[Atropos]

hi!
how is it possible to rip a HDCD to ape? I've read that its possible but its does not work. everytime when I play the file with winamp it shows me only 16bit and not 20bit.

 

[Davey]

HDCD is still within the redbook standard meaning that it is still 16 bit. It's the same format as any normal CD. It is only a pseudo 20 bits when decoded, and winamp doesn't have HDCD decoding, does it?

 

[Twombly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey HDCD is still within the redbook standard meaning that it is still 16 bit. It's the same format as any normal CD. It is only a pseudo 20 bits when decoded, and winamp doesn't have HDCD decoding, does it?

Yeah, your CD drive can't read the extra frequency information.

 

[rogue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twombly Yeah, your CD drive can't read the extra frequency information.

Actually, it can, but it needs special software to decode the HDCD content. AFAIK, only Windows Media Player can currently do this.

 

[Atropos]

is there anyway to determine if a ape/flac file has the HDCD bits or not without burning to CD?

 

[Davey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atropos is there anyway to determine if a ape/flac file has the HDCD bits or not without burning to CD?

Well again, just to be technically correct

, there aren't actually any HDCD bits in the file. The HDCD "instructions" are encoded at a low rate in the least significant bit of the 16-bit words. So there probably isn't any way to tell that it is a HDCD file until burned and played in a HDCD player since it looks like any other ape/flac music file, or until the data stream is uncompressed and sent to a HDCD DAC. I don't know any HDCD decoders that work with data files. Even WMP only decodes when the data path is from a CD.

 

[xixco]

^what he said. *quick head knod*

 

[evil-zen]

the easiest way is to decode the ape file and mount it using tools like daemon tools. then use wmp to play it and it should display the hdcd logo on the bottom left.

 

[s m @]

I don't know much about APE, but I can tell you that HDCD encoding survives FLAC compression intact. However, as others have said, your software is likely unable to read the 'extra' from that format. HDCD also survives MP3 encoding, from what I hear, although I don't really know how it would be affected by the lossy compression. If anyone does, I'd be curious to know.

 

[Davey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by s m @ HDCD also survives MP3 encoding, from what I hear

Hmmm, that doesn't sound right to me, but I'm not sure what you mean by "survives". AFAIK there aren't any MP3 players that feature HDCD decoding, nor was it ever mentioned in the specs. Any change in the original data will lose the encoding, such as digitally changing the volume or sample rate, or any type of lossy compression like mp3.

 

[s m @]

^^^^ I mean that if you compress via MP3 a CD or track that is HDCD encoded, and then use the MP3 to burn a regular (WAV) CD and play it (on an HDCD capable player), it will read as HDCD-encoded. As I said, in every case you'd need a player capable of reading HDCDs to know. And as far as how much the benefits of HDCD are affected by the lossy compression, I have no idea. Never had any reason to try or care b/c I don't use MP3s for much. This is actually hearsay about MP3s, but I don't doubt it b/c I know for sure that it survives FLAC compression. I could try it some time, it would be interesting, but I'm pretty sure I know what I'll find: My HDCD light will go on, but it won't sound as good.

If this doesn't sound right to you, you're not alone. I was pleasantly shocked when a downloaded FLAC (of an unreleased album, Time Fades Away) read as HDCD in my player (even though I was already informed that it was supposed to be sourced from the HDCD-encoded master), and sounds like it has the sonic benefits of HDCD intact.

Here's something somewhat related that I found interesting: Once, when I ripped an HDCD disc to WAV for myself, I listened to the WAV for some reason via EAC. It had an almost skippy chopped up sound, as if it was reading all the info on the disc somehow consecutively instead of concurrently. I thought I had a bad rip, but when I realized that the disc was HDCD, I decided to try to burn it and listen. It came out fine (and HDCD-encoded). EAC seemed to be missing the part that tells the HDCD reading chip to kick it, but wasn't passing over the extra info the way a normal player would in that case, resulting in a strange, out of sequence playback. Why exactly this happened, I have no idea. I should also mention that if you copy an HDCD disc, it always comes out with the HDCD intact, since some people might even be wondering about that.

 

[Davey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by s m @ If this doesn't sound right to you, you're not alone. I was pleasantly shocked when a downloaded FLAC (of an unreleased album, Time Fades Away) read as HDCD in my player (even though I was already informed that it was supposed to be sourced from the HDCD-encoded master), and sounds like it has the sonic benefits of HDCD intact.

But FLAC is lossless compression so it has to by definition preserve the HDCD info when uncompressed. MP3 is lossy, so the info is lost when it is compressed, and it can't magically reappear just by storing the compressed file in a PCM format to put it on a CD. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it

 

[s m @]

^^Yes, but the MP3 compression process isn't smart enough to know which bitsto take and which to pass over when applying its lossiness, ha ha. The reason I was surprised that the encoding survived either compression was that I expected that maybe the same thing that causes a regular CDP to just skip the extra info would cause the codecs to do the same. However, when I found that a regular rip to WAV keeps it intact.... it takes it all, including the indexing info that tells an equipped player to read it. It's hard to know when I only know generally how both the codec and the HDCD stuff actually work, not exactly. Oh well, it works and it sounds good...... therefore I'm happy.

 

[Davey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by s m @ The reason I was surprised that the encoding survived either compression was that I expected that maybe the same thing that causes a regular CDP to just skip the extra info would cause the codecs to do the same.

Well I am surprised about the coding surviving mp3 compression, but on the other point, as I tried to say before, the CDP doesn't skip the "extra info". HDCD is a redbook standard CD. The info is encoded in the least significant bit at a low rate and is played by a regular CDP just as if it were normal data. It just doesn't have any significant audible effect, but a HDCD digital filter looks for the code and after finding it, applies the appropriate filter algorithm per the coding. At least that's my revised story

 

[s m @]

That's interesting... it's not the way I understood it (loosely), but it actually makes a bit more sense considering the way I've found it behaves. I'm going to have to look into it some time to see how exactly the other 4 bits are linked/hidden wherever they are, I'm curious now.