[plitter]

Hello, this is my first post here and I was wondering if someone could check out this new kickstarter and see if the specs are worth the money they are asking for it. I'm very new to trying to get high quality sound, and don't want to waste my time buying something that I can't return.
 
My problem is that I'm probably going to be researching until I feel I have a good grasp of what is out there, what is a decent price and how things work before committing to anything and there is a time limit on kickstarter. So would like to ask you guys if these headphones, from their specs are worth the price they are asking. I mean Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Black is 191 USD. So here is the link to the kickstarter page, tell me what you think https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/plpl/rock-hard-canadian-maple-headphones 
 
Additional questions:
Is wood better for sound than plastic?
With 32 ohms on the headphone what ohm do I need on the player?

 

[Claritas]

Wood will certainly change the sound, but not necessarily to one you will enjoy more. With a closed model such as COP, it's not so simple as changing the cup. You might need to mod and tune the inside considerably to obtain a result you really enjoy. So not recommended unless you're knowledgeable and patient or know someone who's willing to take on the job.

 

[plitter]

I'm not quite ready for modding, I could do slight work, but nothing major as I wouldn't know what/how/why. I'm still very new to the high(er) end scene.

What did you think about the kickstarter headphones? Do they look they are worth the 225 CAD? Or should I try some that are more affordable?

 

[davidsh]

  I'm not quite ready for modding, I could do slight work, but nothing major as I wouldn't know what/how/why. I'm still very new to the high(er) end scene.

What did you think about the kickstarter headphones? Do they look they are worth the 225 CAD? Or should I try some that are more affordable?

I see no reason they should be worth 225 CAD. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Wouldn't be surprised if the drivers are something like these: http://szhonson.en.alibaba.com/product/1518725512-218406959/40mm_32_Ohm_20mW_Copper_Ring_Titanium_Diaphragm_Headphone_Speaker_Driver.html

 

[kramer5150]

Who knows... Its anyones guess as to how the earcup geometery is tuned and the quality of the drivers used.

On a personal level i avoid pre-order sales. Id rather spend my $$$ on a proven design but thats just me.

 

[plitter]

davidsh

 I see no reason they should be worth 225 CAD. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Wouldn't be surprised if the drivers are something like these: http://szhonson.en.alibaba.com/product/1518725512-218406959/40mm_32_Ohm_20mW_Copper_Ring_Titanium_Diaphragm_Headphone_Speaker_Driver.html

 
At least its not those, dB / Hertz graph is different and max load is different. What specs would warrant 225 CAD for you? So I can get a frame of reference.

 
kramer5150

  Who knows... Its anyones guess as to how the earcup geometery is tuned and the quality of the drivers used.
On a personal level i avoid pre-order sales. Id rather spend my $$$ on a proven design but thats just me.

Personally I would too, but I don't mind taking a calculated gamble. Sometimes there is enough info to make an assumption about a product before it comes, but I don't have the know-how in this case...

 

[Beocord]

I love wooden headphones, but that thing looks like something kids make in shop class. It has cheap written all over it. Also the specs would indicate they propably use some generic crappy drivers just like davidsh said. I like the enviroment awareness thing but other than that they havo no real selling points imo

 

[plitter]

  I love wooden headphones, but that thing looks like something kids make in shop class. It has cheap written all over it. Also the specs would indicate they propably use some generic crappy drivers just like davidsh said. I like the enviroment awareness thing but other than that they havo no real selling points imo

I agree they look like something in a shop class, but from the one kid who is serious about trying to make something and wants to try things out. And then they use RCA plugs for the headphones which I think is pretty cool. I can't say I care for the headband though. I think they could have covered the two cords going over instead of just partly covering it, looks silly to me.
 
The "generic crappy driver" comment is it because of the 20 - 20kHz and 20 mW to 40mW? Or is it something else?

 

[Beocord]

40mm 32ohm driver with 20-20khz are pretty much the most common driver specifications. Not that there is anything wrong with those specifications itself. It's just how allmost all horrible cheap headphones have those specifications. It's more like that kind of frequency response has to be there for marketing purposes. If 20hz-20khz were true it would be ok, well beyond normal human hearing range. But since it is propably there for just because they had to say something it is possible that those frequencies have nothing to do with reality. It might be that there is nothing below 70hz and high frequencies fade out around 15khz for example. Most "real" headphones have more distinguishable specifications. Something like 3hz-30khz or something. On top of my head only good 20hz-20khz headphones I can think of are lower end Grados. Of course there is a change those are good headphones but at the moment I'm leaning towards to the ripping of the enviromentally conscious people who know nothing about headphones kind of thing.
 
I like the detachable dual entry cables. For user convenience most headphones have only one cable but general consensus seems to be that there is a change of sonic degradation when using one sided cable. Got me thinking that maybe those guys really are serious about these headphones. I don't like the cables though. Those look like something that come with a 10$ dvd player. Also the metal parts on the headband are a turn off. That is of course just my personal preference but with metal hinges I prefer thick beyerdynamic style not that thin "look at me I'm a cheap headphone from china look".

 

[davidsh]

Well, some serious reviews and proper measurements would make it seem credible. There's no doubt the drivers aren't made from scratch anyway, and judging from the specs they do resemble cheap titanium drivers bought in bulk, like the kind the cheap china produced headphones use, like the wesc ones for example.
But I have no way of knowing..

 

[plitter]

  40mm 32ohm driver with 20-20khz are pretty much the most common driver specifications. Not that there is anything wrong with those specifications itself. It's just how allmost all horrible cheap headphones have those specifications. It's more like that kind of frequency response has to be there for marketing purposes. If 20hz-20khz were true it would be ok, well beyond normal human hearing range. But since it is propably there for just because they had to say something it is possible that those frequencies have nothing to do with reality. It might be that there is nothing below 70hz and high frequencies fade out around 15khz for example. Most "real" headphones have more distinguishable specifications. Something like 3hz-30khz or something. On top of my head only good 20hz-20khz headphones I can think of are lower end Grados. Of course there is a change those are good headphones but at the moment I'm leaning towards to the ripping of the enviromentally conscious people who know nothing about headphones kind of thing.
 
I like the detachable dual entry cables. For user convenience most headphones have only one cable but general consensus seems to be that there is a change of sonic degradation when using one sided cable. Got me thinking that maybe those guys really are serious about these headphones. I don't like the cables though. Those look like something that come with a 10$ dvd player. Also the metal parts on the headband are a turn off. That is of course just my personal preference but with metal hinges I prefer thick beyerdynamic style not that thin "look at me I'm a cheap headphone from china look".

 
I think I am starting to lean against ripping off too. I've sent them a message asking what drivers they use, but I'm not holding my breath for an answer. Have to defend the metal part though, if you want to create a minimalist headphone I'm not sure you could do it another way. If you compare the Beyer you have picture of and the kickstarter one, you have to admit that it looks... simpler. The same with the cables although they probably did come from a surplus in the supply chain of cheap dvd players it was actually one of the first things I thought. "Hey, I bought a cable like that for the elder home that I used to work at so that the old ladies could listen to Frank Sinatra from my phone on their stereo", and its kind of nice that I can get a replacement at Clas Ohlson

Well, some serious reviews and proper measurements would make it seem credible. There's no doubt the drivers aren't made from scratch anyway, and judging from the specs they do resemble cheap titanium drivers bought in bulk, like the kind the cheap china produced headphones use, like the wesc ones for example.
But I have no way of knowing..

What other measurements would be nice to know? And I would also love for some credible reviews of it. I sent them a message about the drivers hopefully they'll answer, but I have my doubts

 

[davidsh]

Distortion measurements, waterfall plot (CSD), proper frequency response measurements, effectivity. That kind of stuff.

 

[plitter]

  Distortion measurements, waterfall plot (CSD), proper frequency response measurements, effectivity. That kind of stuff.

I'll ask. I'll be having this thread to look at when deciding future buys as well so any measurements that is relevant, just mention it. I already asked for efficency dB/mW
 
So they did answer.

  When a manufacturer gives a straight out number for efficiency (SPL in dB/mW) or sensitivity (SPL in dB/mV), it’s at 1kHz at nominal power (except stated otherwise, some will state at a given RMS voltage). Here, nominal power is 25mW. So if your goal is to compare a sensitivity number A to a sensitivity number B, make sure they are given relative to the same power (same amp, same volume setting) and weighted for the resistance. This means that it’s normal for a 300 Ohms headphone to sound a lot less loud than a 32 Ohms at the same volume setting. One is made for living room, and the other for mobile use. You can compare only if you weight power and resistance. The number only tells you how hard they are to drive to achieve a good volume. From there you can, based on fact, know to what usage they are designed (studio work, living room, mobile phone), and see if they match your needs. More sensitivity is not necessarily better.
We can suppose you are seeking for a high sensitivity number, because it only matters for restricted power when used with portable devices. So if you are searching a sensitive headphone, you found it.
No Comply is designed for the least restrictive usage: mobile use. For the No Comply, the SPL is 128db @ 1Khz sine wave when there’s 0.8 VRMS tapped, through R=32Ohms. Some manufacturers will state sensitivity at 1VRMS. So if you want it at 1kHz, for 1VRMS it will be slightly more than 128dB/mV because efficiency is not linear (you can’t just do 128*1/0.8). Also, it is not evenly equal in the frequency spectrum. Please refer to the given spectrum in the product description. We did not performed sensitivity measurement at 1VRMS through the spectrum.
All in all, beyond maths, people who tried the No Comply found there is more loudness at same volume setting than most headphones on the market.
For the drivers, we use a specific OEM driverbmade to our requirements. Because it's mostly our competitive advantage we can't tell you who is the manufacturer. If you do some searches, you will find out that other popular brand use drivers from the same supplier as us. For detailed specs, please refer to to our website lkpr.co.
We hope this answer your question.
Best
Pierre-luc and J-F

 
and they've said before that the sensitivity in their case is 128 dB +/- 5% at 1 kHz. What do you guys think about it?

 

[davidsh]

Not thinking anything specific about it.. It's a high sensitivity indeed, but that's neither good nor bad.
That's 115 dB/mW if you want to know. Somewhat comparable to the different senn and beyer on-ears.

 

[CHansen]

Hi All,
 
This is probably one of the most insightful replies I've seen regarding sensitivity measurements. These guys clearly know what they are doing and should be taken very seriously.
 
I have reservations about the use of RCA connectors for the detachable cables for a very simple, yet important reason. Specifically any balanced headphone cable designed for these headphone will be a very dangerous thing to have lying around. If anybody picks them up and uses them for anything else in the world besides these headphones, they will almost certainly damage the balanced source component.
 
Hope this helps,
Charles Hansen