Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Jun 19, 2016 at 5:26 PM Post #11,251 of 72,810

JohnnyCanuck

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  ... and it was like the TV was bonching together with the music!!!...

I looked up "bonching" to see if it was a thing, and I now wish I hadn't. 
blink.gif

 
Damn!  Now you made me google it.
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 6:58 PM Post #11,252 of 72,810

McClelland

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And my home office near field setup of Wyrd, Yggy, Rag, KEF LS50, JLAudio e110sub, and Audeze LCD-X over WyWires Red put a complete stop to my need to EVER think about spending another dollar on audio electronics. I got pretty heated reading this month's edition of TAS and seeing JV falling all over himself about the latest and greatest 105K table with the 19K arm and then seeing the ad for the same table sporting not one but FOUR arms on it!!! My kid's 4 year college education sitting there waiting to do nothing more important than to spin some grooved plastic.

This sounds like a great setup.  I read "office" first, as in big office building and thought that must be interesting.  Who needs a "Do Not Bother" sign when all they have to do is listen for the sound or feel the sub vibrating against the knob.  Then I saw "home office".  Can you write it off?
 
Are you driving the sub from the Rag SE outs and the KEFs from the Rag speaker posts?
 
 
Do you know how your KEFs compare to the less expensive KEF X300A?
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 8:09 PM Post #11,253 of 72,810

McClelland

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Try to audition the Gelenec M030 or M040.
 

 
 
I have a pair of M030 (they are around USD500 each) and they deliver the most pristine sound that I've ever heard. If someday they die, I'll buy another pair without even looking at other brands.
 
And while subjective, I love the design. Very modern yet minimalist.


The Fins are at work.  Thanks for this recommendation as I didn't know  about them.  I'll check them out.  They have a sub.  Are you playing them with a one and if so, do they connect in series from the MJ2 to a sub to the M030s or does the design with amp for the woofer and amp for the tweeter work well enough without a sub? 
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 8:19 PM Post #11,254 of 72,810

earnmyturns

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Do you know how your KEFs compare to the less expensive KEF X300A?

Very different beasts. The X300As are powered speakers with their own internal DAC as well, intended as a good price/convenience/performance tradeoff. The LS50s, OTOH, were the best speakers KEF could build in that form factor when they came out, and they got uniformly very strong reviews, including with the Rag pairing. I had a pair for a while, loved them, but then I moved and the new, much larger living room was too big for the LS50s, even with a high-powered amp, so I traded them in for KEF Reference 1s.
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 9:43 PM Post #11,255 of 72,810

McClelland

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  Very different beasts. The X300As are powered speakers with their own internal DAC as well, intended as a good price/convenience/performance tradeoff. The LS50s, OTOH, were the best speakers KEF could build in that form factor when they came out, and they got uniformly very strong reviews, including with the Rag pairing. I had a pair for a while, loved them, but then I moved and the new, much larger living room was too big for the LS50s, even with a high-powered amp, so I traded them in for KEF Reference 1s.


Thanks, the LS50s might for a future moment if I moved to a Rag.
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 10:29 PM Post #11,256 of 72,810

Oveja Negra

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The Fins are at work.  Thanks for this recommendation as I didn't know  about them.  I'll check them out.  They have a sub.  Are you playing them with a one and if so, do they connect in series from the MJ2 to a sub to the M030s or does the design with amp for the woofer and amp for the tweeter work well enough without a sub? 

 
I think a subwoofer for a movie setup is absolutely necessary, whereas for music reproduction is only needed if you're using very small speakers. Genelec M030 woofer is 5" (for the M040 is 6.5") which in my opinion can't be considered small at all.
 
Since I own the M030, I can only comment on them (@Zojokkeli can comment on the M040) and to be honest, I don't see the need for a subwoofer. The M030s deliver plenty of bass, the low frequencies are super tight, punchy and controlled.
 
When I listen this James Blake tune
 
 
if the volume of my Asgard 2 is around 11 o'clock, the deep bass sound that you can hear around 0:55 makes my home office's windows to begin to rattle (the room is 25 m2 approx.) and I for sure feel the punch in my chest. That's more than enough for me. In fact, at that level, being a meter away from the speakers make my ears hurt.
 
What I'm trying to say is: If you're going to use them for nearfield listening, in my opinion, the M030s have more than enough power and bass extension. Having said that, if you're a basshead, go for the M040 (they provide both more power and lower freq response), but a pair of M040 are around USD1600.
 
Other option is to buy a pair of M030 for USD1000 (pair) + Genelec subwoofer 7040A for USD795 (that model is recommended for the M series). I think that would be the ultimate combo for your needs haha
biggrin.gif

 
Good luck finding your perfect setup!
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 10:48 PM Post #11,257 of 72,810

FrivolsListener

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Fair point. But hey: you don't have an integrated 2 bucks DAC for playback, flashy neon lights or assorted VU meter displays, a yearly subscription to Tidal, HDDtracks discounts and MQA certification, as well as an integrated phono stage... :) Hopefully Schiit's wares don't go the way of the Xbox One, where you can browse the web and order pizza.

 
But that's my point.  It's a one function box (amp) that is anything but simple. :)
 
Jun 20, 2016 at 1:27 AM Post #11,259 of 72,810

AudioMan612

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I think a subwoofer for a movie setup is absolutely necessary, whereas for music reproduction is only needed if you're using very small speakers. Genelec M030 woofer is 5" (for the M040 is 6.5") which in my opinion can't be considered small at all.
 
Since I own the M030, I can only comment on them (@Zojokkeli can comment on the M040) and to be honest, I don't see the need for a subwoofer. The M030s deliver plenty of bass, the low frequencies are super tight, punchy and controlled.
 
When I listen this James Blake tune
 
 
if the volume of my Asgard 2 is around 11 o'clock, the deep bass sound that you can hear around 0:55 makes my home office's windows to begin to rattle (the room is 25 m2 approx.) and I for sure feel the punch in my chest. That's more than enough for me. In fact, at that level, being a meter away from the speakers make my ears hurt.
 
What I'm trying to say is: If you're going to use them for nearfield listening, in my opinion, the M030s have more than enough power and bass extension. Having said that, if you're a basshead, go for the M040 (they provide both more power and lower freq response), but a pair of M040 are around USD1600.
 
Other option is to buy a pair of M030 for USD1000 (pair) + Genelec subwoofer 7040A for USD795 (that model is recommended for the M series). I think that would be the ultimate combo for your needs haha
biggrin.gif

 
Good luck finding your perfect setup!

 
Keep in mind that there are full range loudspeakers out there that can go quite low, sometimes even lower than a small subwoofer.  I listened to plenty of two channel setups that could dip quite low.  That's not to say that a subwoofer couldn't help them even more, but it was certainly not necessary.

Also, keep in mind that when recommending speakers, especially those with similar sound signatures, that room size will come into play, even with nearfield setups (unless you're lucky enough to have a space so large that walls and the ceiling essentially don't matter).  In a small enough space, a smaller loudspeaker sometimes sound better, or at the very least, be easier to setup acoustically.

To throw in some other speakers for nearfield listening, the KEF LS50's have been mentioned, and they are fantastic.  The pair we have at work wasn't matched well though (I have access to CLIO and Audio Precision equipment to test them), so I'm debating whether I want to try to get that handled.
 
ProAc Studio 100's (the older model, not the newer SM100, which I have not heard) are a classic and a studio staple (I have a friend that owns a few pairs).  They were never designed to be studio monitors, but they do a great job at it.  They are very accurate, but not harsh of fatiguing.

Those new Elac Debut loudspeakers (the entire range) are fantastic for the money.  I've gotten to hear them with some higher-end amplification such as a Bel Canto integrated amp, and they are clearly one of the best values in loudspeakers right now.

If you're into that kind of British sound, with a smooth not-very-bright treble, you could look into something like a Wharfedale Diamond 10.2.
 
I could keep going on, but you get the idea.  Whatever you get, be sure to spend some time getting the acoustics right!  Put your loudspeakers on isolation pads, if you have the room and are dealing with corners, consider getting some bass traps, etc.
 
Jun 20, 2016 at 2:22 AM Post #11,260 of 72,810

Zojokkeli

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The Fins are at work.  Thanks for this recommendation as I didn't know  about them.  I'll check them out.  They have a sub.  Are you playing them with a one and if so, do they connect in series from the MJ2 to a sub to the M030s or does the design with amp for the woofer and amp for the tweeter work well enough without a sub? 

 
If you want to add a sub, you can connect the sub to the MJ2, and the M030's to the sub. Just remember to pick up the recommended amp, as it automatically cuts the low frequencies of the speakers. I don't use a sub with my M040's because I have to mind my neighbors, but if you don't have that problem then I'll definitely recommend adding one to the mix.
 
Jun 20, 2016 at 6:48 AM Post #11,261 of 72,810

Faber65

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High-end pricing is not surprising. This is a good example of market with asymmetric information when seller/manufacturer has more information about product quality than buyer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry). This leads to marketing low-quality products as high-quality. The only solution is to reduce/eliminate asymmetry – buyers must have instruments/methods to asses quality of audio gear. Current audio metric is very complicated and has low correlation to perceived audio quality. We are working on better metric and results are promising.

Great job, Sir!!!
 
Jun 20, 2016 at 9:54 AM Post #11,262 of 72,810

jacal01

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Quote:
I guess when you have obscene amounts of money it doesn't matter how much your system costs, or then the whole point is just to show off, not listening to music.
 
Quote:
  It's not the size of someone's bank balance, it's the size of their insecurity.

 
I call it the magpie syndrome.  Bling ain't cheap.
 
OTOH, there is the second crowd that subscribes to the adage, "You get what you pay for."  In the absence of being knowledgeable about the subject matter, and commensurate with their ability to pay, that in all probability accounts for a substantial percentage of the high end purchases that drive the market. 
 
Who actually buys their car based on drivability comparisons, discernible functional quality differences or added capabilities?
 
Jun 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM Post #11,263 of 72,810

GearMe

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I call it the magpie syndrome.  Bling ain't cheap.

OTOH, there is the second crowd that subscribes to the adage, "You get what you pay for."  In the absence of being knowledgeable about the subject matter, and commensurate with their ability to pay, that in all probability accounts for a substantial percentage of the high end purchases that drive the market. 

Who actually buys their car based on drivability comparisons, discernible functional quality differences or added capabilities?
Subaru owners?

yeah...we own an Outback :wink:
 
Jun 20, 2016 at 4:40 PM Post #11,265 of 72,810

mikoss

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Value can come in different forms with headphones too; it doesn't necessarily need to be a better sound. Often I've been listening with my HD-650's and thought to myself, "The sound is nice, but I'd gladly pay an extra $1600 for wood cups... or $2600 for fake wood/leather, or maybe $3600 more for some beryllium..."
 
Basically what I mean is that if the headphones don't sound as good, the best marketing plan is to throw some bling on them and charge a whole lot more.
 

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