[Czilla9000]

http://www.harmonicdiscord.com/forum...pic.php?t=9318

 

[x1lexure]

On TechTV they talked about how sony was coming out with a new type of disc. Something bluedisc or other. But those are supposed to come out in awhile from now.

 

[HD-5000]

wow. just wow. If this is true, it will be a great blow to the audiophile community.

 

[BoardC3]

wow thats so lame before i didnt like sony that much but if this is true then i dont think i will buy sony products if i can avoid it.

 

[Calanctus]

The post was yesterday (Wednesday) and claimed that there would be an article in the papers today. Was there??

 

[darkclouds]

I doubt it.

 

[CaptBubba]

Blu-ray or whatever the latest word for it is not an audio format. It is a video format intended to replace the VCR when HDTV starts to gain momentum. It records using a blue laser (hence the name) and can pack some obscene amounts onto discs, like 27GB/side

, enough to allow for 2.5hrs of HDTV recording with no loss of quality, 4-6hrs are possible with compression. I don't expect them to switch away from red-laser formats for audio though because blue and violet laser currently don't have very high MTBF numbers, so I'd expect to see dual laser drives (or dual tray drives, as blu-ray discs may be in catridge form, much like a larger minidisc) to allow for cd/dvd/SACD playback.

 

[Anders]

Seems to be a rumour that spreads between sites as the virus hoaxes. Created by misunderstunding or ill will.
Would REALLY be stupid by Sony to turn it down when they have made agreements with record companies, built special factories for hybrid discs and are beginning to have some success.

 

[Calanctus]

Today is Friday. Czilla9000, has the rumoured article appeared yet?

 

[Czilla9000]

As far as I can see, no.

 

[Zanth]

I can understand if this is in fact true. Most of the market wants music on demand not necessarily fidelity on demand. They want cheap portable music, CHEAP being key. MP3's or whatever digital incarnation will reign, is the future of music. HT keeps DVD alive because VHS was so crappy. Vinyl may have the edge is dynamic range etc, it lacks in portability and ease of use. CD's do everything an SACD can do and more. The single advantage to SACD is fidelity. One now needs a higher fidelity player and a good enough system to really take advantage. Most don't care. That said...many don't want to replace hundreds or thousands of CD's for something that doesn't offer more all around. If SACD were the size of a quarter, and held an artists entire collection, then yes it would survive without any problems (if the price were to be similar to that of CD's), but at this time DVD's are really taking the market on media being purchased and that said...with all the DVD players having been sold in the past few years, most don't want to buy another player to accomodate the SACD. Sad as that is.

I'm in that boat. I bought my DVD players, my pcdp's and now my main rig cdp. I don't want to have to invest in another player to get only a slight advantage over my already well recorded cds.

 

[Pepzhez]

My audio dealer did speak about this to a Sony rep with whom he has a very good relationship. As far as Sony dropping SACD in six months, the Sony rep said he is of course not privy to such top-level information (and no one outside of the Japanese Sony board would be at this point), but he doesn't expect the format to survive for very long regardless. According to him, Sony has been extremely disappointed with SACD sales (software and hardware) worldwide. Sony was really counting on the Japanese market - always the vanguard of all things new and expensive - to go wild for SACD and it's been in the main a huge flop everywhere. The Japanese market is content with old fashioned CDs and MD (still hugely popular there). Add to this a worldwide economic downturn, and you see the near impossibility of launching a new format that was fraught with marketing difficulties to begin with.

There is also a (quite understandable) reluctance amongst recording and mastering studios to make a heavy investment in DSD gear, particularly when it has not been shown to have any sonic benefits over high resolution PCM (which is readily available). On top of that, he mentioned that major chains are not interested in devoting floorspace and advertising for a format that hardly anyone knows what it is. DVD-A, he said, could be an easier sell for the mass market, as the average person knows (and likes) DVD video; "DVD" is a recognized and popular brand name/format.

The DVD consortium has also recognized the importance of computer playback ability for DVD-A - something Sony steadfastly refuses to consider for SACD. Don't underestimate the importance and necessity of this.

There are plans afoot to create dual layer redbook/DVD-A discs. If that does happen, he said (and it looks as if it will), that will be the death knell for Sony's SACD. The main advantage would be that a dual-layer CD/DVD-A would be infinitely more flexible than SACD could ever be, as the DVD layer could include everything from video to high resolution audio (or both). As far as the average consumer is concerned, this would be an attractive combination with which SACD could never hope to compete.

Sony, by the way, is well aware of this and is prepared to go with the flow. The hybrid plants mentioned on this thread are flexible; they can just as easily manufacture CDs, video DVDs, dual layer DVD-A's - whatever the market demands. They are NOT designed to manufacture SACD only - far from it. Sony may be arrogant but they are far from stupid.

I really believe that SACD was a stillborn format and will not be long for this world. DVD-A will survive in some capacity, given the number of DVD players out there and the relative flexibility of the format (particularly when a redbook layer is glued onto it - which I think will happen very soon). Of course the average consumer isn't interested in hi-rez audio (and I hold reservations about the necessity of these new formats) and probably never will be, though they might not mind having a high-rez audio layer piggybacked onto their next DVD purchase (particularly if their existing equipment is capable of playing it). Or, as they might see it, a video and higher resolution audio tacked onto their next (redbook) CD purchase.

By the way, I am NOT a cheerleader for DVD-A (or SACD, for that matter). Anyone who has read my posts knows very well my pessimism concerning these two formats. All I am saying is that SACD is dead in the water, DVD-A hasn't really been going anywhere either but does have some potential and a chance to survive, albeit in stealth form. After all, people are lining up to purchase DVD players - most of which will be capable of playing DVD-A music. Do you think they will get back in line to purchase SACD-specific equipment? And do you believe that the DVD consortium really wants to push a rival SACD format? I think not.

Obviously the rumor mentioned on this thread is ridiculous. No one would ever make an announcement to the international press that their struggling format better turn around in 6 months or else they're dropping it. If that were the case, they may as well drop it today, as such an announcemwnt would guarantee its immediate death. But if a Sony rep is this pessimistic about the future of SACD - and it really doesn't take an insider to see that it's going absolutely nowhere - then that should stop and make you take notice.

I'd guess that by this time next year, Sony will be making dual layer CDs/DVDs along with everyone else, as well as the hardware to play them on. Sony's DVD/DVD-A/CD players will undoubtedly support SACD playback for a while to come, but don't expect SACD to go anywhere beyond that.

Sony and Philips' patent license on CD technology expires in 2003, I believe. This is precisely why they have introduced SACD - in order to keep those patent royalties flowing. Their patent is also what has prevented having a CD layer on a DVD disc. I suppose that this will no longer be an issue come next year - and that is why you will be seeing dual layer CD/DVD very soon.

 

[CaptBubba]

There are cost advantages to SACD, as a DSD dac is much cheaper and simpler than a PCM dac. But PCM dacs are much more mass produced now, so they have the advantage.

Anywho, what I would love to see is something akin to the disc that Nintendo uses in the gamecube. Using blue lasers (if the lifetime of them can be increased which it will be), you could easily cram a DVD-A or SACD's worth of data into those little discs. People like small and thin. I don't think a purly digital form like mp3 will survive to become the promonet format because I just like to have something physical in my hands, and I think others do as well.

I don't think we will hear about SACD's demise until Sony has something to replace it to keep their stock from going down. Probably they will annouce DVD-A hybrids and then quietly can the SACD format while everybody is excited over the news.

 

[Anders]

Perzezh,
I am very puzzled by this format war issue. I think there are limitations in the CD format and my only wish is a better format, although there still seems to be a little bit more to be squeezed out of the CD (with expensive new DACS). If it is SACD or DVD-A or something else is not important to me if there will be good multi-format players.
What I do not understand is those people who seem to have a heavy emotional investment in this, unless they are developers or investors.
I am happy that you agreed that the initiation of the thread was based on a silly rumour. But how about the Sony rep? He said something to your dealer how then told you. Could the message be distorted on the way, especially if the final recipient wanted to hear something really bad? And what could the rep really know. Are Sony secret corporate plans of the Japanese top management forwarded to a salesman in USA?

 

[Alex Altorfer]

Really, guys. All moving media will sooner or later become extinct. The time will come when all music will be downloaded into microscopic chips far more powerful than any blue laser disc could ever be. So, are we doomed to listen to MP3 for all eternity then? Not really. A chip can hold MP3 as well as PCM or DSD or whatever format you record into it. You can hold something physical. You can hold the chip. You can download your music's promotional materials, images, lyrics, MTV videos and everything into a chip and see it on your palmtop PDA's screen. Non-moving media will hold the high resolution formats of the future. Both SACD and DVD Audio will disappear. So will redbook and DVD video.
Cheers,
Alex Altorfer