[MacMan31]

The BF 2/64 upgrade card is $400 Canadian plus any shipping and customs. That's quite the pricy upgrade. Is the sound change really noticeable?

 

[Luckyleo]

The BF 2/64 upgrade card is $400 Canadian plus any shipping and customs. That's quite the pricy upgrade. Is the sound change really noticeable?

Yes! to me..... A completely different unit IMHO, YMMV

Leo

 

[DeckHiFi]

But apparently neither of you have used NOS as it was intended. It’s great that you like the BF 2 64 in pure NOS mode, but that’s no substitute for a powerful filter. Roon, JRiver, Audirvana, and HQPlayer have them. The last costs around $200 and has closed form filters like MCB and many other types with vastly more power than can be put in a DAC chassis. I used HQP for years and often got fed up with the interface, but the sound was worth it.

I haven't tried any of this, but that seems like a limiting view. The whole point of what they were saying was the tube pre-amp and amp gives a better sound than a filter to them. Sure, HQPlayer might be great, but they are already trying the filter in the BF2 and much prefer the tube route. It makes perfect sense to me, the whole point of tubes is to create a different sound. So if someone found magic with that combo and NOS, all the power to them.

 

[theeclone]

Free

I haven't tried any of this, but that seems like a limiting view. The whole point of what they were saying was the tube pre-amp and amp gives a better sound than a filter to them. Sure, HQPlayer might be great, but they are already trying the filter in the BF2 and much prefer the tube route. It makes perfect sense to me, the whole point of tubes is to create a different sound. So if someone found magic with that combo and NOS, all the power to them.

Plus, as was discussed earlier, no amount of digital filtering will remove the ultrasonics (sometimes referred to as aliasing, but technically they are mirror frequencies) that result from the lack of an analog smoothing (or "reconstruction") filter when in NOS mode. I think they're going on the theory that the tubes are doing some of that smoothing for them.

And I believe theveterens is doing some filtering/upsampling in their player anyway. But of course, you can't effectively upsample to anything higher than 192K in the player as that's the highest the BF2 will allow as its input.

Since the BF2 is a 8x OS DAC when using Schiit's MCB filter, my theory is that there is a smoothing filter optimized for 8x, or that perhaps at 8x, the ultrasonics are just not a concern (as opposed to at 192K or below).

But yeah, stairstep waveform coming out of the analog section of the DAC == ultrasonics, pure and simple. No way around it. Jason confirmed that in NOS mode that's the kind of waveform being output from the BF2.

 

[theveterans]

And I believe theveterens is doing some filtering/upsampling in their player anyway. But of course, you can't effectively upsample to anything higher than 192K in the player as that's the highest the BF2 will allow as its input.

No upsampling unless I’m playing hi-res files which puts the artifacts far higher than audible frequency range. A lot of tube preamplifiers typically give great dynamics and excellent holographic imaging on their own. Schiit’s MCB filters does some of that digitally and when paired with those combo, it sounds like “too much of a good thing” which deviates from the natural/lifelike presentation to a less realistic presentation. Also, hi-res files at 24/96 mixes an excellent blend of oversampling smoothing effects without sacrificing NOS sheer microdetail retrieval while 24/192 goes even smoother than 24/96. Obviously this is describing BF2 and tubes and definitely would have a different experience with SS or op-amp based amps. The hi-res files on NOS mode sounds different than hires files on MCB where there’s less variation in smoothness in MCB mode. Also, MCB mode hits a little bit bloomier on the bass notes than NOS even when playing back hires files on either modes

 

[theeclone]

No upsampling unless I’m playing hi-res files which puts the artifacts far higher than audible frequency range. A lot of tube preamplifiers typically give great dynamics and excellent holographic imaging on their own. Schiit’s MCB filters does some of that digitally and when paired with those combo, it sounds like “too much of a good thing” which deviates from the natural/lifelike presentation to a less realistic presentation. Also, hi-res files at 24/96 mixes an excellent blend of oversampling smoothing effects without sacrificing NOS sheer microdetail retrieval while 24/192 goes even smoother than 24/96. Obviously this is describing BF2 and tubes and definitely would have a different experience with SS or op-amp based amps

My apologies. I think maybe it was another head-fier that was loving the sound of upsampling in their player w BF2 NOS mode.

 

[theveterans]

My apologies. I think maybe it was another head-fier that was loving the sound of upsampling in their player w BF2 NOS mode.

No worries I actually like the hi-res 24/96 files on NOS mode just as much as the 16/44.1
It’s only the 24/192 that IMHO needs better HQPlayer upsampling to tone down the smoothness and bring the raw microdetails and microdynamics front and center to my tastes

 

[TheFrator]

Currently have the Spring 3 KTE. The Bifrost does a lot of what the spring does compared to standard delta sigma that I have heard. The spring just adds more smoothness to the high end which I enjoy. Currently in process of getting a May KTE.

How does the imaging and soundstage compare between the Spring 3 KTE and Bifrost 2/64? I've been looking at Spring 3 KTE as my next DAC sometime down the road. My test track is Reflection by Tool for this.

 

[rivonlol]

How does the imaging and soundstage compare between the Spring 3 KTE and Bifrost 2/64? I've been looking at Spring 3 KTE as my next DAC sometime down the road. My test track is Reflection by Tool for this.

Using Qobuz > Spring 3 / Bifrost 264 > WA22 > Atrium

Just did a full listen on both DACs and jotted down notes on each and compared.

The drums in the beginning seemed tighter on the Bifrost but fuller on the Spring
The guitar around 3 minutes on the Bifrost sounded jagged/pixelated. almost like I was looking at 8bit art rather than a photograph.
the vocals around 4 minutes sound more isolated/separated from instruments on the Bifrost.
the bowww sound around 5 minutes again sounds jagged/pixelated on the Bifrost compared to full and complete on the spring.
guitar at 6:30 again sounds harsh. on the Spring, it just blends in with the music. much more enjoyable to listen to.
around 7:15 the guitar seemed to overpower the song on the Bifrost and sound harsh. the spring was able to separate them better while blending them together... almost like an oil painting with lots of colors vs 8bit art.

the soundstage on the spring seems wider left to right but narrower front to back.

I think if you are using your DAC to listen to music, you will enjoy the Spring 3 much more. If your goal is to pinpoint enemies in CS:GO or COD, Bifrost is the way to go.

Keep in mind, I have been listening to the spring for a couple weeks now without listening to the bifrost at all and i just used it cold, i know it may sound better warmed up. so some of the things I noticed may be exaggerated to me.

Also, if you are looking to buy a Spring 3 KTE, I am able to sell one at a decent price that has cosmetic damage. Still sounds perfect! I liked it so much I plan on getting a May very soon.

 

[decooney]

Keep in mind, I have been listening to the spring for a couple weeks now without listening to the bifrost at all and i just used it cold, i know it may sound better warmed up. so some of the things I noticed may be exaggerated to me.

The first 14 days I owned my Bifrost 2/64 I was regularly reminded by Schiit experienced folks here to 1) leave it on, 2) ensure its been on for at least 24hrs.

And, 3) If I leave any of my gear powered off for more than a week and startup cold and compare it, the listening test is not helpful until its been on 24-48hrs.

Noticed the same with any of my solid state or tube preamps, amplifiers, dacs, and even the streamer itself. Cold-start sounds cold.

 

[Sam Lord]

No worries I actually like the hi-res 24/96 files on NOS mode just as much as the 16/44.1
It’s only the 24/192 that IMHO needs better HQPlayer upsampling to tone down the smoothness and bring the raw microdetails and microdynamics front and center to my tastes

+1 @theveterans What he said. Until you've heard NOS mode on the Bifrost 2/64 dac with the right tube preamplifier and tube amplifier behind it, also with speakers, you don't know what you are missing out on. Sure, we've tried the internal MCB digital filter. In my particular tube system, the MCB filter can sound a little boosted, bloated, bassy, slightly grainy, oversamply, and a bit more forward. NOS is bliss on my tube system with large in-home speakers. Have to hear it to understand it. Same result with my other NOS tube dac too. Its been fun to compare this BF264 dac with its NOS and MCB filter modes. Depth, more musical and more engaging. Not even close. Hands down, enjoy NOS the most. Your experience may vary on solid state preamplification and amplification and/or headphones.

Okay, thank you. I just wanted to be sire that prospective buyers understood that the main reason for Schiit’s enabling an NOS mode in BF 2 64 and the Yggy+ was to satisfy users who wanted to try external filters. And, it is finally clear to me, people who want to try NOS alone. You folks have considered all the options.

It is an interesting idea to use a tube amp as a lowpass filter for DACs with >=88.1k outputs. I am too fond of fast, accurate bass to return to output transformers, though they can be magical. Tube pres are great, but won’t rolloff like the amps. But let’s make clear that analog (i.e. output) filters like series caps will reduce aliasing and can eliminate the stairstep output, but the digital (i.e. input) filters can only reduce aliasing and some other artifacts. Thanks for your comments.

 

[TheFrator]

Using Qobuz > Spring 3 / Bifrost 264 > WA22 > Atrium

Just did a full listen on both DACs and jotted down notes on each and compared.

The drums in the beginning seemed tighter on the Bifrost but fuller on the Spring
The guitar around 3 minutes on the Bifrost sounded jagged/pixelated. almost like I was looking at 8bit art rather than a photograph.
the vocals around 4 minutes sound more isolated/separated from instruments on the Bifrost.
the bowww sound around 5 minutes again sounds jagged/pixelated on the Bifrost compared to full and complete on the spring.
guitar at 6:30 again sounds harsh. on the Spring, it just blends in with the music. much more enjoyable to listen to.
around 7:15 the guitar seemed to overpower the song on the Bifrost and sound harsh. the spring was able to separate them better while blending them together... almost like an oil painting with lots of colors vs 8bit art.

the soundstage on the spring seems wider left to right but narrower front to back.

I think if you are using your DAC to listen to music, you will enjoy the Spring 3 much more. If your goal is to pinpoint enemies in CS:GO or COD, Bifrost is the way to go.

Keep in mind, I have been listening to the spring for a couple weeks now without listening to the bifrost at all and i just used it cold, i know it may sound better warmed up. so some of the things I noticed may be exaggerated to me.

Also, if you are looking to buy a Spring 3 KTE, I am able to sell one at a decent price that has cosmetic damage. Still sounds perfect! I liked it so much I plan on getting a May very soon.

Thank you very very much!

 

[XGeneX88]

I have an issue on my Bifrost 2/64 where if I leave and come back hours later the DAC has that terrible sounding compression issue. This does not happen when I'm switching sample rates or in exclusive mode. Only when I leave for a few hours and come back. switching to NOS mode and back to OS fixes it for that entire listening session.
I received the unit last week and assumed it came with lates firmware however just in case I updated it to the latest firmware and the problem still persists. Working with Schiit now.


As far as sound goes, I've had the Bifrost 2 Unison, D90SE, Holo Spring 3 KTE, and a few others. This 2/64 is a massive upgrade from the previous Bifrost in my opinion. The previous version was good, but to my ears the 2/64 is a TRUE middle ground between full R2R and Delta Sigma options. and for many I can see this being end game.

Comparisons (I am terrible at this, but I will try my best)

These are all using an iFi iCAN pro signature amp with HE1000SE headphones mainly. I have used other headphones, but the comparisons were used with 1000SE

Comparing the Holo Spring 3 and the 2/64 - This probably is not a fair comparison, but i was actually impressed how the 2/64 stood its ground against the spring 3. There is slightly more treble energy in the 2/64 but the spring 3 is superior when it comes to treble control and tonality. The spring 3 has better weight with its notes and reaches further down into sub bass, has better sound stage and imaging but has a more relaxed nature. The 2/64 has a way of showing you micro details with a slightly more in your face presentation to the natural presentation of the spring 3. Both are good at depth in the soundstage but the spring 3 presents everything with a natural holographic stage. the 2/64 has good separation but less space in between instruments. There were some songs i preferred the dynamics from the Bifrost especially with electronic/bass music.

Bifrost 2 Unison vs 2/64 - In my opinion the 2/64 version is just better at everything than the old version. More space, More dynamic, more depth, better subbass and texture. the 64 does have a slightly more thin mid range when compared to the older Bifrost 2. With the old version things could sound a bit too warm. (To some this may be a benefit) The new version still has a slight warm tilt but not to the extent of the Bifrost 2 unison. I could see some people liking the old version if they have a very bright chain.

D90SE VS 2/64 - this is an easy one if you like pure resolution and a very intimate presentation the D90SE is for you. It is more resolving than the 2/64 but the tradeoff is everything sounded very digital to me on the D90. The 2/64 has way better stage size/depth and way better subbass performance and a more organic signature.

EF400 VS 2/64 - Let me preface this one by saying that i think the EF-400 is very good value for the money considering its a dac/amp for less than the Bifrost, but just in case anyone was wondering.... i hooked it up to the iCAN pro via SE output to use just the DAC stage. Well...... the Bifrost is better in every single way EXCEPT the HE400 is just super smooth. I would only prefer the EF-400 if I was listening to like Lo-Fi study music. The Bifrost is in a completely different league here.

Sorry if my ramblings make no sense this is just my opinion but i am impressed with the 2/64 version. one of the best DACS I've heard sub $1,500

Dude thank you.. your comparisons are helpful beyond belief. So glad you shared your findings / comparisons. Def swung me over to pull the trigger on a 2/64 Bifrost. It sounds exactly like what I'm looking for.

 

[decooney]

@XGeneX88 Dude thank you.. your comparisons are helpful beyond belief. So glad you shared your findings / comparisons. Def swung me over to pull the trigger on a 2/64 Bifrost. It sounds exactly like what I'm looking for.

@XGeneX88 fwiw, my primary dac is a tube dac, and decided I wanted a non-tube dac to rotate in once in a while for testing purposes. Was not willing to spend up on a 2nd dac as a backup but did have my eyes on the Yggy originally. Reading some very early reports on the new BF and BF 2/64, and a few comments by Jason Stoddard personally running a BF on his desk instead of Yggy, thought what the heck, give it a go for a 15 day demo. Was likely to return it. Was not a Schiit fanboy or anything. Grown to appreciate the design, hardware, got geeked out for a second to try something with the new TI chips.

The BF 2/64 was not supposed to surprise me or capture my attention. At 7-10 days in, I was hearing some new/different things with tracks I had heard hundreds of times prior. The 15 day trial period came up and I simply could not get myself to want to return it. Kept it. My first thought was to rotate dacs every 15-30 days. Now well past a month, still have no desire to swap it out. It has not moved. The BF 2/64 dac is still in primary position. Liking it.

 

[schneller]

Still wish someone could post listening impressions:

Bifrost 2/64 vs. Gungnir Multibit Unison

Bifrost 2/64 vs. Yggdrasil LIM

In a 2.0 speaker setup, preferably using SE DAC outputs.