[davidsh]

 

  I thought the use of 32 bits was in digital volume controls, where the manufacturer could say that there is no audible degradation of the sound quality when using one, even down to -80dB.

Even better, use a digitally controlled analog volume control. No issues with rounding or quantization.

Then there's the (potential) issue with low level imbalance

 

[Ableza]

When I see comments like those above I think, "OK all you engineers, if you can do better then do so."

 

[AManAnd88Keys]

  When I see comments like those above I think, "OK all you engineers, if you can do better then do so."

It depends on your definition of "better": if money is no object, then there are many people who could build mind-blowing gear. The challenge is to build great stuff at a price point that is reasonable to the customer and still allows you to succesfully run a business.

 

[JohnnyCanuck]

  When I see comments like those above I think, "OK all you engineers, if you can do better then do so."

 
But isn't that what Schiit is doing?

 

[StanD]

  Then there's the (potential) issue with low level imbalance

Buy better quality parts or as they say, don't buy schiit. But do buy Schiit.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

  Even better, use a digitally controlled analog volume control. No issues with rounding or quantization.

Even better, a relay-switched stepped attenuator.
 
Seriously, though, we like to see volume control in the analog domain, no matter how many bits of computation you might be able to throw at it on the digital side.
 
Of course, this is our opinion, but, from best to worst:
 
Relay-switched stepped attenuator (like Ragnarok): Pros: only resistors and relay contacts in the signal path. Essentially perfect matching with any sane resistor (1% or better tolerance), perfect control over linear steps. Cons: needs software to implement, somewhat costly (but only about 2x the cost of an Alps RK27114 balanced potentiometer.
 
Big potentiometer. Big pots, like the Alps 27mm stuff and the Alpha 24mm stuff, are very good, and offer both good channel matching and a nice, gradual audio taper. Cons: not perfect matching, too large for some equipment, balanced versions are special-order/big order stuff.
 
Small potentiometer. Some of these are actually quite good, like the Alps 9mm stuff, which offers shockingly good channel matching down to -60dB or so (many -70dB is still within 0.5dB). Cons: the audio taper is much worse--it has very aggressive volume ramp when you first start turning it--and many other small pots from other manufacturers are even worse.
 
So why aren't these included?
 
Stepped attenuator (knob style, like a pot). Perfect matching, yes, but frequently too few steps, even with switchable gain. We like continuous controls.
 
Analog volume IC. Perfect matching, yes, but you're usually back to microprocessor control, and (in our opinion), even the expensive ones are not as transparent as a good pot. And the expensive ones ain't cheap. And they need good, higher-voltage power supplies, as high as they'll take.
 
Of course, IMO, YMMV, this is just how the crazy schiits see it, etc.

 

[StanD]

 
Even better, a relay-switched stepped attenuator.
 
Seriously, though, we like to see volume control in the analog domain, no matter how many bits of computation you might be able to throw at it on the digital side.
 
Of course, this is our opinion, but, from best to worst:
 
Relay-switched stepped attenuator (like Ragnarok): Pros: only resistors and relay contacts in the signal path. Essentially perfect matching with any sane resistor (1% or better tolerance), perfect control over linear steps. Cons: needs software to implement, somewhat costly (but only about 2x the cost of an Alps RK27114 balanced potentiometer.
 
Big potentiometer. Big pots, like the Alps 27mm stuff and the Alpha 24mm stuff, are very good, and offer both good channel matching and a nice, gradual audio taper. Cons: not perfect matching, too large for some equipment, balanced versions are special-order/big order stuff.
 
Small potentiometer. Some of these are actually quite good, like the Alps 9mm stuff, which offers shockingly good channel matching down to -60dB or so (many -70dB is still within 0.5dB). Cons: the audio taper is much worse--it has very aggressive volume ramp when you first start turning it--and many other small pots from other manufacturers are even worse.
 
So why aren't these included?
 
Stepped attenuator (knob style, like a pot). Perfect matching, yes, but frequently too few steps, even with switchable gain. We like continuous controls.
 
Analog volume IC. Perfect matching, yes, but you're usually back to microprocessor control, and (in our opinion), even the expensive ones are not as transparent as a good pot. And the expensive ones ain't cheap. And they need good, higher-voltage power supplies, as high as they'll take.
 
Of course, IMO, YMMV, this is just how the crazy schiits see it, etc.

Even with scaling at a higher digital precision, eventually one will have to scale down to the precision of one's DAC and round to the nearest bit. Wouldn't that introduce a possible 1/2 bit quantizing error. Oops, didn't at first thought realize the DAC in my Bifrost is 32 bit. I guess that would mean the computed volume control would have to be in the Bifrost, not my Asgard 2. Does that mean no more volume controls on amps? I'm not ready for that.

 

[deuter]

Even better, a relay-switched stepped attenuator.

Seriously, though, we like to see volume control in the analog domain, no matter how many bits of computation you might be able to throw at it on the digital side.

Of course, this is our opinion, but, from best to worst:

Relay-switched stepped attenuator (like Ragnarok): Pros: only resistors and relay contacts in the signal path. Essentially perfect matching with any sane resistor (1% or better tolerance), perfect control over linear steps. Cons: needs software to implement, somewhat costly (but only about 2x the cost of an Alps RK27114 balanced potentiometer.

Big potentiometer. Big pots, like the Alps 27mm stuff and the Alpha 24mm stuff, are very good, and offer both good channel matching and a nice, gradual audio taper. Cons: not perfect matching, too large for some equipment, balanced versions are special-order/big order stuff.

Small potentiometer. Some of these are actually quite good, like the Alps 9mm stuff, which offers shockingly good channel matching down to -60dB or so (many -70dB is still within 0.5dB). Cons: the audio taper is much worse--it has very aggressive volume ramp when you first start turning it--and many other small pots from other manufacturers are even worse.

So why aren't these included?

Stepped attenuator (knob style, like a pot). Perfect matching, yes, but frequently too few steps, even with switchable gain. We like continuous controls.

Analog volume IC. Perfect matching, yes, but you're usually back to microprocessor control, and (in our opinion), even the expensive ones are not as transparent as a good pot. And the expensive ones ain't cheap. And they need good, higher-voltage power supplies, as high as they'll take.

Of course, IMO, YMMV, this is just how the crazy schiits see it, etc.

Any news on when Yggdrasil will be available ?

 

[Maxvla]

Q1 2015

 

[cizx]

Q1 2015

Hopefully that date estimate holds.

 

[valiant66]

 
Even better, a relay-switched stepped attenuator.
 
Seriously, though, we like to see volume control in the analog domain, no matter how many bits of computation you might be able to throw at it on the digital side.
 
--snip--

Have you had any experience with optocouplers like the Lightspeed? That seems like a pretty cool way to do volume control with great potential for accuracy. I'm surprised it hasn't made its way into more products...

 

[Jason Stoddard]

 
Have you had any experience with optocouplers like the Lightspeed? That seems like a pretty cool way to do volume control with great potential for accuracy. I'm surprised it hasn't made its way into more products...

No. I personally wouldn't use them at all--they are nonlinear, most require matching, the performance changes over time, and they introduce quite significant distortion. 

 

[StanD]

 
No. I personally wouldn't use them at all--they are nonlinear, most require matching, the performance changes over time, and they introduce quite significant distortion. 

I can't believe anyone would use that in a quality audio product. Isn't that a CDS photo resistor? I remember some nasty volume pedals for electric musical instruments that used these, yuck, they were bad.

 

[tonykaz]

Hello Mr. Jason Stoddard ,
 
  RMAF 2014 still had a smattering of Record Players in the $6,000 Rooms , one Room had an Antelope .   
  If what Baldr is suggesting is in fact true ; RMAF 2015 $6,000 Rooms will feature his Creation ( I'm thinking ) .
   What else is there ? , a few R2Rs with $10,000+ price points , from Outfits that mainly work in the ProAudio field and a few small guys from Global locations that probably don't have the sales to finance a presence in any of the Major USA Shows , traveling to the States is pricy for a small French Company making nice stuff or any other small guy having a hard time carving out a sliver of the Consumer Pie , much less trying to get shelf space at Sweatwater .      
   Jude's little local club events are already dominated by Schiit Gear , these guys will cue-up to be the first to own Mike's greatest work yet .  
  You're publishing the Schiit Story here where all the Computer Audiophiles hang-out kinda makes you a living Legend , like having Bill Johnson at ARC ( may he rest in peace ) having conversations with all those early SP3 owners and potential buyers .  
  I've heard 16-44.1 thru a Superb DAC ( MSB ) , it's astonishingly good , if your Yggy comes close it will become a benchmark ( like the ARC SP3 was ) and every gear manufacturer will want it in their Front End for every Demo Room at every Show ( saying proudly that their gear can make even basic Red Book CDs sound outstanding ) .  
 In a sense , our Computers are now our Record Players , the DACs are the Phono Cartridge transducers that make the music , after the DAC everything is Analog ( which is also getting better every day ) .   We are in a better place today than we've ever been in Music Reproduction's History , it's an exciting time ! 
  You may have a one year jump on everyone and it may be enough to stay ahead , Sony is still wandering all over the map , Apple is working on far more important things , anyone digital-capable is working for a Defense Contractor or NSA or the like .  I'm happy you brought-in Old Mike and gave him another shot , he's probably a sweet old geezer .
  Thank you ,
  Tony in Michigan 

 

[johnjen]

  Hello Mr. Jason Stoddard ,
 
 snipper-doodles
 
 I'm happy you brought-in Old Mike and gave him another shot , he's probably a sweet old geezer .
  Thank you ,
  Tony in Michigan 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha 
 
But rather I think of MM as a curmudgeon, but one who still has at least partial control of his rapier wit.  
You can tell because his writings are polished enough so as to not miss a veritable plethora of invective.  

 
JJ