[AudioBear]

@Jason Stoddard @Baldr @Alex Martin

From my perspective, I would suggest the following for the future to come:

1) DAC line:

• Kill all DS variants except Modi. Focus on bringing the best from current Modi DS (or even Bifrost DS) variants together into the future version of Modi DS that would cost 99USD. (Drop an interface or make some other minor sacrifices to make the price happen.) This will be your extreme/full-on value product, clearly differing from the higher MB-only offerings that would be a bit more about actual Schiit design philosophy, about bringing something unique and unforseen to the market.
• Replace Modi MB and Bifrost MB with future version of Bifrost MB, combining strong points of both together. (Reasonable compromise expected, cost to be closer to 249USD than 599USD.)
• Think about necessity to have both Gungnir MB and Ygdrassil. Maybe Ygdrassil alone would suffice as long as you really make sure Bifrost MB is competitive in sub 1500USD market? (Differences among DACs are not that large anyways.)

That's it - one pure-value low cost DS DAC (Modi), one HQ versatile yet affordable MB DAC (Bifrost) and one ultrahighend cost-no-object MB DAC (Yggdrasil).

2) HEADAMP line:

• Leave out amp/DAC combos out of the equation (maybe except Fulla if it sells really well for 99USD). You already have DACs covered more then enough.
• Definitely do not keep all the current amps (e.g. kill Lyr 2, Asgard 2 and maybe some others as well - see suggestions for the new line-up below).
• Optimize and migrate fully from Circlotron to Pivot Point.
• Simplify while keeping the SS/Tube diversity:
  • • Value tier:
      • Magni (SS) / Vali (Tube)
    • HQ tier:
      1. Jotunheim (SS) / Valhalla (Tube), or
      2. Mjolnir (SS/Tube)
    • TOTL tier:
      1. Ragnarok (SS) / ? (Tube), or
      2. Ragnarok (SS/Tube)
  • Notes to the above:
    • Do not discard OTL or SET OTC topologies if feasible.
    • There are options how to accomplish SS/Tube dual design other than using LISST. (e.g. see iFi Pro iCan)

3) 2-channel line:

• Looks good so far, keep up the good work.

4) The rest:

• As long as the other products are clearly separated from the 'mainstream' categories listed above, it is probably just fine to keep experimenting and see what works and what not.

Killing Gungnir MB would be a big mistake as it would leave too big a hole in the line at a very important price point. Moreover, Gungnir is not just a baby Yggy -- has its own sound. I don't know if it's still the case but Jason said a while back Gumby was in his personal system.

 

[JohnnyCanuck]

Awesome chapter. What is desperately needed imo is not a record player but a really nice phono pre. If you built one in the $500ish range with an emphasis toward HOMC I think you would have a real winner. HOMC is my fav. and there does not seem to be any focus on it in the phono pre world.

And what is HOMC?

JC

edit: High Output Moving Coil?

 

[Pandahead]

Jason,

Yggy is finally getting the "mainstream" respect and attention it deserves. HiFi enthusiasts will take note, and Vidar completes the system. Sure you need to sell a ton of Magni 3's, that's laying the foundation for enthusiasts to broaden their interests.

I can't imagine not having my Lokis. I'm not alone.

Again, part of your aging customer base (more the average guy than a multimillionaire I would venture) will buy higher end products from Schiit, because of your fine reputation, just not in Magni numbers. HiFi is a life time fun hobby for many of us, if the products are there for that segment surely you will sell them.

 

[Blue Warper]

2017, Chapter 16:
What We Did Wrong

Another nice and valuable chapter, thanks, Jason! And thanks for your refreshing and honest attitude too.
Here are just some thoughts, for what they're worth.

About line simplification. Some time ago I considered bringing this issue to your attention, but I never went ahead, because I felt it could be seen somehow as uncalled for. I even started writing a draft, which I never finished, though. Then, when Magni 3 was announced, I knew you had already taken the matter into consideration and was well aware of it.
This is especially true where a product comes in many variants, as in the case of the Uber or Multibit versions (or - for example - back at that time, Modi and Modi optical). So, if I'm allowed to share my personal opinion, I find the offer of a Gungnir D/S mostly unneeded at this point. You and Mike have already made it clear that multibit is the way to go and, in any case, it is your upper line. So it would make sense, I think, to only offer D/S technology on your cheaper DACs.

As for (headphone) amps, I'm a happy owner of an Asgard 2, but, while I really love it, I can understand why most people may consider other options. So I fear Asgard 2 might be one of the products soon to be got rid of...
I also wonder whether an undoubtedly (and reportedly) excellent-performing Ragnarok really keeps making sense right now in its current state, in a world (and line) where a Saga/Freya provide an excellent pre-amp solution and one or two (or even more) Vidar(s) provide more power output for driving even difficult speakers. Granted, Ragnarok has that very unique feature of being able to drive a wide range of transducers, from very sensitive IEMs to headphones to speakers, thanks to its very clever multiple gain system.
But how many people will look to Ragnarok for speaker-only systems now that they're offered an even cheaper alternative in, say, a Freya+Vidar combo? So would making a headphone-only Ragnarok be a workable idea?
I do appreciate your ability to offer different amp topologies, each one ideally represented by its own model, so I'd personally like to see as many models as possible, as long as their sales go well. Perhaps a key to simplification would be to combine more distinct features now to be found in multiple products (such as a class A amplification, class AB, tube OTL amp, hybrid tube/solid state, all balanced tube amp, flexible balanced solid state IEMs/headphones/speaker amp) into a smaller set of products. What about a balanced class A amp, for example? Or a headphone-only Ragnarok? Or an OTL Mjolnir? (I apologize if I said something technically wrong or simply impossibile to do or that's just nonsense).

As for the Loki mini, maybe one of the reasons why sales aren't getting even stronger (though you said you're quite fine with them) is that some people (myself included) are waiting for a Loki balanced, although Loki mini seems to sound so ridiculously good in its current implementation and price that they should be perfectly fine with it, should the balanced version never got released.

And finally some thoughts about your website. In the product list on the "Products" page, I think you should actually specify "Multibit" or "MB" products or variants: that could be done either by differentiating between the two variants (where applicable), and splitting them into two different pages (so, for example, Modi | Modi 2 | Bifrost 4490 || Modi Multibit | Bifrost Multibit | Gungnir (Multibit) | Yggdrasil); or by specifying both variants at a time (for example: "Bifrost 4490/Bifrost MB : $399/$599"). Oh, and what about a single Modi Uber for $149 instead of a Modi 2 @ $99 and a Modi 2 Uber @ $149?
And Jil? Is "Accessories" the section where it should really belong?

These are very basic contributions (if at all), so please take them for what they are. You definitely know your business. I only felt entitled to let you know what I think because of your open and friendly attitude toward us. If we can give something back, even just a useful suggestion, it would be a way to say thanks for all your work and commitment to your customers.

Now waiting for that 2018!

 

[Snowpuppy77]

Another nice and valuable chapter, thanks, Jason! And thanks for your refreshing and honest attitude too.
Here are just some thoughts, for what they're worth.

About line simplification. Some time ago I considered bringing this issue to your attention, but I never went ahead, because I felt it could be seen somehow as uncalled for. I even started writing a draft, which I never finished, though. Then, when Magni 3 was announced, I knew you had already taken the matter into consideration and was well aware of it.
This is especially true where a product comes in many variants, as in the case of the Uber or Multibit versions (or - for example - back at that time, Modi and Modi optical). So, if I'm allowed to share my personal opinion, I find the offer of a Gungnir D/S mostly unneeded at this point. You and Mike have already made it clear that multibit is the way to go and, in any case, it is your upper line. So it would make sense, I think, to only offer D/S technology on your cheaper DACs.

As for (headphone) amps, I'm a happy owner of an Asgard 2, but, while I really love it, I can understand why most people may consider other options. So I fear Asgard 2 might be one of the products soon to be got rid of...
I also wonder whether an undoubtedly (and reportedly) excellent-performing Ragnarok really keeps making sense right now in its current state, in a world (and line) where a Saga/Freya provide an excellent pre-amp solution and one or two (or even more) Vidar(s) provide more power output for driving even difficult speakers. Granted, Ragnarok has that very unique feature of being able to drive a wide range of transducers, from very sensitive IEMs to headphones to speakers, thanks to its very clever multiple gain system.
But how many people will look to Ragnarok for speaker-only systems now that they're offered an even cheaper alternative in, say, a Freya+Vidar combo? So would making a headphone-only Ragnarok be a workable idea?
I do appreciate your ability to offer different amp topologies, each one ideally represented by its own model, so I'd personally like to see as many models as possible, as long as their sales go well. Perhaps a key to simplification would be to combine more distinct features now to be found in multiple products (such as a class A amplification, class AB, tube OTL amp, hybrid tube/solid state, all balanced tube amp, flexible balanced solid state IEMs/headphones/speaker amp) into a smaller set of products. What about a balanced class A amp, for example? Or a headphone-only Ragnarok? Or an OTL Mjolnir? (I apologize if I said something technically wrong or simply impossibile to do or that's just nonsense).

As for the Loki mini, maybe one of the reasons why sales aren't getting even stronger (though you said you're quite fine with them) is that some people (myself included) are waiting for a Loki balanced, although Loki mini seems to sound so ridiculously good in its current implementation and price that they should be perfectly fine with it, should the balanced version never got released.

And finally some thoughts about your website. In the product list on the "Products" page, I think you should actually specify "Multibit" or "MB" products or variants: that could be done either by differentiating between the two variants (where applicable), and splitting them into two different pages (so, for example, Modi | Modi 2 | Bifrost 4490 || Modi Multibit | Bifrost Multibit | Gungnir (Multibit) | Yggdrasil); or by specifying both variants at a time (for example: "Bifrost 4490/Bifrost MB : $399/$599"). Oh, and what about a single Modi Uber for $149 instead of a Modi 2 @ $99 and a Modi 2 Uber @ $149?
And Jil? Is "Accessories" the section where it should really belong?

These are very basic contributions (if at all), so please take them for what they are. You definitely know your business. I only felt entitled to let you know what I think because of your open and friendly attitude toward us. If we can give something back, even just a useful suggestion, it would be a way to say thanks for all your work and commitment to your customers.

Now waiting for that 2018!

The only change the Ragnarok needs is perhaps adding a remote and letting us send ours in for an upgrade. Integrated amps are more compact than separates and I doubt the Vidar and Freya sounds better on any speaker that the Ragnarok properly drives. I respectfully disagree on a Ragnarok version that is not a speaker amp but headphone amp only. On high gain it will deliver full power into a pair of headphones which is a real advantage as Jude covers here:

https://www.head-fi.org/articles/head-fi-buying-guide-desktop-amps-dacs-3.19676/

And with that much power on tap being useful for certain headphones there also just happens to be plenty of power for a wide variety of speakers. The Ragnarok works brilliantly for both headphones and speakers. It is one of the best amps out there for either category for its power rating. And a fine DAC like the Yggy can be used for both speakers and headphones. If you use a Yggy or a Gumby with a Freya how do you switch to using it with a headphone amp? Switching interconnects is a PITA but can be done. A switch box can be used but less than optimal for sound quality. It is hard to tell from an audio show but at RMAF 2017 I got the feeling that the Freya and Vidars were not a open sounding as my Ragnarok. I could be wrong on this but the Vidar just does not seem to be the same caliber as the Ragnarok. The Vidar may have more quantity but perhaps the Ragnarok has better quality.

 

[Ableza]

My advice is don’t listen to anyone’s advice, including mine. Keep doing what you do. It’s why I’m a fanboy.

 

[InsanityOne]

After reading through the comments following the most recent chapter, I see a lot of people requesting a balanced version of the Loki. I just wanted to chime in an say that I am also in that boat. I really want to buy a Loki to use in my system, but my desire to not give up running balanced is greater than my desire to have an EQ. At this point the only way to get a balanced EQ is to go out and buy a professional variant costing thousands, which I don't really think any of us want to do. So, in my opinion, if the next iteration of the Loki was to support balanced operation, and cost a bit more, I think that there would be a space in the market for that.

 

[johnjen]

Speaking of a wish list for 'improvements' etc.

Here's my list of upgrades to The Rok amp (and others as applicable)
– 2) 4 pin headphone output connectors, at least
– Drop the single ended output entirely, along with the summer circuits (a waste of $$ and space)
– Remote (I don't need it, but this is your flagship amp)
– Provide visual feedback for which outputs are active (for late night, lights out, HP listening confirmation)
– Use larger graphic symbols with greater contrast so they can be read from a greater distance (this also applies to the Jggy and even the Mojo/Gungnir series)
– Provide rear panel access to the mains fuse for all upgrades (for the obvious reasons)

Also, add a reference/archive section to the web site for descriptions, specs, manuals etc for the old discontinued gear.

Just a few thoughts to cogitate.

JJ

 

[Tom Ato]

...

Also, add a reference/archive section to the web site for descriptions, specs, manuals etc for the old discontinued gear.

JJ

I definitely agree with this. I have often been curious about the specs and descriptions of the older first generation products, or other discontinued items (even if it means dredging up info about a DSD Loki!). If I were to look at the page now and see, for example, "Magni 3", my first thought might be to ask why it is the third one? What happened to the first two? Should I wait for Magni 4 if they keep making new ones? Right now, the FAQ page mentions the previous versions and gives some info about the differences, but most of the FAQ's on that page seem to imply the user has knowledge or experience with the previous Magni's, which--especially at that price point--seems unlikely.

By having an archive or maybe a product history page (like a timeline, including current products) you could showcase all the work you have done, the importance of each product to your company, what made it unique, etc.

 

[FLTWS]

Speaking of a wish list for 'improvements' etc.

Here's my list of upgrades to The Rok amp (and others as applicable)
– 2) 4 pin headphone output connectors, at least
– Drop the single ended output entirely, along with the summer circuits (a waste of $$ and space)
– Remote (I don't need it, but this is your flagship amp)
– Provide visual feedback for which outputs are active (for late night, lights out, HP listening confirmation)
– Use larger graphic symbols with greater contrast so they can be read from a greater distance (this also applies to the Jggy and even the Mojo/Gungnir series)
– Provide rear panel access to the mains fuse for all upgrades (for the obvious reasons)

Also, add a reference/archive section to the web site for descriptions, specs, manuals etc for the old discontinued gear.

Just a few thoughts to cogitate.

JJ

I'd like more than 64 steps in that attenuator for making finer adjustments.

 

[purehifi192]

The primary reason I haven't yet bought a Loki comes down to my inability to properly understand what needs to be corrected in my room. Sure I know I can play with the knobs to produce a more desired sound, but one of the main reasons the Loki was introduced and is being used is to correct a room's acoustics, correct? My issue is how do I know what to correct when I don't know what's wrong - or reference if you will - in the first place?

At least for me, there's a level of knowledge I don't have to fully leverage what the Loki can offer.

 

[Whazzzup]

what i see is that this loyalty of customer for whatever reason is in itself marketing gold. I look at this market as who provides the technical expertise to provide the transparent sound i prefer. I would not consider buying my server, dac, amp, cables or headphones from one manufacturer. Id seek who i thought was best in each component category for my tastes and i care less where its made. Im not into add ons and boxes either. So in the end having so many products that are or are not going forward yet i sense the customer base cares about, like loki or whatever, is in itself a testament to successful marketing...just an observer

 

[Whazzzup]

It seems that there are several manufacturers trying to build an eco system, along the way it creates problems, and ultimately can you do it all well. someone referred to apple as a case of a limited number of products that don't do it all can be successful.

 

[Ableza]

The primary reason I haven't yet bought a Loki comes down to my inability to properly understand what needs to be corrected in my room. Sure I know I can play with the knobs to produce a more desired sound, but one of the main reasons the Loki was introduced and is being used is to correct a room's acoustics, correct? My issue is how do I know what to correct when I don't know what's wrong - or reference if you will - in the first place?

At least for me, there's a level of knowledge I don't have to fully leverage what the Loki can offer.

An EQ can be used for room correction - or rather as part of the solution for room correction. No signal manipulation in the world can actually "correct" all the issues in a room (even sophisticated digital systems like Dirac, Audessey, Trinov, et al cannot correct every room issue.) So thinking you need an RTA and an understanding of advanced acoustics before you can realize benefits from an EQ - especially a simple graphic EQ like Loki - is a little out of the ballpark. If you want to try the EQ, get one and play with it. Listen to your rig while you play around with the adjustments. Stop when you like what you hear. Change it on every track if you want to. That's more what an EQ like Loki is for. It's to add to your enjoyment, not for use as a scientific tool for room correction. IMO, anyway.

 

[mike138]

Jason,

With all of your product offerings (and possible combinations), have you guys considered some type of a "build your rig" page for the website? Maybe a drag-and-drop visual map (like a process workflow) where people can select generic source component icons (computer, CD player, turntable,etc.), and then drag and drop icons of Schiit products to go with them. If the icons "brought" the technical specs with them, people could see if their combinations make sense; it might also keep track of what connecting cables they would need to get, and everything could export to the shopping cart when they are finished.

Of course, not being web developer, it's the type of thing I would imagine being really awesome but would take about 90 years to make function properly.