[RickB]

Let me be totally clear: I have never seen an anodized part that was successfully stripped and re-anodized without (a) some very weird color shifts, (b) unacceptable grain, (c) super obvious visible problems--like the panels being actually thinner, or coined at the edges. Never. Nada. None. Doesn't happen. Once an anodized part is damaged, the only viable repair is powder coat. Which I happen to like. Which another principal at another large consumer electronics firm liked--to the point where he wondered why we didn't just do everything black. Which is also used by other companies on products that cost many multiples of ours. So there is that.

And unanodized parts? We never see those. We order parts finished, because anything else is madness, a forest of finger-pointing and recrimination. The problem we're having is that the mill-finish aluminum we use on the smaller products is getting impossible to find (at least the stuff without marks on it--yes, marks on virgin aluminum, yes, the world is not perfect, we are not all Apple with cities overseas dedicated to smelting/forging/machining/reusing scraps/perfecting whatever automated process they use to make MacBooks and such look almost all alike...but not quite, LOL). The non-mill-finish postgrained finish has been problematic since inception, and never quite matches in grain/color/shininess/etc due to the natural variation of clear anodize, the phase of the moon, the ambient temperature, whether or not the anodizer has sacrificed a chicken before starting the process, etc, etc.

So what does this all mean?

Black powder always works. Black always matches. Black can be refinished if we bone it up.

Grain and clear anodize is variable, painful, and subject to the vagaries of mills. And we haven't been able to make it consistent in 11 years.

So it's either gonna be:

a. perpetual backorder for silver, because we can't make as much as we like
b. price rise on silver, so if people still want it, it's worth it to make more
c. a sprayed silver finish that's acceptable, like black

To date, I have seen no silver I'm totally happy with. I have other samples, so we'll see. There have been no decisions made. But you can take black anodize off the table. We're looking at more consistent finishes, not less. And black anodize is worse than clear.

As I said, we'll see what happens. My personal preference is silver, so whatever solution we come up with has to make me happy. Which bodes well for the availability of brushed product--even if it ends up being more rare, or more expensive.

Thank you for this post; it explains a lot!

 

[j0val]

Let me be totally clear: I have never seen an anodized part that was successfully stripped and re-anodized without (a) some very weird color shifts, (b) unacceptable grain, (c) super obvious visible problems--like the panels being actually thinner, or coined at the edges. Never. Nada. None. Doesn't happen. Once an anodized part is damaged, the only viable repair is powder coat. Which I happen to like. Which another principal at another large consumer electronics firm liked--to the point where he wondered why we didn't just do everything black. Which is also used by other companies on products that cost many multiples of ours. So there is that.

And unanodized parts? We never see those. We order parts finished, because anything else is madness, a forest of finger-pointing and recrimination. The problem we're having is that the mill-finish aluminum we use on the smaller products is getting impossible to find (at least the stuff without marks on it--yes, marks on virgin aluminum, yes, the world is not perfect, we are not all Apple with cities overseas dedicated to smelting/forging/machining/reusing scraps/perfecting whatever automated process they use to make MacBooks and such look almost all alike...but not quite, LOL). The non-mill-finish postgrained finish has been problematic since inception, and never quite matches in grain/color/shininess/etc due to the natural variation of clear anodize, the phase of the moon, the ambient temperature, whether or not the anodizer has sacrificed a chicken before starting the process, etc, etc.

So what does this all mean?

Black powder always works. Black always matches. Black can be refinished if we bone it up.

Grain and clear anodize is variable, painful, and subject to the vagaries of mills. And we haven't been able to make it consistent in 11 years.

So it's either gonna be:

a. perpetual backorder for silver, because we can't make as much as we like
b. price rise on silver, so if people still want it, it's worth it to make more
c. a sprayed silver finish that's acceptable, like black

To date, I have seen no silver I'm totally happy with. I have other samples, so we'll see. There have been no decisions made. But you can take black anodize off the table. We're looking at more consistent finishes, not less. And black anodize is worse than clear.

As I said, we'll see what happens. My personal preference is silver, so whatever solution we come up with has to make me happy. Which bodes well for the availability of brushed product--even if it ends up being more rare, or more expensive.

Since the topic is on color finishes, any insight into the cause of delays for black Jot 2’s? I know of some who have been waiting for weeks past the estimated shipping timeframe (myself included). And support hasn’t offered a consistent response. Would be nice to have a better estimate on when they’ll start shipping again.

Although, i did end up buying a black Lyr 3 and love it. Thanks!

 

[Alcophone]

And unanodized parts? We never see those. We order parts finished, because anything else is madness, a forest of finger-pointing and recrimination.

I suppose this is where the confusion came from: the assumption that the brushed silver you use is not, in fact, anodized.

Thank you for providing all those details! Would powder coated silver look roughly like the old SYS? In that case... black is the new silver.

 

[Scott Kramer]

(c) replaced by a silver powder akin to the black, but, like, silver.

yikes-- you may kill a bit of the schiit charm- inconsistent, yet beautiful brushed aluminum

 

[JamminVMI]

Did to our proximity to the last metric holdout, we speak both Imperial and metric up here.
.

Lol. I grew up with metric (away from the aforementioned holdout), so my box holds both as well.

 

[JamminVMI]

Not the last. There are three.

And the UK is on the undecided or waffling side. 300 yards to the next exit…

 

[bifcake]

I just finished the last chapter, so I seem to have come a bit late to the party. Going back to the T's in engineering, I would have thought there would have been one big T when it comes to engineering an amplifier and that would be the goal of what the amplifier should be - wire with gain. If that's the goal, then the how doesn't really matter. It would be like reaching the peak of the mountain - it wouldn't matter which side of the mountain you used to climb it.

If wire with gain is not the goal, then what would it be? Pleasant sounding distortion?

 

[leafy7382]

Actually it might be an interesting business to 're-package' Schitt offerings in alternative casing. Imagine how the Yggdrasil might look like in an all-milled aluminum block. Yeah, the warranty would be out of the question of course.

 

[bboris77]

As I said, we'll see what happens. My personal preference is silver, so whatever solution we come up with has to make me happy. Which bodes well for the availability of brushed product--even if it ends up being more rare, or more expensive.

I would be ok with a choice between a black/silver powder-coated finish vs paying a small upcharge for a premium brushed aluminum product. I think it would be reasonable to offer this premium finish for medium/large size products only and make it $25-$50 extra based on the size of the chassis.

There’s nothing worse than a backordered product solely based on your choice of finish/color IMO. I’d rather pay a small premium than wait.

I do have a question about the choice of material for painted finishes. I remember the days of Schiit using painted steel instead of aluminium for various entry-level products. Would that be an option for products with no heat sinking requirements?

 

[OldRoadToad]

A few answers:

• Custom product for some bizarre laptop? Ah, no. We actually considered doing something for Google's modular phone. About the same level of crazy, and we decided in the end it's not a great idea. Not us. Not happening.
• Solid state preamps: first articles came in for Freya S today, and they passed all tests. Give us 2-3 weeks and we'll be shipping those again. For a while. No guarantees on future availability. We're still waiting on Sagas of both flavors. Remember that spooling up new PCB assembly firms is like matting the gas on a 1978 Porsche Turbo...wait...wait...wait...wait...ZOOM! We're still on like the third or fourth "wait."
• Brushed vs powder finish: if we raise prices--likely significantly--on the brushed products to reduce the order rate, that would work fine, at least on the larger products. But we'll see what we come up with. This is still in evaluation. We'll see what happens.
• Refinishing brushed: trololololol...no. There is no refinishing an anodized aluminum piece. At least not successfully, to a consumer-level finish. "Refinishing," means "powder-coat it black."

Again, things are crazy busy around here. I'm still trying to catch up. I can say something new is coming next week, but it's not a product.

Then, in the next few weeks...it's gonna get nuts. I think. I hope. We'll see.

The world isn't just black and white, or in this case silver and black. Looks matter. No one really wants something they find visually unappealing unless of course they have ENCS. Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome, wherein people pretend to like something they pretend to see or hear. Or both. In the case of music reproduction, the trouble with pretending is that when you are alone there's no one to "impress". It is just you, the playback equipment and your music. You either hear the music and enjoy it or fixate on some imaginable "problem". "Straight wire" with gain may be the "goal" but that is one that no one is ever going to score.

Like early Fords I suppose you can have any color Schiit so long as it's silver or black. I don't need multi-coloured Schiit but I may want it. May. I do not need VU Meters but I know I want them. I know...I know. That is NOT going to happen. Ever. So if something else with the VUs catches my eye I may or may not give it a looksee. There is a balance to be met and maintained in business and in life. You can not make every one happy. There is only one way to avoid upsetting folks and that is to not make crap. In your case it is to make good Schiit.

Enough ramblin'. I still like music amplified by my Valhalla 2. The amp looks cool too. That is important because if I had looked at the pictures of the amp online and thought it ugly I would never have bought it, because I really do NOT expect my Schiit to "add" anything "noticeable" to my music. In the case of the Val 2, I just want the amp to make the sound louder or softer. And look, to me, nice while doing so. For me with my Val 2, you have reached that goal.

ORT

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

we are not all Apple with cities overseas dedicated to smelting/forging/machining/reusing scraps/perfecting

If the current growth of Schiit is any indication, you'll get there eventually. Give it a little time… ;p

I am only half kidding. Apple got where it is today for much the same reasons I like and buy Schiit products: Focus on what counts, keep your products simple and fun, differentiate yourself from the big guys, and don't be afraid to be smarter than your customer. [I am specifically talking about the 1978 to 1985 and 1997 to ~2013 Apple here.] There are still tons of people who have either never heard of Schiit, or have heard of Schiit but never actually tried a product. From where I'm standing, there's still pleeeeeeeeeenty of room to grow.

Oh, and while we're speaking of the parallels between Apple and Schiit; I hope you guys have a contingency plan for if you and Mike should ever be forced to (or wanting to) retire. Schiit sounds and looks the way it does because of your and Mike's brains and ears. If those should go away, I have a hard time imagining Schiit to remain above the rest in the field, especially in terms of sound quality.

Hey, don't blame me for bringing this up! It's a serious issue! Especially now that I have finally found my sound! I don't want to be forced to start looking all over…
What? You didn't realize this was just about me? Of course it is all about me! And so is the discussion about brushed vs. powder coated. All my Schiit is brushed, and the thought of having to mix and match? Never!

My personal preference is silver, so whatever solution we come up with has to make me happy. Which bodes well for the availability of brushed product--even if it ends up being more rare, or more expensive.

Music to my ears.

For what it's worth: A 25% markup, regardless of product, would be my line in the sand for switching to something powder coated instead of brushed. Yes, even at Yggy price levels, 25% more would be worth it for me. Although I suspect that a 25% markup at at Magni/Modi price levels is probably not enough to offset the extra cost required to make the brushed casings up to a standard, much less high enough to incentivize enough buyers opt for powder coated instead.

Actually it might be an interesting business to 're-package' Schitt offerings in alternative casing. Imagine how the Yggdrasil might look like in an all-milled aluminum block.

Hard pass. Recent arguments not withstanding, I buy my Schiit (mostly) because of what it sounds like, not what it looks like. And I honestly don't think that there's a market for a 10k+USD Yggy where all that is changed is the enclosure. Because yes, unless you somehow manage to churn them out at really high numbers, that's about what it would end up costing if you want it to be made of an all-milled aluminum block AND make a reasonable profit. And at those price levels, the air gets rather thin. The handful of people around the globe who would be willing to spend that kind of markup purely for looks are already spending their money at places like McIntosh or PSAudio.

Unless, of course, you're using a cryogenically treated audiophile-grade block of aluminum and a mill that's lubricated with the blood of newborn puppies and the tears of fallen angels. That would obviously change things…

 

[macdonjh]

Let me be totally clear: I have never seen an anodized part that was successfully stripped and re-anodized without (a) some very weird color shifts, (b) unacceptable grain, (c) super obvious visible problems--like the panels being actually thinner, or coined at the edges. Never. Nada. None. Doesn't happen. Once an anodized part is damaged, the only viable repair is powder coat. Which I happen to like. Which another principal at another large consumer electronics firm liked--to the point where he wondered why we didn't just do everything black. Which is also used by other companies on products that cost many multiples of ours. So there is that.

And unanodized parts? We never see those. We order parts finished, because anything else is madness, a forest of finger-pointing and recrimination. The problem we're having is that the mill-finish aluminum we use on the smaller products is getting impossible to find (at least the stuff without marks on it--yes, marks on virgin aluminum, yes, the world is not perfect, we are not all Apple with cities overseas dedicated to smelting/forging/machining/reusing scraps/perfecting whatever automated process they use to make MacBooks and such look almost all alike...but not quite, LOL). The non-mill-finish postgrained finish has been problematic since inception, and never quite matches in grain/color/shininess/etc due to the natural variation of clear anodize, the phase of the moon, the ambient temperature, whether or not the anodizer has sacrificed a chicken before starting the process, etc, etc.

So what does this all mean?

Black powder always works. Black always matches. Black can be refinished if we bone it up.

Grain and clear anodize is variable, painful, and subject to the vagaries of mills. And we haven't been able to make it consistent in 11 years.

So it's either gonna be:

a. perpetual backorder for silver, because we can't make as much as we like
b. price rise on silver, so if people still want it, it's worth it to make more
c. a sprayed silver finish that's acceptable, like black

To date, I have seen no silver I'm totally happy with. I have other samples, so we'll see. There have been no decisions made. But you can take black anodize off the table. We're looking at more consistent finishes, not less. And black anodize is worse than clear.

As I said, we'll see what happens. My personal preference is silver, so whatever solution we come up with has to make me happy. Which bodes well for the availability of brushed product--even if it ends up being more rare, or more expensive.

Thanks again, @Jason Stoddard.

If the current growth of Schiit is any indication, you'll get there eventually. Give it a little time… ;p

I was going to reply: "We're buying as fast as we can." You beat me to it.

Perhaps the Mani/ Modi could be squeezed into an i-Phone sized case and the Ragnarok/ Yggdrasil into a Mac Book case? Of course, they'd have the wrong logo...

 

[FLTWS]

Hopefully Schiit will retain the brushed aluminum finish on the full sized top of the line offerings; Yggdrasil, Ragnarok, Freya, and URD (maybe).

 

[US Blues]

I will be quite happy with my new URD in black powder coat finish, thank you.

 

[GumbyDammit223]

As long as Schiit keeps sounding, well like, Schiit, it can be any color under the sun, even Hello Kitty pink. Well, not really Hello Kitty pink. Anything but that works for me!