SACD sound onto 96khz 24bit DAT ?!

[Sandro]

Hi everyone...

Would it be possible to record a SACD onto a 96khz 24bit DAT Recorder?

The two of them seems to have same technical caracteristics... but digital recording are capricious...

I know Onkyo used to have some of these Recorders.

Of course SACD is multichannel, but I still believe Hi-Fi is REAL Hi-fi with two speakers... and for my HD600 I only have two ears...

So does someone has already tried the conversion?

If not... what are you doing in front of your computer?!

If it doesn't work... why?

If it works... which equipment did you use?

Reactions...



Sandro

 

[markl]

Quote:

The two of them seems to have same technical caracteristics... but digital recording are capricious...

Not at all totally different. 24/96 like Redbook CD is PCM digital, SACD uses DSD which a single-bit system with a huge sampling rate. You can read about it here: http://www.sonymusic.com/sacd/ Quote:

Of course SACD is multichannel,

No, it *can be* multi-channel, but it most commonly is just a standard 2-channel mix. If you have a multi-channel SACD, it will also have a regular 2-channel stereo version on it as well. A growing number also have a regular Redbook CD layer as well so they can be played back on regular CDPs.

It's also not clear to me what you are trying to record. Are you trying to create an SACD/DSD recording of an event, or convert an SACD that you bought from the store onto tape? You can reord in DSD but you need special very expensive very new and rare equipment to do it.

Right now most SACDPs don't have a way to digitally ouput the SACD hi-rez layer, due to record companies fear of illegal piracy. If you are trying to copy an SACD, for now, you would have to make the recording from the analog ouputs of your SACDP.

 

[Sandro]

I didn't knew about Direct Stream Digital, just thought the SACD was a "SuperCD", but in facts it's not based on the same technologies.

And I have no SACD player and no DAT recorder... so I'm pretty far from trying to copy anything

That was just something I asked myself...

Thank you for your answer,

Sandro

 

[kartik]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl Right now most SACDPs don't have a way to digitally ouput the SACD hi-rez layer, due to record companies fear of illegal piracy. If you are trying to copy an SACD, for now, you would have to make the recording from the analog ouputs of your SACDP.

Hmm...
This is almost correct. In a sense some SACD players do have a direct digital output. A lot of the newer players come with Firewire digital outputs. My 2001 model Sharp SACD player has a proprietary digital output for the sharp digital amplifier. The part about the fear of piracy is absolutely correct because the digital output ends with the amp. Only the analog signal is outputted by the amp as either an analog or a PCM 16/44.1 signal (converted from the analog).

 

[Mastergill]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandro Would it be possible to record a SACD onto a 96khz 24bit DAT Recorder?

Yes you can but you need first a SACD player with firewire digital out. ( I think now you can find some, not sure, but i read that somewhere)
And second you need a professional AD/DA with DSD to PCM convertion and that may cost a lot!

 

[kartik]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mastergill And second you need a professional AD/DA with DSD to PCM convertion and that may cost a lot!

Paid 212.50 for an AD/DA DSD PCM converting amplifier on Ebay (Brand new from the manufacturer). Retail was $4999.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

And can it read the firewire output from whatever player you have? I thought if they were afraid of piracy the firewire output would be in some proprietary unreadable format.

 

[Mastergill]

Quote:

Originally posted by kartik Paid 212.50 for an AD/DA DSD PCM converting amplifier on Ebay (Brand new from the manufacturer). Retail was $4999.

Congrats man! Which brand ? ( hey $212.50 instead of $5k, new from the manufacturer that's strange, are you sure it's a working unit ? )

Joe Bloggs,

I don't own myself a SACD drive or player, so i'm not %100 sure, but i did a quick search once and i saw some SACD player (or it was high-end drive only i have to check) with firewire digital out, they must have some copy protection, but can be used with separate DA converters that also make DSD to PCM convertion i guess. The problem is that there's no standart for the Hi-rez digital out. You can have firewire, XLR, BNC and maybe RCA connector.
It seems firewire is taking the lead.

 

[kartik]

It was the sharp SM-SX1 in perfect working order that now is being resold on audiogon by a bunch of guys (who also got in on the market) for $1000 now. It sounds perfect for its companion DX-SX1 cd player.

 

[Sandro]

This means we can't record SACD onto DAT or Minidisc because we'd need a DSD to PCM converter?
(of course, the lost of details would be significant)

Doesn't SACD players have a "standard" optical laser output?
I mean is the optical output DSD?

If it is DSD... what is it there for? Digital amplifiers? HighEnd converters? Future "copy out"?

What about recording a Hybrid SACD onto a DAT/MD recorder using a SACD player?

And finaly... what is a firewire?

(That's a lot of questions guys, I know...)

Sandro

 

[kartik]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandro This means we can't record SACD onto DAT or Minidisc because we'd need a DSD to PCM converter? (of course, the lost of details would be significant) Doesn't SACD players have a "standard" optical laser output? I mean is the optical output DSD? If it is DSD... what is it there for? Digital amplifiers? HighEnd converters? Future "copy out"? What about recording a Hybrid SACD onto a DAT/MD recorder using a SACD player? And finaly... what is a firewire? (That's a lot of questions guys, I know...) Sandro

Most digital outputs from a cd player are sent out as a PCM conversion which is why they aren't always as nice sounding as the DSD SACD which is unconverted. The DSD out is very and I repeat very limited to probably this player, the high end pioneer and the dCS units. I am yet to come across another DSD output (And I may well be wrong!) You could record to the DAT or MD which would entail converting DSD PWM to PCM and then downsampling to 16/44.1 or 20-bit/44.1/48kHz signal which would degrade the quality proportionate to the number of conversions. much better to use a good redbook transport with a decent DAC to do what you're proposing. Firewire is the same as the iLink or IEE1394 connection on a computer enabling ultrahigh speed data transfer. This is necessary because the size of data transfer in SACD is 64x the size of the data transferred in redbook.

 

[davei]

Isn't the Firewire out on SACD players encrypted?

 

[kartik]

I wouldn't know. my DSD output is via a proprietary output only for the Sharp digital amps.

 

[kartik]

I just confirmed a review on audioholics that the firewire output is only for DVD-A and it is encrypted only for their flagship amp.