Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up

[AstronomerXI]

1. Wotan would connect to Kara either via XLR/Balanced out, or via RCA single-ended. I strongly recommend balanced, but then I have a long run to the amp from the pre-amp.

2. Sub would be a different thing, depending on the sub itself (some have ability to be driven by speaker-level connections and then synthesize the mono sub functionality). One thing you could do to leverage a line-level driven sub, would be to take the RCA output from Kara to your Denon AV, and then it’s Subwoofer-out RCA to the sub(s). Or, you might not want/need a sub with Wotan’s “control” ability; it may extract more/better bass from your current speakers… I’ve done that with my Denon AVR (fed it from my pre for when wanted to do multi-channel) in the past… but ultimately I came to the conclusion that dedicated 2 channel is for real music, and X.1 is for video (only).

3. If you did drive Wotan from the “Front” RCA outputs on the Denon, you will lose the ability that the full “stack” has for visual volume. And, you will be feeding an excellent sounding amplifier with a demonstrably inferior preamp (for MUSIC). I was faced with that exact situation 2 years ago when my Classe’ pre-amp died. I had to use my Denon AVR as a preamp. Trust me, you don’t want to do that unless you have no alternative. That lasted ONLY as long as it took for me to quickly find a used pre-amp (ultimately replaced by Kara in my case).

(Note: there MAY be an AVR out there whose audio only preamp capabilities reach Kara-level, but I’m sure not aware of any, and should they exist, I’m sure they are tons of money. I may be wrong on this, but I bet not. My Temporary “pre” while I was sorting was actually the Proceed (Levinson’s AV lineup) AVP 1 (it was many 1000’s of $$ back in its day). I got it used for only $400. But it didn’t sound as good as the Classe’ it replaced, and was only marginally better than my Denon. Kara is so much more dynamic, open, quiet, slammin’, and spatially rich than either.

More general observation that may, or may not apply for you: I’ve found that the entire “setup” in a room, for excellent 2 channel stereo with proper soundstaging and imaging is antithetical to proper setup for 5.1 (for starters, you end up with a LOT of gear and reflective surfaces between your speakers, which is sub-optimal). Yes, can be done, but why invest so much in quality 2 channel to have it gimped by co-existence gremlins that automatically come along with multi-channel, AV-oriented systems.

Great reply - thanks for taking the time to write up your thoughts. Still in the planning stages but it may happen much sooner than later. I'll work to keep the 2.1 music portions separate from the home theatre amp. Still some planning to do. At least I have my wife on board on getting a proper audio stand or two that are open shelves and preferably on wheels for easy access to cable connections.

@artur9 , I bought the Denon well before I really got into this rabbit hole hobby. Nice to see that you have some Canadian gear! My amp does not have home theatre bypass, but I'm looking at getting a passive amp/speaker switch like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004792050176.html when the time comes.

 

[Vtsailor]

Came across William Grant Still’s Symphony #1 “Afro American Symphony”. An interesting combination of jazz and classical, perhaps influenced by Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue”. A very interesting piece, there are a few different recordings on YouTube if you want to take a listen.

 

[artur9]

@artur9 , I bought the Denon well before I really got into this rabbit hole hobby. Nice to see that you have some Canadian gear! My amp does not have home theatre bypass, but I'm looking at getting a passive amp/speaker switch like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004792050176.html when the time comes.

I have one of these you're welcome to, if you want it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07255VHZS

 

[Ripper2860]

What's the "Home Depot" equivalent in England?

"Flat Depot"?

 

[DACattack]

That would absolutely kill any enjoyment I would get from a movie: the screens aren't as good as my movies require (dark and moody scary movies), the sound is pathetic (no slashers approaching from behind, no helicopters attacking from above, no stampeding herd all around, no thunderstorms filling the world with sssshhhhh-BOOM).

It might be a bit better experience than you surmise. Especially with Spatial Audio and good headphones, you get a greater sense of spatial cues. Frankly, if I want to get the full experience, I'd rather go to a movie theater. I'm sure a home theater is a fantastic thing and if I suddenly won the lottery or had a rich bachelor uncle leave me his entire fortune to build my own dedicated room I would, but I have limited resources and I'd much rather invest in either music or equipment to listen to music on. Of course, to each their own. Glad you enjoy your setup. Mine is fine for me.

 

[artur9]

... . Of course, to each their own. Glad you enjoy your setup. Mine is fine for me.

You do you, I'll do me. Just don't proselytize, please, suggesting what suits you would suit me or anyone else.

 

[jonathan c]

If you don't have any leftover parts when you finish reassembling something, it likely means you're a professional and should be paid for your work.

....regardless of where the parts went.

 

[DACattack]

You do you, I'll do me. Just don't proselytize, please, suggesting what suits you would suit me or anyone else.

Oh my, I never intended that at all. I'm sorry if you took it that way.

If there's one thing I've learned in this hobby is that we all have individual preferences, and there's hardly ever (if ever) a one size fits all in this hobby (or related ones like multichannel setups). I was only speaking of my own experience and preferences, and only meant to say that I thought the experience with newer tech was decent enough to be engaging. I wasn't suggesting it's a better way than others or that your approach wasn't just as valid. It's simply the one I choose.

Again, sorry if you took it differently than that. I'm sure if I was suddenly transported to your theater room that you'd completely convince me of the error of my ways.

 

[golfbravobravo]

Those "behinds" are turned towards the wall for a reason*
, not to be seen by our delicate eyes (in case that wasn't obvious)


That would absolutely kill any enjoyment I would get from a movie: the screens aren't as good as my movies require (dark and moody scary movies), the sound is pathetic (no slashers approaching from behind, no helicopters attacking from above, no stampeding herd all around, no thunderstorms filling the world with sssshhhhh-BOOM).

No thanks.


What's the "Home Depot" equivalent in England?

I'd gladly trade all of ours for some of their pubs....

B&Q

 

[artur9]

....

Again, sorry if you took it differently than that. I'm sure if I was suddenly transported to your theater room that you'd completely convince me of the error of my ways.

I don't know, I tend to overreact... Thanks for understanding.

Now, if you were in my theater room you'd probably hate my selection of titles: All the Resident Evils, all the Underworlds, a collection of Hammer films, The Seven Faces of Dr Lao, crap like that.

Only good thing I have is the 1999 The Mummy. Truly a masterpiece of the genre.

 

[DACattack]

@artur9 LOL, actually I think I'd enjoy any of those titles you listed above. But I absolutely agree with you that The Mummy is an (unrated) masterpiece, a textbook example of a movie whose primary purpose is to entertain, that finds that precarious balance between fun and scares and nails it, and doesn't take itself too seriously either. And (confession time) I love it in no small part because to this day I retain an immense crush on Rachel Wiesz.

 

[Bowmoreman]

I'll have you know that I am fiscally responsible. I only (mostly) drink margaritas when they are 1/2 price on Wednesday. **


** The only occasional exceptions are Friday, Saturday, and sometimes Sunday or Monday but never Sunday and Monday.



EDIT: I need a drink. I was disassembling my TT to send the needed PCB to @sam6550a for him to recap and silly me thought I'd just trurn it right side up with the bottom base off and place it in a box for safe keeping. 2 lever/cogs fell out and I have no freaking idea where they go. The service manual is not really clear on its placement. Leave it to me to make a simple task damn near impossible.

I feel your pain. At this point with my hand arthritis, it’s a 50/50 crap-shoot if I can a) get my supplements, etc. INTO the dispenser tray, and b) out of said tray at mealtimes; either/both without dropping at least ONE pill…

Carry on, nonetheless!

 

[tincanear]

Great reply - thanks for taking the time to write up your thoughts. Still in the planning stages but it may happen much sooner than later. I'll work to keep the 2.1 music portions separate from the home theatre amp. Still some planning to do. At least I have my wife on board on getting a proper audio stand or two that are open shelves and preferably on wheels for easy access to cable connections.

@artur9 , I bought the Denon well before I really got into this rabbit hole hobby. Nice to see that you have some Canadian gear! My amp does not have home theatre bypass, but I'm looking at getting a passive amp/speaker switch like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004792050176.html when the time comes.

CAUTION: opinions presented here may cause wallet to run and hide.

AV HT receivers often have very complex internal signal paths-- even the "pure direct" modes still feed the signal thru multiple cascaded gain and signal steering stages.

Wotan doubles the rated power into 4 ohms (vs 8 ohms) so it should be able to handle any normal load and relatively future-speaker-upgrade-proof, unless you are planning on some crazy-crazy-esoteric stuff like old Wilson WATT speakers which presented something like a half-ohm load right at 2kHz.

speaker-placement-with-equipment-tv-etc-in-between issues aside:
you could start with a Wotan to drive your main speakers. feed X4500H pre-outs to the Wotan SE inputs for HT, and feed Wotan Bal XLR from (Saga 2 / Freya series / Jotunheim 2 / Midgard) for 2-channel music listening. No complications with two volume controls to manage, just switch the front panel input on Wotan (or use Forkbeard app).

 

[Paladin79]

Oh my, I never intended that at all. I'm sorry if you took it that way.

If there's one thing I've learned in this hobby is that we all have individual preferences, and there's hardly ever (if ever) a one size fits all in this hobby (or related ones like multichannel setups). I was only speaking of my own experience and preferences, and only meant to say that I thought the experience with newer tech was decent enough to be engaging. I wasn't suggesting it's a better way than others or that your approach wasn't just as valid. It's simply the one I choose.

Again, sorry if you took it differently than that. I'm sure if I was suddenly transported to your theater room that you'd completely convince me of the error of my ways.

You are fine, in no way did you proselytize. Artur should reread.

I tried all three bottles you sent and all three are interesting, a peppery start and earthy, dry finish on the ryes, the bourbon starts the same with more of a caramel finish. I think it obvious they came from the same distiller and I do like all three. IMHO I think the Hazlet would be best for mixing.

 

[Bowmoreman]

Great reply - thanks for taking the time to write up your thoughts. Still in the planning stages but it may happen much sooner than later. I'll work to keep the 2.1 music portions separate from the home theatre amp. Still some planning to do. At least I have my wife on board on getting a proper audio stand or two that are open shelves and preferably on wheels for easy access to cable connections.

@artur9 , I bought the Denon well before I really got into this rabbit hole hobby. Nice to see that you have some Canadian gear! My amp does not have home theatre bypass, but I'm looking at getting a passive amp/speaker switch like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004792050176.html when the time comes.

Do not even THINK about putting a speaker switcher between something of upstream quality as pretty much all Schiit gear and your speakers. Shudder. I know you all know I am a very opinionated (and oft-times over-brusque about it) ,but… NO…

And at Wotan levels? Heresy. Amps and their speakers are a marriage. Do it right. Do it once. Hedging ruins it.

True story: did this long ago with “remoted” (as in long wiring, ha) Minimus 7’s… the difference of the added switcher was the difference between “ok/good enough” and “What is that Yoko Ono-level screeching noise?”.

Most great speakers require a lot of current (generalization, I know, but…)… Current requires “gauge”… NOT compatible with “switchable” contacts. Switch the line-levels, not the driver-level.

Yes, it will “work”, but it’ll sound terrible. (Just like my OG Stax SRD setup which has to connect to speaker level, and has a switch to take itself out of the circuit and route the amp to the speakers sounds terrible, and always has for 40 years).