[Harrath]

I use APE for all of my stuff. A+++++++, would encode again.

 

[slunk007]

Quote:

Originally posted by Harrath I use APE for all of my stuff. A+++++++, would encode again.

Is this some eBay feedback or something???

Just buggin'... but truly, I will be encoding in lossless soon... just have to decide FLAC or APE

 

[loafier]

I use APE here as well. It's very easy to make APEs with EAC

 

[Skarecrow]

I dig that FLAC is like the big brother of Vorbis (well, not really, but close) in many ways. The added fact that my DAP (Karma) plays FLAC was more enough to settle the issue for me.

 

[Distroyed]

Quote:

Originally posted by loafier I use APE here as well. It's very easy to make APEs with EAC

How does one make ape's with eac?

 

[loafier]

Check this out

http://www.ping.be/satcp/eac14.htm#-



Just download the APE software and set up EAC as shown.

 

[Textual Intercou]

Quote:

Originally posted by kyrie Well, I'm no expert on computers or computer audio, so I should retract my previous statement. All I know is that to me, FLAC or APE sounds better than the WMA lossless format. Perhaps it is a placebo effect, though I don't see how I could've been pre-biased when doing the test. It's a simple test to do - if interested, please try it yourself. I'd be interested to hear what you think. I am less inclined to respect comments by people who haven't done any tests themselves, assuming that all lossless formats sound equal.

well, although I suppose its possible that a lossless encoder/decoder has a bug in it somewhere, the more likely reason is that each software player has post-decoding effects that it uses, or even differences in the output format (although foobar2k lets you choose this so this could be ruled out).

 

[Cor]

If you're planning on using your Adcom to do the DAC step then the analogue-out quality of whatever sound-card you get is pretty much irrelevant because you won't be using it. Digital out is pretty much digital out. Either it works or it doesn't. I'm sure there are some Jitter-bugs reading this, but even they will have to admit that the differences between digital outs on high and low end cards will be highly subtle, if they exist at all!

The only thing you *might* notice is whether or not the soundcard resamples before out-putting through the S/PDIF. The Audigy2 resamples everything to a multiple of 48Khz. and there isn't much you can do about it. M-Audio and RME cards as well as a few others can output 44.1 Khz as well as a slough of other sampling rates, which means you can get bit-perfect digital pass-through. (i.e. Exactly the same bits that would come out of a CD transport) This is the way to go if you have great ears/gear or are just anal retentive.

You do need to do a couple things to get bit-perfect output though. First of all, if you're using Windows you need to use a plug-in for Winamp (or whatever player you use) that supports kernel streaming or ASIO output. If you just use the default wave-out/directsound renderer everything will go through Windows kmixer which will happily mulch everything into 48Khz regardless of how expensive your soundcard is. A great test to see if you have bit-perfect output is to try playing a DTS CD (Ech. Yes, I know they suck) on your Computer with a DTS capable decoder on the other end of the line. If you get static, resampling is occurring.

Anything you play on your machine will be converted to a PCM stream and sent over the S/PDIF, so you will be able to play Mp3's over S/PDIF on your adcom. It just has to decode PCM, or Dolby/DTS if you're playing a movie. However, as others have suggested, it may be time to go lossless. You're worrying about a lot of stuff that makes far less difference than going from lossy to lossless codecs.

The nice thing about lossless formats is that you can always convert back to the original wav's without losing a single bit of real data. If you decide to switch formats in the future, no worries! Pick one and go crazy. I actually have a mixture of both APE and FLAC files on my machine. You can use both formats simultaneously without any problems. If they don't sound *exactly* the same then either you're imagining it or there is something seriously wrong. Both formats are converted back to the original wav's "on the fly" when they are played. If you code one wav into two different lossless formats and then decode them back again and get two different wav's something is seriously wrong! The conversion between wav and a lossless format *has* to be both one-to-one and onto by definition, or it's not lossless. The only practical difference between lossless formats is the compression ratio's they achieve.

As for selecting between head-phone or speakers... If you're hooking the cans into your Adcom and your speakers as well then the switching is up the the Adcom. If you're going to hook the speakers up to the soundcard (with an amp in between?) and the cans to the Adcom, then it will depend on whatever card you get. For example, the M-Audio Revolution lets you switch in between digital-out and a head-phone jack but you would have to manually switch between the two. (The Revo has separate jacks for phones and speakers) It would not be automatic. I can't speak for any other cards.

 

[LeasingGuy]

Great stuff Cor, Thanks!

I was reading a thread over at AVS forum and came across this Quote:

I'm RETURNING the Revolution because it is the only M-Audio product that does not do ASIO via the SPDIF

He is getting the audiophile 24/96 so he wont have the resampling to 48 Khz.

Damn, I thought the Audigy 2 ZS was the solution. So what’s my bit-perfect digital output soundcard that won’t destroy my 3d gaming experience? This is not as easy as I thought it should be.

Again, many thanks to all of you.

1 more question, Is Windows Media player 9 (WMA lossless) really that bad? There are a lot of things I like about it although I have never listened to it through anything buy my $50 2.1 PC speakers...

btw, I want to use the digital out for Cans/DAC and line out for my PC speakers. I need to be able to swich between the two without going to the back of the case.

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cor the differences between digital outs on high and low end cards will be highly subtle, if they exist at all!

The difference is not subtle at all. The RME's digital out is in another class compared to Revo, AP 24/96, AP USB, and Sonica (yes I have/had them all).

LeasingGuy, the Revo still doesn't do ASIO SPDIF? That wasn't fixed in the latest drivers? You can still use kernel streaming then with foobar.

I don't like kernel streaming in winamp because it doesn't have any options.

Use 2 soundcards. Leave the Audigy 2 in there as it has the best 3D performance for gaming.

Can you play WMA9Pro lossess in anything besides WMP? If not, then use winamp or foobar and FLAC or APE.

 

[LeasingGuy]

or better yet, Can I play FLAC or APE files on WMP?

If WMP sucks, somebody just tell me. I like the WMP front end but if I need something else, please advise....

 

[Solude]

Insert 2 cents here... I had the Adcom GDA-700, I had an M-Audio Revo and now I have an Arcam CD72t but that's going a little too far.

Long story short, the Revo is better than the Adcom in all aspects except one, looks

Lossless is lossless, your player of choice uses the same hardware regardless of code so quality from one to the next before 'optional mods' will be similiar. My suggestion would be to get the best soundcard you can afford, use CDs or the highest variable rate your encoder allows and enjoy. Lossless is an option if you have a small collection or hordes of HD space. But in my case eating up 80GB with music is a little excessive.

Oh Ian, RME digital out is just as pathetic as everyone elses on a coax line. Every optical digital out is clean, every coax is pure junk. Forget if it was Tom's Hardware or Soundstage that tested it but the electrical jitter on the coax output was dumb. The optical output was pure though. So IF you use the coax out, you really need a Monarchy DIP in front of the DAC.

I'd love to know how isolated the input buffers on external soundcards are. The M-Audio Firewire option looks interesting. I would love to use the PC as my primary source but most high end solutions are based around music creation, not playback

 

[lan]

WMP doesn't support kernel streaming or ASIO so it's not really a high quality option. Switch to foobar2000 or winamp2 or 5.

Solude, I own all those soundcards and compared them all. The RME's coax was clearly better than the others. The optical of the RME is better than it's coax. And also have a GWlabs DSP which is same as Monarchy DIP.

 

[joe_cool]

As a test, I recorded the SACD stereo analog from my (modified) SACD player to 96kHz/24bit wav files using Sound Forge 6 going into my Revo. The playback through the Revo dacs and (modified) front channel outputs seemed very good, very close to the original.

WMP9 would not play the wav files so I used dBpowerAMP Music Converter (dbMC) to convert the wav files to WMA9 lossless format (still at 96/24?). I had to manually edit the tags but this works. dbMC to WMA9 lossless results in a smaller file than FLAC but it takes longer.

I am using a Gilmore amp and MDR-CD3000 phones. Comments, anyone?

 

[Edwood]

Comparing the M-Audio to the RME is not really fair. They're not in the same league here.

Errors can occur, but mine were due to bad rips on a bad hard drive. Also I found that one of my CD-rom's overheats when run alot (i.e. ripping alot of consecutive CD's) and lots of error occur.

So there's more work involved with a computer based sound system. If you only want to press one button and everything work off the bat, then computer's aren't for you.

But if you want all of your music (redbook) at a click of a mouse, rather than fumbling through a mountain of discs, then computer audio is for you.

Also, unless you've really heard it for yourself, you can't say lossless sounds worse than uncompressed.

You can theorize all you want, but it comes down to hearing for yourself. I did.

-Ed