[AudioBear]

  With a well-designed OB system "sweet spot" has less meaning. 

t's hard for people to "get it' about that unless they've spent some time with an OB system.  When I hooked up my first one I was amazed, and still am, by the way they fill a room with life-like sound.

 

[tonykaz]

Mistahhhh Ableza,
 
Live isn't all that great anymore.
 
I went to a Live Jazz at Schoolcraft College where the Group's PA was horrible!, I went to DSO over the weekend for Live ( using Our Company Guest Seats, might be the best in house ) only to hear a better sound quality from their LIVE Broadcast ( at my Home ).  My little Town does outdoor festivals with Live Music ( like those folks that play flutes and music from the Andes , which I love and collect) their recordings are better than the outdoor event performance.  
 
LIVE is a fun, social experience but the Recordings are usually better. Times have changed, our gear is muuuuuuuch better than we ever had.  I'm having a wonderful Old Age. 
 
Tony in Michigan

 

[Sarvasaha]

 
My older AAA's have recorded rumble, they even have very low frequency sounds like Train Station rumbling sounds.  I don't know if I ever considered these sounds before, my friend noticed them and pointed them out.  Then we started listening to the rumble on all my older recordings, almost as a curious discovery, we went after those very low sounds in earnest, we hear Stage sounds from the Orchestra members, we heard wood floor noises like soft whumps, all manner of these low frequency sounds had us imagining and guessing their origins, what fun for a couple old geezers.  
 
Howizit, we never heard this before?, 

This will be the equalisation (well high pass filtering) done to limit the amount of low frequency in vinyl to prevent the piece of rock from jumping out of the groove on playback. and why we have got used to Bass and Kick drum being right in the middle.

 

[Ableza]

 
Mistahhhh Ableza,
 
Live isn't all that great anymore.
 
I went to a Live Jazz at Schoolcraft College where the Group's PA was horrible!, I went to DSO over the weekend for Live ( using Our Company Guest Seats, might be the best in house ) only to hear a better sound quality from their LIVE Broadcast ( at my Home ).  My little Town does outdoor festivals with Live Music ( like those folks that play flutes and music from the Andes , which I love and collect) their recordings are better than the outdoor event performance.  
 
LIVE is a fun, social experience but the Recordings are usually better. Times have changed, our gear is muuuuuuuch better than we ever had.  I'm having a wonderful Old Age. 
 
Tony in Michigan

Oh I know... but there's still nothing like the sound of live acoustic music.

 

[valiant66]

  So here's my challenge to Schiit.  You design great amps and great digital processors. As noted above, active speakers with built-in DSP can be made to sound very good indeed.  If you design a speaker with an open-baffle design, multiple amps, and Mike Moffat's DSP magic you aren't really in the traditional speaker building business and you don't have to play with tuning speakers in a box.  You are using 21st century technology to improve the quality at a given price point.  Is there a market for a Schiit active speaker that does at $1200 what Meridien does at $12,000?  That's for Schiit to decide. 

 
Interesting you should pick $1200 as a price point. Jason actually called out an open-baffle 3-driver speaker as an example of good American-made speakers. However, the Spatial M4's are not active (and the other models price up really quickly) but they look really interesting.
 
It would be pretty cool if Schiit made something active along those lines.
 
But I'm still expecting power amps first, since Jason has firmly stated no transducers multiple, multiple times and only said no power amps a few times.

 

[AndreYew]

Active speakers' electronics don't need to be contained within the enclosure either. I run a pair of Linkwitz Orions and it uses a conventional amp and its active crossover is also in a separate box.

The Spatial M4s look very interesting: it's great to see dynamic driver dipoles on the market.

 

[DSNORD]

In line with the question of “When?” as the topic of your latest chapter, I want to personally thank you, Jason and Mike, for “When”-ing me for the second time this year.
 
I started my HeadFi journey in 2014 with a Mjolnir/Gungnir stack driving balanced LCD-X phones as my reference “near field” system in my home office, not having the space, dollars, and wife-acceptance-factor to do a big expensive rig in my family room. I love the headphone experience, but I missed the natural open feeling of speakers as well as the social sharing of music with other family members.
 
So I upgraded Mjolnir to the Rag driving KEF LS50s and a JLAudio e110 sub. A truly spectacular system which I was totally happy with…until Yggy was released, and upgraditis hit and moved it into the system replacing the Gungnir. And that was when the first “When” hit. I can’t see how anything can beat this setup in my room. I’m TOTALLY satisfied with it and daily discover details in my collection that I truly never heard before even though having listened to the same stuff for years. Bang for the buck, the store is now closed. 
 
The only problem was that I had a mint condition M/G stack sitting around with nowhere to go. I thought about selling it but figured just maybe a place would open up for it to be used in the future. Well, that spot just arrived last week when I moved my office at work from a big, beautiful, windowed corner space to one half as big and a lot darker so that 2 critical employees newly jammed into the little office had room to breathe. Sometimes the boss has to take one for the team. 
 
However, if I was to sardine it for the future, I just HAD to have a great sound system to make it palatable. I upgraded my dinky Dell sound bar to my M/G stack being fed from a Sonos/WD NAS and an XLR Yamaha HS8S sub to round out the bottom. Now I only had to find some powered XLR desktop monitors for the Mjolnir to drive via the pre-out. 
 
I researched Adams, Eves, Genelecs, and some other pro audio brands but wasn’t seeing anything in my price range- for an office system that might get used 15-30 minutes a day, I just wasn’t going to spend as much or more than on my home system. 
 
Then I remember this thread and Jason highly praising the Emotivas, so I had a look. A set of Airmotiv 5s now sit on my desk and are burning in with pink noise. Even at the 1 hour point as I was cycling through some very familiar tracks, I knew that I had my second “When”. 
 
And the icing on the cake came today as I popped open the email from Debbie Baugher, Customer Care Specialist, at Emotiva. The price of the 5s dropped from $399 a pair to $279 while my set was in transit from them to me. I asked if they would refund the difference, and she was happy to make me happy. 
 
Two GREAT companies. Two “When”s in one year. And I am a total fanboy of both for life.
 
At this stage of the game, I’m not at all impressed with the “cost no object” mentality of the major players. If I was getting into the action as a newbie manufacturer, I would be following Schiit’s and Emotiva’s lead in giving customers the biggest bang for the lowest buck possible. I’ve always tried to give my clients the greatest value for their money and really appreciate those companies that do the same to me. I'd rather sell a million $1 widgets than one at $1,000,000. 
 
And an area I’d REALLY like to see Schiit skewer is the upward dueling spiral that has started with the headphone/IEM manufacturers. At the rate they are going now, it will soon be cheaper to strap on a pair of Magico Q5s and call it a day!!!
 
DSNORD

 

[jfoxvol]

  In line with the question of “When?” as the topic of your latest chapter, I want to personally thank you, Jason and Mike, for “When”-ing me for the second time this year.
 
I started my HeadFi journey in 2014 with a Mjolnir/Gungnir stack driving balanced LCD-X phones as my reference “near field” system in my home office, not having the space, dollars, and wife-acceptance-factor to do a big expensive rig in my family room. I love the headphone experience, but I missed the natural open feeling of speakers as well as the social sharing of music with other family members.
 
So I upgraded Mjolnir to the Rag driving KEF LS50s and a JLAudio e110 sub. A truly spectacular system which I was totally happy with…until Yggy was released, and upgraditis hit and moved it into the system replacing the Gungnir. And that was when the first “When” hit. I can’t see how anything can beat this setup in my room. I’m TOTALLY satisfied with it and daily discover details in my collection that I truly never heard before even though having listened to the same stuff for years. Bang for the buck, the store is now closed. 
 
The only problem was that I had a mint condition M/G stack sitting around with nowhere to go. I thought about selling it but figured just maybe a place would open up for it to be used in the future. Well, that spot just arrived last week when I moved my office at work from a big, beautiful, windowed corner space to one half as big and a lot darker so that 2 critical employees newly jammed into the little office had room to breathe. Sometimes the boss has to take one for the team. 
 
However, if I was to sardine it for the future, I just HAD to have a great sound system to make it palatable. I upgraded my dinky Dell sound bar to my M/G stack being fed from a Sonos/WD NAS and an XLR Yamaha HS8S sub to round out the bottom. Now I only had to find some powered XLR desktop monitors for the Mjolnir to drive via the pre-out. 
 
I researched Adams, Eves, Genelecs, and some other pro audio brands but wasn’t seeing anything in my price range- for an office system that might get used 15-30 minutes a day, I just wasn’t going to spend as much or more than on my home system. 
 
Then I remember this thread and Jason highly praising the Emotivas, so I had a look. A set of Airmotiv 5s now sit on my desk and are burning in with pink noise. Even at the 1 hour point as I was cycling through some very familiar tracks, I knew that I had my second “When”. 
 
And the icing on the cake came today as I popped open the email from Debbie Baugher, Customer Care Specialist, at Emotiva. The price of the 5s dropped from $399 a pair to $279 while my set was in transit from them to me. I asked if they would refund the difference, and she was happy to make me happy. 
 
Two GREAT companies. Two “When”s in one year. And I am a total fanboy of both for life.
 
At this stage of the game, I’m not at all impressed with the “cost no object” mentality of the major players. If I was getting into the action as a newbie manufacturer, I would be following Schiit’s and Emotiva’s lead in giving customers the biggest bang for the lowest buck possible. I’ve always tried to give my clients the greatest value for their money and really appreciate those companies that do the same to me. I'd rather sell a million $1 widgets than one at $1,000,000. 
 
And an area I’d REALLY like to see Schiit skewer is the upward dueling spiral that has started with the headphone/IEM manufacturers. At the rate they are going now, it will soon be cheaper to strap on a pair of Magico Q5s and call it a day!!!
 
DSNORD

Similar journey here with very similar gear.

 

[DSNORD]

Thinking about it some more, I have to give Schiit credit for a 3rd 'When".
 
My 2 systems have taught me that there is so much information stored in Redbook 16/44.1, that one merely needs to have the proper "can openers" to thoroughly enjoy the format.
 
I can now completely turn off all the nonsense and apprehension about achieving "The Best Sound Quality" via upsampling, downsampling, sideways sampling, HiRez, SkyHiRez, HD, SHD, UHD, D so high only bats can hear it D, etc., etc.
 
My hardware problems are solved. Now it's time to solve the need for more software. A truly Schiity problem to have!!!!!
 
DSNORD

 

[kstuart]

 

  Well lets think this through.
 
If you are listening to the same music live -
-edit-

Comparing the sound of any music playback system with that of live is rather foolish and a sure setup for disappointment, IMO.  But that topic aside (which is a red herring) the key is to create a system you like.   I like the sound of my system, created over my many years in this hobby/industry, and like I said initially to each his own.  You do what you like and I won't judge it.  I plan to do what I like and I really don't care if you or anyone else judges it, because it won't matter at all to me. 

I think there is a miscommunications here.
 
I said "a DAC should be transparent" and you said "that's your opinion" and I was assuming "opinion" meaning "viewpoint on an issue".
 
What you just described is "personal taste" and "creating a system to give maximum enjoyment".
 
I would not have an issue with either of those things.
 
However when you say "Comparing the sound of any music playback system with that of live is rather foolish..." then you are venturing back into "viewpoint on an issue".
 
If you ask any number of recording engineers, and for that matter - Jason and Mike - I'm sure most, if not all, would say that comparing the sound of live instruments with the sound of recorded live instruments is the only reference point that should be used for designing music playback equipment.  In fact, I am pretty sure that Mike said that in this thread earlier.
 
That is the meaning of "fidelity", as in a "high fidelity" sound system.
 
UPDATE:  Here is the post in this thread where Mike says this:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/667711/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil/6570#post_11565809

 

[GearMe]

I think there is a miscommunications here.

I said "a DAC should be transparent" and you said "that's your opinion" and I was assuming "opinion" meaning "viewpoint on an issue".

What you just described is "personal taste" and "creating a system to give maximum enjoyment".

I would not have an issue with either of those things.

However when you say "Comparing the sound of any music playback system with that of live is rather foolish..." then you are venturing back into "viewpoint on an issue".

If you ask any number of recording engineers, and for that matter - Jason and Mike - I'm sure most, if not all, would say that comparing the sound of live instruments with the sound of recorded live instruments is the only reference point that should be used for designing music playback equipment.  In fact, I am pretty sure that Mike said that in this thread earlier.

That is the meaning of "fidelity", as in a "high fidelity" sound system.

UPDATE:  Here is the post in this thread where Mike says this:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/667711/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil/6570#post_11565809

UGH!

100 Recording Engineers in a room listening/mixing/etc. a live performance will hear 100 different versions of the same piece of music being played and lay down 100 different versions on their final master to be released for public consumption. Which one do I want my version to sound like?

 

[wink]

 
Oh I know... but there's still nothing like the sound of live acoustic music.

I heard a cello and piano playing Arvo Part's Spiegel Im Spiegel live without any PA gear, and it was totally immersive.
 
Who needs a PA system to destroy the sound unless you're in a mausoleum colliseum up in the nosebleed section trying to hear good music.
 
Give it a rest and listen in a small venue where the performance doesn't need amplification.

 

[wink]

UGH!

100 Recording Engineers in a room listening/mixing/etc. a live performance will hear 100 different versions of the same piece of music being played and lay down 100 different versions on their final master to be released for public consumption. Which one do I want my version to sound like?

The best one....   

 

[chipwelder]

I built my own active speakers, analog active... because using DSP's made everything sound perfectly boring, which led to my realisation that frequency response is not everything, it is desirable, but only if the drawbacks of achieving that desirable - mostly flat frequency response - is not costing you more, and with dsp it often did.
 
But I am talking 5-8 years ago now, which could be a lifetime in dsp's. The first iterations of mini-dsp and behringer dsp2496 etc.. sounded pretty poor, I haven't heard the later versions. this may not work for you, deriving pleasure from the reproduction of music is after all subjective.
 
Surface mount is definitely not more vibration resistent... very little flex in a board will crack solder joints or components in my experience.

 

[Ableza]

 
I think there is a miscommunications here.

You obviously really need to be "right" so let me say it: you are right.  For you.
 
The truth is there is no absolute "right and wrong" in audio, there is only what appeals to each individual's taste.  So you do what sounds good to you and I'll do what sounds good to me and for the third time in this discussion, to each his own.