Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Sep 17, 2014 at 9:30 PM Post #2,731 of 151,195
Quick question for anyone who might be able to help.  Does anyone know if the Schiit products sold on Amazon are still factory seconds?  I guess it would make sense to sell them there where they can make up for the loss, but it'd be nice if they were labeled as such, and I see no mention of it.
 
Sep 17, 2014 at 9:30 PM Post #2,732 of 151,195
  Using an ADC is like using a scanner, it's the best archiving device and using a really high quality ADC is like using a drum scanner instead of a CCD scanner.

 
Ooh! Somebody else that wants a high-quality affordable ADC! This is not me posting under another name! I promise - he's been around longer than I have. 
 
That being said, I have to play devil's advocate:
 
Obviously you haven't, as vinyl is by far the fastest growing segment in the music industry, double digit figures which makes other media pale with envy (look it up). 

 
According to IFPI "Physical formats account for more than half (51.5 per cent) of all global revenues" and "While vinyl sales account for only a small fraction of the overall industry revenues, they have seen an increase in recent years in some key markets. In the US, vinyl sales increased by 32 per cent in 2013" (http://www.ifpi.org/facts-and-stats.php)
 
But that's still an awfully small amount of records - I tried finding actual unit numbers, but they're hard to come by. In the UK they sold 780,000 LPs in 2013 (a 101% increase over 2012): compare that to the billions of CDs and even more digital downloads. We're in sub-fractions of a percent territory. So I see why Mike is dubious.
 
 
Play where the puck will be as Jobs said

 
As a Canadian I can't let this slide. That was the original Great One, Wayne Gretzky: "A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be." A great Canadian, even if we did sell him to LA.
 
 
A true audiophile probably should consider good analog front ends, pity to miss out considering they don't cost much to sound great (add a tuner if you're lucky to live in a country that has good FM).

 
Well, that's a bit didactic, declaring that only audiophiles with analog sources are "true audiophiles" - but that being said, I still have warm memories of my Magnum Dynalab FT-11. Those swinging needles were awesome! A great Canadian product to go along with my Oracle Delphi, another great Canadian product. But I guess I'm not a true audiophile any more since it's been years since I've dropped the needle on anything, and I only listen to FM in my car nowadays.
 
And finally...
 
 
By the way, Pioneer just launched the successor to the SL1200 (which Panasonics/Technics foolishly dropped a couple years ago). Pioneer is also the leader in the consumer DJ world so in terms of teenage wannabe DJs, you can imagine the size of *that* market.

 
I wouldn't be crowing about that so much: Pioneer is selling off its DJ division.
 
That's the problem with playing devil's advocate - it gets confusing. I would like to see Schiit strongly consider building a decent affordable ADC, but by the same token I don't want it to be a dinosaur for them (the image Jason evoked when writing about the warehouse flood of 'shelves of unsold Lokis' kind of haunts me).
 
Maybe they could roll an ADC into a DAC product? I would suggest a combo device, but that would surely cannibalize their existing lineup. That being said, it's a very short leap from a Bifrost to an amp with a replaceable DAC board or a DAC with a replaceable analog board... so why not throw in a replaceable ADC while they're at it!
 
I can hope...
 
Sep 17, 2014 at 10:21 PM Post #2,733 of 151,195
Another great chapter! The Vali was my second purchase from Schiit after the Magni/Modi combo and I really like it. The sound from Vali (at least to my ears) depends quite a bit on the headphone. I have a 25-year old Beyerdynamic DT990 and it is phenomenal with the Vali. The T1? Less so. My observation: Tubes don't sound good with everything, but when they sound good they sound really good.
 
 
Sep 17, 2014 at 10:31 PM Post #2,734 of 151,195
As someone who grew up with analog and didn't hear anything digital until my rio mp3 player from forever ago, i can't stand analog sources. Even more so i can't stand digital copies of analog sources.
 
Sep 17, 2014 at 10:36 PM Post #2,735 of 151,195
ADC market is, IMO, far more crowded than hi-fi market.
 
There are TONS of pro-audio equipment that are capable of recording sound up to 24/96. Quality itself is questionable, but there are just too many companies making same product.
 
The trend, these days, is putting ADC right into the microphone itself, hence USB microphones have been flooding the market for a while.
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 12:20 AM Post #2,736 of 151,195
  Quick question for anyone who might be able to help.  Does anyone know if the Schiit products sold on Amazon are still factory seconds?  I guess it would make sense to sell them there where they can make up for the loss, but it'd be nice if they were labeled as such, and I see no mention of it.


Kuhchuk,
 
All of our Amazon fulfilled and most of our merchant fulfilled stock is new a-stock product.  The only exception being the listings for b-stock product.   We do offer some b-stock on Amazon as it becomes available.  The b-stock is clearly labeled as b-stock in the title of the Amazon listing. 
 
I just looked at our Amazon listings.  It looks like I need to check the b-stock shelf and update my inventory, there isn't much on there at the moment.  When I list b-stock is tends to disappear very quickly.  A few weeks ago I put 11 Asgard 2 B-stocks up for sale on a Friday afternoon and they were sold out by Monday.  
 
Last Christmas we started working with Amazon fulfillment and it is by far our fastest growing sales platform.  Amazon fulfillment is a program where we ship our products to Amazon's warehouses.  Amazon handles ordering, payments, shipping, and returns in exchange for a percentage of the sale.  We still handle support and warranty services.  Overall it has worked well for us.  We usually end up sending them a few pallets of product each week.  Number one rule for working with Amazon as a merchant is to remember that you are swimming in their pool and they make the rules.
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 2:57 AM Post #2,737 of 151,195
I would just like to say that I really love this story, as well as all the small additions in between.
Its amazing how much better I feel about a company that is this honest and transparent. Honesty is unfortunately in short demand among big companies, not to mention governments.
It really makes the honest ones stand out though, which is good.
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 4:13 AM Post #2,738 of 151,195
Originally Posted by valiant66 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
Ooh! Somebody else that wants a high-quality affordable ADC! This is not me posting under another name! I promise - he's been around longer than I have. 
 
That being said, I have to play devil's advocate:
 
According to IFPI "Physical formats account for more than half (51.5 per cent) of all global revenues" and "While vinyl sales account for only a small fraction of the overall industry revenues, they have seen an increase in recent years in some key markets. In the US, vinyl sales increased by 32 per cent in 2013" (http://www.ifpi.org/facts-and-stats.php)
 
But that's still an awfully small amount of records - I tried finding actual unit numbers, but they're hard to come by. In the UK they sold 780,000 LPs in 2013 (a 101% increase over 2012): compare that to the billions of CDs and even more digital downloads. We're in sub-fractions of a percent territory.

It is now, but don't forget that the music industry loves a medium you can sell at a premium and that you can't instantly share and propagate. Also, I'm talking revenue shares, not number of people.
 
Originally Posted by twinkle   
Play where the puck will be as Jobs said

 
As a Canadian I can't let this slide. That was the original Great One, Wayne Gretzky: "A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be." A great Canadian, even if we did sell him to LA.

It's a puck, you can let it slide
biggrin.gif

Thanks for the info, but the point is not who said it first, it's using it as useful analogy for an entirely different area, such as business.
 
 Well, that's a bit didactic,

I never considered myself much of a teacher, but thank you
smily_headphones1.gif

 
Quote:
Well, that's a bit didactic, declaring that only audiophiles with analog sources are "true audiophiles" -

Nope, that's not what I said. I said you may be missing out if you don't consider a good analog front-end.
You can be a true audiophile who found peace with the current limitations of digital, just like you can with the current limitations of analog.
 
And finally... I wouldn't be crowing about that so much: Pioneer is selling off its DJ division.

crowing? isn't that what crows do?
So the DJ division is changing hands, going to private equity, maybe someday going public, who cares? I'm sure the buyer is only interested in if it's profitable.
 
That's the problem with playing devil's advocate - it gets confusing. I would like to see Schiit strongly consider building a decent affordable ADC, but by the same token I don't want it to be a dinosaur for them (the image Jason evoked when writing about the warehouse flood of 'shelves of unsold Lokis' kind of haunts me).

It's confusing if you bunch two unrelated questions together. Loki is a "new format" problem, arguably fraught with risk. ADCs are an existing hardware segment. I would be more worried about too much competition from the studio equipment manufacturers. ADC/DAC combos exist, but none with a great performance/price ratio.
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 4:15 AM Post #2,739 of 151,195

Quote:
   
Please enumerate exactly what else we could have done (short of self-immolation) in response to the Asgard Incident?
 
I am honestly curious.


 
Sep 18, 2014 at 4:16 AM Post #2,740 of 151,195
Originally Posted by wnmnkh /img/forum/go_quote.gif
ADC market is, IMO, far more crowded than hi-fi market.
There are TONS of pro-audio equipment that are capable of recording sound up to 24/96. Quality itself is questionable, but there are just too many companies making same product.
 
The trend, these days, is putting ADC right into the microphone itself, hence USB microphones have been flooding the market for a while.

<<Shudders>>
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 6:57 AM Post #2,741 of 151,195
Being a part of the pro-audio community, I recently (not a week ago) purchased an ADC for Ragnarok level money for two channels.
By today's standards, four samples per cycle (96KHz) just doesn't cut it for recordings and this ADC is already 4 years past production

The pro audio market is probably a really hard market to penetrate, but there is nobody doing remotely close to what Schiit does in the audiophile market.
The options (good ones) are really limited.

A Schiit quality balanced AD/DA converter is something I'd pay for. There's already more than one half there with Gungnir. If you could stuff the reverse process in there too....
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 7:28 AM Post #2,742 of 151,195
 
Kuhchuk,
 
All of our Amazon fulfilled and most of our merchant fulfilled stock is new a-stock product.  The only exception being the listings for b-stock product.   We do offer some b-stock on Amazon as it becomes available.  The b-stock is clearly labeled as b-stock in the title of the Amazon listing. 
 
I just looked at our Amazon listings.  It looks like I need to check the b-stock shelf and update my inventory, there isn't much on there at the moment.  When I list b-stock is tends to disappear very quickly.  A few weeks ago I put 11 Asgard 2 B-stocks up for sale on a Friday afternoon and they were sold out by Monday.  
 
Last Christmas we started working with Amazon fulfillment and it is by far our fastest growing sales platform.  Amazon fulfillment is a program where we ship our products to Amazon's warehouses.  Amazon handles ordering, payments, shipping, and returns in exchange for a percentage of the sale.  We still handle support and warranty services.  Overall it has worked well for us.  We usually end up sending them a few pallets of product each week.  Number one rule for working with Amazon as a merchant is to remember that you are swimming in their pool and they make the rules.


Thanks for the quick reply.  Just wanted to make sure I knew for sure what I'd be getting if I ordered from Amazon.
 
Sep 18, 2014 at 8:41 AM Post #2,743 of 151,195
 
Thanks for the quick reply.  Just wanted to make sure I knew for sure what I'd be getting if I ordered from Amazon.

 
Keep in mind that many of the Schiit products on Amazon are priced around $10 higher than ordering directly from Schiit. I have a Prime membership so I don't pay shipping on top of that, but most of the products I've ordered direct cost less than $10 to ship. So if you have Amazon Prime and order "A" stock Schiit gear, the only real benefit is that you may receive the package a couple of days sooner if you live in the middle or East Coast of the US.
 

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