top, most of the time I used 40dB/42dB gain on the Skoll/Mani, and 37ohm on the SUT. The manufacturer of the Hana EL recommends >400Ohm. Just so you can tell me whether or not I'm crazy, for Kid Charlemange I included some alternate loadings for certain rips, so you could hear it at 337Ohm and 600Ohm. I do not like it nearly as much at these settings. Is my SUT's switch settings table lying to me?

I also included rips with the Skoll set at 50dB. Hear how it gets darker but also punchier?

Note that I didn't go crazy matching the levels between files. You'll need to tweak things when A/B'ing. Also, I can't fully vouch for the PCM versions of the rips. I think the DSD files are the closest to what I was hearing direct into the Freya N. But I do think with the exception maybe of the Steely Dan tracks, the PCM conversions are quite good overall.

DSD Files​

https://mega.nz/folder/FAsHSajR#ctusBVAxxnn7o6CnxGjOlA

PCM Files​

https://mega.nz/folder/0VtEVR7b#uUsoRwB9Llh4UMLhuFrZaQ

Why do you use a step up transformer? Those were used in the past when phono preamps did not have enough gain. I would remove the SUT and use the 60dB gain stage.

 

[theeclone]

Why do you use a step up transformer? Those were used in the past when phono preamps did not have enough gain.

The Hana EL is a low output moving coil cartridge. The SUT offers more loading choices within the range specified by the manufacturer. It also sounds better to me than using Skoll's built-in resistive loading at low values.

 

[562955]

Hearing and interpretation of the observed audio is much more than frequency response. I have a friend who is approaching 86 years old, who claims that he cannot hear much above 6 to 8 Khz, and does not need "high fidelity" reproduction equipment. I recorded a track that he was familiar with in WAV, FLAC, and 3 or 4 flavors of MP3. When this was played back on his "mid-fi" system, he had no problem in discerning that WAV was better than FLAC, and the MP3 formats were inferior. Not a controlled test, but differences are discernible.

Fascinating and reflects how music works - I remember my Dad ( the acoustician ) hitting the bottom note on our baby grand piano and asking me 'does that sound like a very deep note ? ' Yes ' I replied ' very deep ' -- my Dad then said its not ' in reality ! its just your brain adding up all the overtones and resonances you can hear and telling you its a deep note .'

 

[Moondog55]

My anniversary is the day after my wife's birthday. Forgetting one would (likely) mean forgetting the other, and the fact that I'm still alive at this point indicates I haven't screwed up. Yet.

My wife's birthday is April 15. The Feds remind me annually.

 

[Ripper2860]

Better April 15th than April 1st, I would imagine.

 

[emorrison33]

I was going to give my impressions on the Skoll, but after @theeclone review, I'm gonna keep my mouth shut, for the most part. I agree with things he has mentioned though, like:

One word that kept coming to me as I thought about the Skoll's sound was: "texture". Also: "laid back", and: "smooth". I never felt that laid back and smooth presentation ever glossed anything over. There was still texture for days in every part of the spectrum.

He also mentioned the timpani. The "attack", that initial strike sound you get, it is much more realistic through the Skoll than the Mani 2. I played the timpani for a few years, so I do look for certain things in classical music...things to look for with the sound. Anyway, my review of the Skoll....It's good! Gotta try balanced out into the Freya N this weekend.

 

[LanceSaintPaul]

Better April 15th than April 1st, I would imagine.

Hey! That's our anniversary = really, literally! 40 years this year....

 

[RCBinTN]

My birthday is on Valentine's Day. Awww, I know. I'm finding lately that birthdays are less and less relevant, you know?

 

[FLTWS]

My birthday is on Valentine's Day. Awww, I know. I'm finding lately that birthdays are less and less relevant, you know?

I'd like to forget mine but mine is New Years day, and everybody everywhere around the earth celebrates. Kinda tough to ignore it

 

[DavidSerig]

@Jason Stoddard can you tell me what kind of connector is the connection thing with the 4-5 metal teeth that sticks out of the SOL turntable? I am asking Hart Cables to make a 'that thing' to XLR for my new Skoll coming today. But they can't figure out what 'that thing' is.

Help? Anyone?