[automojo]

With the Project DAC Box FL… there’s was something different enough in its sound, that I wanted to keep it around-even though it didn’t sound the best, I thought in some of my older system configurations.
The uncoupled output could be part of why it's a bit picky.
It also has a complete lack of digital sound.
I think that's why it throws a lot of people off.

Because I would Imagine most people-when looking at dacs-still want some of those digital music traits. Detail resolution, as one example.
The Van Alstine/ Proton AP1000, and the final Mojo AMT3 version, particularly the Jatzen Superior Z/ Mundorfs and the Infinity RS iiia’s (destined for Jatzens Z’s and Mojo Mods).. makes this a well rounded system that can ( and does) play all day , all type/ genre with plenty of soul AND detail. The speakers playing the major role here.

Mainly XM, but Amazon Music as well.
Broadcast, l/ps, cd’s and reel to reel also on tap. As well as a smart tv.
A 1. 5 system.

IMHO you can never have too much detail… the quality IMHO, is what’s important.
If you loose the soul and listenability, then it’s gone too far for myself
Unless your doing studio work.. I don’t see the point

 

[decooney]

re: As a follow-up to the previous post, and related to "pairing" of the new Bifrost 2/64 dac with the "right amp" and "the rest of the signal chain" ... is something that I was thinking about recently. Today I came across a related video by a member here on Head-Fi and his Youtube channel, Reviews by @WaveTheory. Titled Schiit Bifrost 2/64 DA Full Review & Comparison w/ OG Bifrost 2, pub Aug 30, 2022. Starting at 40m in to the video it tees up the conversation and around 41m 35sec he talks about this. I found it helpful in comparing initial thoughts.

This reconfirms some of what we are talking about here and reinforces thoughts how the rest of the system will lead some to one dac, or maybe another, or to stay with the OG Bifrost in some cases where the overall system may be brighter in nature. In my situation I'm running particular input/output tubes and interconnects and speaker cabling that does really lend well with a neutral sounding dac vs an overly rich or weighty sounding unit. For some SS amp owners, maybe it means a different amp or cabling, and for some tube amps owners, maybe different tubes to fine tune to mate better with either the OG or new BF 2/64 dac. Looking for more reviewers to pop up on this discussion and considerations about OG BF vs. BF 2/64.

 

[automojo]

Good points.
And frankly some aren't going to want to retune their system for one component, among other reasons.
If you wander over to SBAF-some describe the opposite-the BFs OG being bright and the BF2/64 being less bright.
(The AD chips do have a sparkle for sure.)
System tendencies, cables etc all play a part in the end sound.
But it all kind of goes along with if the BF2 OG is satisfying enough in your system, probably best leaving it as is.
In my system-the BF2 OG certainly isn't perfect.
Music wise and enjoyment yes.
Resolving and ultimate detail-probably not.
But that's the balance with any component.
Regardless of your system being bright or not.
Even with my Heils, and Emits-from what I'm leaning lately-the BF 2 /64 would be fine in my 1.5 system.
I would enjoy it for what it is.
But there is really no need from my perspective.
I have a few other dac choices if I want a change-Project and Modi +3-a few of the classic Muse Dac's.
In a nut shell the BF2 OG is good enough for me not to want to change it.
If I wanted the BF 2 /64 sound-I frankly would save up for a new, or more like used separate unit instead of the board upgrade.
So not unlike the Project Dac Box FL-not need to change it.
This is all separate from Schiit as a company and it's goals.
I think some Schiit fans forget that sometimes.
As one frustrated post pointed out-"this was supposed to be a upgrade".
And as pointed out:
Sure, but there is no guarantee you won't have to do changes to your current system to maximize it.

 

[decooney]

@automojo as I reminded a friend his morning the same comment one of my other old timer audio buddies said to me so many times over the years of upgrades and mods we did, "its all system dependent". For me, i'd send any unliked dac out and down the road long before I'd change out my amps or custom built speakers. Totally agree it's not worth changing out other major components for the sake of a DAC if you like your other components more.

I'll check out those observations on SBAF, I've spent time over there before with my other dacs and chip and cap upgrades and such so that will be interesting to revisit there. Honestly, I find you guys here on Head-Fi enjoyable to collaborate with and truly appreciate opinions and feedback here. A good site.

UPDATE: BF 2/64 - Day 14
After a few weeks with the new Schiit Bifrost 2/64, a few things have resolved for me in my system 1) it sounds fairly "neutral" in NOS mode in my system. 2) Leaving it powered on for at least 24 hours before use does seem to have an impact on the sound - smooth, no grain or etch at all. 3) Day 10-14 is def better than Day 1 with some time on it now. So far this dac is actually exceeding my expectations. I wanted to try a solid $value$ "made in the usa" dac. It's good.

 

[theveterans]

@automojo as I reminded a friend his morning the same comment one of my other old timer audio buddies said to me so many times over the years of upgrades and mods we did, "its all system dependent". For me, i'd send any unliked dac out and down the road long before I'd change out my amps or custom built speakers. Totally agree it's not worth changing out other major components for the sake of a DAC if you like your other components more.

I'll check out those observations on SBAF, I've spent time over there before with my other dacs and chip and cap upgrades and such so that will be interesting to revisit there. Honestly, I find you guys here on Head-Fi enjoyable to collaborate with and truly appreciate opinions and feedback here. A good site.

UPDATE: BF 2/64 - Day 14
After a few weeks with the new Schiit Bifrost 2/64, a few things have resolved for me in my system 1) it sounds fairly "neutral" in NOS mode in my system. 2) Leaving it powered on for at least 24 hours before use does seem to have an impact on the sound - smooth, no grain or etch at all. 3) Day 10-14 is def better than Day 1 with some time on it now. So far this dac is actually exceeding my expectations. I wanted to try a solid $value$ "made in the usa" dac. It's good.

Glad you like the NOS mode . The introduction of the NOS mode is a game changer. It's crazy good when you find the right amp that matches the NOS signature from BF2. OS mode IME is far more compatible with many amps but the NOS mode becomes magic with the right amp IME

 

[automojo]

Interesting may have to at least try the software update on mine.
And perhaps that's the key to the BF2/64-NOS.
The NOS Project sounds very good in my setup.
But as I have found-not so good in some combo's.
I agree-leave them on-as the consumption isn't huge.
Interesting on the comments on loose bass with the OG BF @ SBAF. I think running sealed bass on both set of speakers makes this issue moot with any decent hifi gear.
Never recall loose bass on a set of cans......

 

[decooney]

BF 2/64 - I find I dont need more of anything with my custom designed main speakers and stereo subs. When switching out of NOS mode to the Schiit designed MCB digital filter w/8x oversampling brings more of what I don't need (on my particular system). Could be 180 degrees out for other people's systems who might truly benefit more with the MegaComboBurrito filter on. Having the benefit to switch either mode/filter on & off with a front switch sure makes it nice in testing both. When I departed from my last two delta-sigma dacs, and started down the R2R NOS dac path, my other R2R ladder dac, and now the new BF 2/64, NOS mode works best for me and my preference fwiw.

 

[theveterans]

Glad to be with me on the NOS team

 

[automojo]

Ok-well you all talked me into try the BF NOS.
Have to track down a micro sd card.

 

[decooney]

Interesting may have to at least try the software update on mine.
And perhaps that's the key to the BF2/64-NOS.
The NOS Project sounds very good in my setup.
But as I have found-not so good in some combo's.
I agree-leave them on-as the consumption isn't huge.
Interesting on the comments on loose bass with the OG BF @ SBAF. I think running sealed bass on both set of speakers makes this issue moot with any decent hifi gear.
Never recall loose bass on a set of cans......

@automojo if I'm understanding correctly do you have the Bifrost 2 or the Bifrost OG? Reading here it states the firmware update is "also available for the Bifrost 2". Wondering which dac version and dac chip you have in yours, AKM? Can you update the older OG model to enable NOS as well, etc? If so that would be interesting to try.

Was looking at this new Aug '22 update that came available and the description of: "Enables NOS (non-oversampled) mode on all Bifrost 2" at this link here: https://www.schiit.com/firmware

 

[decooney]

Glad to be with me on the NOS team

Its a good team to be on! Wanting a less fatiguing sound and the ability to [also] listen to older less-than-perfect recordings is what eventually drove me to seeking dacs and old cd players with old chips and native NOS capability. A few friends who rotated lots of different tube amps, several variations of r2r tube and non-tube dacs, got me on the NOS track again 5 years ago. I find its not too far off from comparing the sound stage on some of my former triode and pentode/utralinear amps fwiw.

 

[automojo]

@automojo if I'm understanding correctly do you have the Bifrost 2 or the Bifrost OG? Reading here it states the firmware update is "also available for the Bifrost 2". Wondering which dac version and dac chip you have in yours, AKM? Can you update the older OG model to enable NOS as well, etc? If so that would be interesting to try.

Was looking at this new Aug '22 update that came available and the description of: "Enables NOS (non-oversampled) mode on all Bifrost 2" at this link here: https://www.schiit.com/firmware

Yes, I have the OG.
So I’m just going to update the software to allow the NOS mode.
The 2/64 might be in the future, maybe after the Infinity / Superior Z recap and Mojo Mods….

 

[decooney]

Yes, I have the OG.
So I’m just going to update the software to allow the NOS mode.
The 2/64 might be in the future, maybe after the Infinity / Superior Z recap and Mojo Mods….

Its great how the firmware/software updates are backward compatible with prior hardware versions.

The interesting part is opposing comments on some other sites indicating the update is "brighter with NOS" on the card-swap option or OG, and yet how comments change to "its not as bright" and/or "smoother and warmer" on the newer BF 2/64 hardware in NOS mode (wide inconsistency). Perhaps the difference in the cards, or chips, or bits used, or how NOS behaves differently for each for each hardware type version of BF OG, BF 2, BF 2/64 somehow. Disclaimer: I for one have no clue, just curious about the opposing comments, and why such radical feedback differences for the same non-oversampling mode.

Maybe one of the subject matter experts on this forum will chime in and educate us more on the topic.

 

[automojo]

Sure.
Will see what happens.
I’m not too worried.
NOS can add energy in the top end/ sparkle.
Even with Heils and Emits, and associated gear, I would not consider my system bright, but fairly well balanced.
The stock RS iiia’s are fairly well balanced, if you drive them with a amp capable of driving them fully.
Otherwise they will sound bright.
With the stock caps, at times they can have a small edge, not a huge deal.
The Jatzens will bring them into better focus and balance for sure.
But still excellent sounding full range speakers as is.
The Mojo AMT 3’s are well balanced as well.
Great Heils can be slightly colored, in a good way… but the mods have made them balanced full ranger… vs a Great Heil show.
And that’s what I like about the BF OG.
It goes on the same theme.
Your main focus is on the music, not the specific components.
I think as The descriptions I’ve had more time to revise them regarding the BF2/64.
I don’t think it would change that main quality of my system
And perhaps even enhance it.

 

[automojo]

I think what may throw some off is the less thick presentation of the BF 2/64.
This may account for some to err on a brightness description?
I frankly don’t notice this as a draw back in my setup, but of course don’t have a 2/64 to compare yet.
What would be really interesting- IMHO is comparing the BF2/64 to the LIM Yiggy.
Because these seem to be more similar to each other.
I also have to wonder if these new boards need more time to settle down, and round out to their true potential?