Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Jun 6, 2021 at 7:47 AM Post #77,836 of 150,528
I was thinking of that as an interim, but alas, Ropieee does not list the Digi Pro as a supported HAT. They have Digi+ Pro and Digi +, but not Digi Pro (no +).

Edit: Wait a minute!! If I am going USB to my DAC, I don't need a HAT, right??

I do want USB to my DAC in my home office, so see a RPi 4 in my very near future! :D
Exactly right, just ensure it’s a 4…
 
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Jun 6, 2021 at 9:58 AM Post #77,837 of 150,528
I’m married to Unison :)

One last (hopefully!) question for my better understanding. In a PC - wireless - streamer chain, my PC is still at the source. How does this solution bypass PC-induced audio issues?
Because the PC is sending data via its network protocol and the streamer is converting that into audio data. Any noise you might hear will be from the streamer and DAC (and amp.)
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 11:23 AM Post #77,838 of 150,528
In a wireless setup one eliminates possible EMI/RFI noise introduced into the cabling when one wires devices together -- especially longer runs. As stated above, in a wireless setting noise can be introduced by the PC before sending the data and audio gear after receiving the data. Wireless prevents noise from being picked up along the transmission path but does nothing before the signal/data/music is sent or received.

**In my wireless music server setup, I have noticed a slight reduction of dynamics and soundstage on low Air Quality Index / high pollen count days, but attribute that more to nose and ears being stuffy. :wink:
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 11:44 AM Post #77,839 of 150,528
In a wireless setup one eliminates possible EMI/RFI noise introduced into the cabling when one wires devices together -- especially longer runs. As stated above, in a wireless setting noise can be introduced by the PC before sending the data and audio gear after receiving the data. Wireless prevents noise from being picked up along the transmission path but does nothing before the signal/data/music is sent or received.

**In my wireless music server setup, I have noticed a slight reduction of dynamics and soundstage on low Air Quality Index / high pollen count days, but attribute that more to nose and ears being stuffy. :wink:
I was strongly advised against wireless for Roon, but despite that I had to do it :wink:
The big issue I have found is that it's hard to guarantee the stream gets the priority it needs with no QOS. I love the Eeros I have (well except for IP allocation and lack of QOS) but have gradually moved all but four endpoints to wired. I'm disappointed (or my smartarse, smug self is) that I couldn't get my preferred results with all wireless, but the need for music without dropout is more important.........

Next the home theater rearrangement upgrade............
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 11:58 AM Post #77,840 of 150,528
I can honestly say that I've not experienced any drop-outs due to my wireless setup. I do have QoS enabled and dedicate the 5GHz band to only audio/video-related component use. 2.4GHz band is dedicated to smartphones, tablets, work/home computers, wireless cameras, etc. My Roon and JRiver music server is wireless only. My Plex video server is wireless only. My TVs' content is streamed via wireless connected Roku and FireTV devices. All use the 5GHz band. I've never had an issue. A classic YMMV scenario.
 
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Jun 6, 2021 at 12:04 PM Post #77,841 of 150,528
I've got three of my five Roon endpoints connected via wifi. No dropout issues. Roku and Apple TV video streaming in the living room is also using a wireless access point and I get no video dropouts either. So I suppose it all depends.
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 1:01 PM Post #77,843 of 150,528
In a wireless setup one eliminates possible EMI/RFI noise introduced into the cabling when one wires devices together -- especially longer runs. As stated above, in a wireless setting noise can be introduced by the PC before sending the data and audio gear after receiving the data. Wireless prevents noise from being picked up along the transmission path but does nothing before the signal/data/music is sent or received.

That's not how I read @Ableza 's post above yours?

His post states that sending data through my computer's network protocol would bypass any noise or jitter introduced by the computer itself at the source, as opposed to hooking it up to my DAC directly via USB.

@Ableza do you stack your Ultrarendu with its power supply or keep them separate? If stacked, I imagine the power supply should sit on top, being the hotter device.

EDIT: Bonus question—would my PC see the streamer as an audio output option the same way Audirvana would (i.e. I could use that for games as well instead of having to use a separate audio chain just for those)?
 
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Jun 6, 2021 at 1:17 PM Post #77,844 of 150,528
That's not how I read @Ableza 's post above yours?

His post states that sending data through my computer's network protocol would bypass any noise or jitter introduced by the computer itself at the source, as opposed to hooking it up to my DAC directly via USB.

@Ableza do you stack your Ultrarendu with its power supply or keep them separate? If stacked, I imagine the power supply should sit on top, being the hotter device.

EDIT: Bonus question—would my PC see the streamer as an audio output option the same way Audirvana would (i.e. I could use that for games as well instead of having to use a separate audio chain just for those)?
You read my comment correctly. I do not stack the Ultradenus on their P/S although I cannot say if it makes any difference ( I opted for the custom linear power supply offered by Sonore rather than the wall wart. Why? because it makes me feel better.) In general the PC will not see the streamer as an audio output option. It is just another network resource. Your software needs to control the streamer as it is now your playback device.
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 1:21 PM Post #77,845 of 150,528
... and the other factor is the level of the noise. Is it actually audible? Noise at -130db may be visible via an analyser, but hearing it? Nope.
It's complicated. Modern digital circuitry is quite robust to variability in the electrical representation of digital signals coming in, meaning that bits (switch transitions 0<->1) are reconstructed correctly even when the incoming electrical signal is overlaid with noise and jitter. However, that electrical variability does not evaporate (conservation of energy and all that) but it must be filtered/dissipated in the DAC circuit before it interacts with the nonlinearities in the DAC -- digital to analog conversion is a highly nonlinear electronic process -- and is potentially aliased into the audible band. One thing to keep in mind is that standard analog measurements are time averages that don't necessarily capture transient features of the reconstructed signal. I've conducted blind A/B tests with different well-regarded digital sources feeding Yggdrasil (and other DACs) and the test subjects were able to distinguish the sources reliably and express their preferences consistently. These not in lab conditions, but the results were consistent.
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 1:40 PM Post #77,846 of 150,528
Hi @Jason Stoddard.

Any Plans of Offering Schiit Lyr 3, Vali 2+ & SYS in Black Colour?

I Plan on Getting Them Soon to Complete My Black Schiit Stack(s) But These Two Would Stick Out as Sore Thumbs.

Also I Have to Ask This- Can We Please Have a Balanced Version [1 Input - 2 or 3 Output] of SYS Preamp in the Bifrost/Jotunheim 2/Lyr3/Asgard 3 Form Factor? Obviously Having a Black Paint Job Would Be Appreciated.

Lastly, Any Chance of HeadphoneZone India Getting Stock of Anything Other Than Modi 3+ DAC & Magni 3+ & Magni Heresy Amplifiers? Yes, I'm Aware of the Situation Regarding New Orders.

Any Update Would Be Appreciated at this Point.

Thanks & Stay Safe.
 
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Jun 6, 2021 at 1:45 PM Post #77,847 of 150,528
That's not how I read @Ableza 's post above yours?
I stand corrected. Maybe so on the PC end. With my very limited knowledge of electrical engineering, I cannot rule out that computer generated EMI/RFI noise can be picked up, encapsulated, and carried along with the music in a wireless data packet. I certainly welcome knowledgeable folks schooling me on why I would be wrong in thinking so. On the receiving end, there is definitely possibilities for noise being introduced after the conversion from digital to analog to occurs, but I think we all know that.
 
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Jun 6, 2021 at 2:00 PM Post #77,848 of 150,528
I considering a new mini Laptop to use with qobuz windows app and musicbee.
What do i need to send 24-192 to my schiit dac via USB?
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 2:06 PM Post #77,849 of 150,528
I stand corrected. Maybe so on the PC end. With my very limited knowledge of electrical engineering, I cannot rule out that computer generated EMI/RFI noise can be picked up, encapsulated, and carried along with the music in a wireless data packet. I certainly welcome knowledgeable folks schooling me on why I would be wrong in thinking so. On the receiving end, there is definitely possibilities for noise being introduced after the conversion from digital to analog to occurs, but I think we all know that.
When you send a file to your printer, does it get corrupted by noise from your PC? Or a photo from your PC to your phone, does it get crapped up with noise from the PC? Why would audio files being sent as network data to another computer (the streamer)? It is the output device - USB S/PDIF - connected to your DAC where digital noise CAN BE problematic for audio. And note I say "can be" not IS. Audiophiles make much more out of "possible problems" than exist in reality.
 
Jun 6, 2021 at 2:18 PM Post #77,850 of 150,528
All very good points. I get the same results printing via wired Ethernet or USB.

So you're implying that the JCat and Matrix Element H USB cards and Ethernet cards (and others of their ilk) are snake oil? :smirk:

 
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