[watchnerd]

  Enid Lumley.   I remember her well.

 
Ohh, her!  She has passed away in 2008.
 
I remember columns in TAS.

 

[slefty]

  Enid Lumley.   I remember her well.

Bingo! She was quite a character, but her ideas regarding line voltage, power line conditioning, and interference are pretty standard in high end audio now. I think she might have pre-dated Clark Johnson in understanding and publishing the effects of absolute phase too, though not 100% sure on that. Her system ran off of a huge industrial Variac, which she would optimize after every change in her system or incoming line voltage.. 

At one point I went to the kitchen to got a glass of water. A few minutes later as we were all listening, she commented that her system didn't sound quite right. She then asked if I had oriented the faucet back to the alignment marks after I got my water. I hadn't (I didn't know they were there) and when I went back to the kitchen, just to check, I pointed the faucet 90 degrees from the marks that I now saw on the base of the faucet.
 
About five minutes later, she commented that I obviously didn't get it right...and asked if she needed to go there to do it herself. I was there with some friends from The Absolute Sound and Fanfare magazine. We were amused, but they all went into the kitchen with me to check it out. Almost everything in her apartment had been analyzed and arranged for optimum sound.

 

[watchnerd]

At one point I went to the kitchen to got a glass of water. A few minutes later as we were all listening, she commented that her system didn't sound quite right. She then asked if I had oriented the faucet back to the alignment marks after I got my water. I hadn't (I didn't know they were there) and when I went back to the kitchen, just to check, I pointed the faucet 90 degrees from the marks that I now saw on the base of the faucet.
 
About five minutes later, she commented that I obviously didn't get it right...and asked if she needed to go there to do it herself. I was there with some friends from The Absolute Sound and Fanfare magazine. We were amused, but they all went into the kitchen with me to check it out. Almost everything in her apartment had been analyzed and arranged for optimum sound.

 
No disrespect to those who have passed, but faucets affecting sound?
 
I'd have to quit the hobby (which apparently she did) if I was getting that OCD about things in my house affecting sound.

 

[slefty]

When Brian Cheney set up the VMPS RM-2neo speakers I had in for review around 2001, after about three hours of moving, adjusting the damping on the slot loaded passive radiator (to tune the bass response, which was almost perfectly flat to about 25 Hz when he was done), all by ear. We sat and listened for a bit. He didn't like something in the upper octave (a small issue, but audible to both of us). Rather than further adjust the pot for the ribbon tweeters, he moved one of my son's hockey trophies that was on a shelf in the room about three feet to the other side of the shelf. It actually did clear up the issue.
 
Don't knock this stuff until you have obsessed over it. Fortunately for me, that obsessive nature came into play regularly in my full time, professional work also. 

 

[watchnerd]

 
Don't knock this stuff until you have obsessed over it.
 

 
Okay, but the trophy was in the room with with speakers.  That affects the acoustic of the playback room.  That's obsessive, but not irrational, and isn't beyond the realm of what is scientifically explainable.
 
But faucets in the kitchen?  Come on....

 

[josephnunn]

Hi there, first post.
 
I just put together a HT system that sounds pretty good in 2 channel, and I learned a lot about what is out there and what isn't when I did it.  In response to the RFP on amp products...
 
I would have liked a separate amp instead of an AVR, but what I discovered was:
 
1) Good amps are crazy expensive

2) Seems like most good amps require 20 amp circuits, our living room is wired with 2 15 amp circuits only and wife would not discuss adding a 20 amp circuit.  I think many newbies just will not consider adding a circuit for an amp.
 
3) I preferred the class A sound, but living in California its just too inefficient and hot.  The house can get warm in the summer and electricity is expensive.

4) Many great speakers have low nominal impedance, but finding amps rated for 4 ohms or that can double down watts into 4 ohms was a challenge, and low impedance speakers seem to sound better if the amp can double down.
 
We went with a Arcam 850AVR, which is expensive, but hear me out.  The Arcam is rated for 4 ohms, practically the only AVR I could find that is, and uses Class G amplification, so it runs in Class A for the first 30 watts.  As class G is a variation on class H, but with smoothly varying voltage rails, efficiency is greatly improved without loss of that class A sound.  It gets warm, but not crazy so.  It runs on a 15 amp circuit no problem and puts 200 watts into 4 ohms.  We are running Sonus Faber Veneres (6 ohms) with it and the sound is divine, if I hit the lottery one day I hope to get Olympicas.

There absolutely is room for a Schiit Amp in the market, what I would suggest would be:
 
Look at class G or H topologies, to have that good class A sound without the crazy heat, and inefficiency, and make it max out a 15 amp circuit but no more.  For HT 3-channel is best, as you can get the L, C, R speakers all amped/voiced the same.  The surrounds can be run by an AVR and matching them to the rest of the speakers amp wise is not important.  The amp needs to be rated for 4 ohms and ideally double down into 4 ohms, so people with Sonus Fabers and other thirsty speakers will consider it.

Personally I would look to compete with Parasound rather than Emotiva, but thats just me.
 
Joseph

 

[JohnnyCanuck]

I think that you will find that your Arcam 850AVR is running class A/B prior to kicking in the higher voltage rails (class G).

 

[NoTimeFor]

I would caution that before buying an arcam reciever, do due diligence because certain arcam receivers tent to have some issues.

 

[GearMe]

I think that you will find that your Arcam 850AVR is running class A/B prior to kicking in the higher voltage rails (class G).

It's Class A per Arcam's product literature...also, product reviews seem to confirm this. That said, whether it sounds better to you is a YMMV matter.

"What exactly is Class G?
Like a hybrid car engine, Class G implements multiple power supplies rather than just a single supply. If a dynamic signal is received that goes beyond the capability
of this first power supply, the secondary supply is gradually brought in up to full rated power output as required. This gives a very efficient design as additional power
is only used when required, much like a turbo-charger. Modern high speed silicon allows us the make this switch faster that would ever be required, even way beyond
the audio bandwidth, so there is no “turbo lag”.

The first power supply is of lower power and within this region we run in pure Class A, which has no crossover distortion. As the secondary supply is only used
when required, extreme levels of power are possible because very little energy is wasted in the amplifier as heat when it is not being used. Without control this power
would be ill-used, so like high performance car tyres, multiple output devices within the amplifier keep a tight grip on the loudspeaker at all times, ensuring your
listening experience never “leaves the road”.

 

[Ableza]

   
Okay, but the trophy was in the room with with speakers.  That affects the acoustic of the playback room.  That's obsessive, but not irrational, and isn't beyond the realm of what is scientifically explainable.
 
But faucets in the kitchen?  Come on....

It's irrational.  Sorry.

 

[Ableza]

It's Class A per Arcam's product literature...clip

Was that marketing gobbelty-gook from Arcam's literature?  Wow, no wonder I've never had any interest in that brand...
 
Class "G" (and "H") is a designation for a class A/B amplifier using a power supply that can switch between multiple power rails based on output level.  This allows higher overall efficiency but make no mistake, at it's heart it is a standard class A/B amplifier.

 

[GearMe]

Was that marketing gobbelty-gook from Arcam's literature?  Wow, no wonder I've never had any interest in that brand...

Class "G" (and "H") is a designation for a class A/B amplifier using a power supply that can switch between multiple power rails based on output level.  This allows higher overall efficiency but make no mistake, at it's heart it is a standard class A/B amplifier.

Yes...it's their marketing literature. Can't speak to their products as I've never owned them. That said, they claim to have two power supplies one for Class A, and a second for Class G. As I said, whether this sounds good is up to the individual.

TBH, you'd never find me paying 5-10K for an AVR anyway.

 

[Ableza]

I doubt very much there are actually two separate power supplies.  Besides that fact that there would be no advantage to that, it would increase complexity and cost and could actually cause problems.  They are switching between the rails, which is a standard Class G design.  Now if they also designed that switch to coincide with the amp switching from Class A to Class A/B, then that's interesting and something to talk about.  All Class A/B amplifiers operate in "pure class A" for at least part of their power range.  Some more than others, of course.

 

[GearMe]

I doubt very much there are actually two separate power supplies.  Besides that fact that there would be no advantage to that, it would increase complexity and cost and could actually cause problems.  They are switching between the rails, which is a standard Class G design.  Now if they also designed that switch to coincide with the amp switching from Class A to Class A/B, then that's interesting and something to talk about.  All Class A/B amplifiers operate in "pure class A" for at least part of their power range.  Some more than others, of course.

I can't speak to the truthfulness of their claims and you obviously know way more about their product design than I do...I'll leave it to you tilt at that windmill.

Here are the links to their marketing collateral!
http://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/p49/Amplifier%20Class%20FAQ/Amp%20class_FAQ_150714_C.pdf
http://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/avr850/Class%20G%20Explained/Class_G_the_ultimate_amplifier_technology_150714_A.pdf


FWIW, I have no dog in this fight as I'm now strictly headphones for my music listening. That said, I thought it was worthwhile to know what they really claimed since it was brought up.

To your point, it sounds more complex from a design standpoint. Even so, they wouldn't be the first company that pursued this type of over-complicated 'design' strategy to gain an edge...be it real (sounds better) or imaginary (marketing hype).

In the end, I'm a believer in the KISS principle. As such, I expect my next amp purchase will be an Asgard 2 (not a Jotunheim) to replace my Magni. Too much hassle to convert to balanced from my perspective; hence no additional value to me for the extra $150.

 

[Ableza]

I'm not tilting at any windmills, I'm just trying to help you understand that based on their specs and marketing info, it's a standard Class G design that lots of others have done.  That's all I'm saying.  I could not care less about them or their designs, actually.  My intent is to simply add some basic engineering clarity to this discussion.