[gongos]

I'm going to buy one of these and am looking for some advice. I can get a Karma for $160 w/ a 2 year warranty, or the x5 for around $260. I need a player that can play flac and will be using it in my car and while I jog. SQ is a priority for me. Which of the 2 is best option considering their price? Thanks.

 

[JeffS]

Get the Karma!

I own a Karma, and I've auditioned the X5. As far as SQ alone, I would say
that the Karma just eeks ahead of the X5. They are close enough that the
X5 is my next runner up if my Karma dies. User interface on the other hand
goes quickly to the Karma. I thought the X5 was very awkward to use and
navigate. I'm also not a fan of folder browsing, but that's a person preference
thing.

The only downside to the Karma is lack of existing and future support. It is
what it is, and will not be improved in the future. That and lack of a company
to make more of them, might make you lean towards the X5.

good luck
-Jeff

 

[luuk]

Just as jeff said,
From what I've read the karma is The audiophile mp3player.
It depends on what you want, but either way, both are great players.

 

[LFC_SL]

As Rio are bust, who picks up the warranty? Excuse me for my ignorance

 

[catachresis]

If you're willing to walk on the wild side, you should pick up the Karma and save a little money. It's great -- I bought a very used model about two months ago. I had to do minor repairs and hang with the good folks at Riolution.com to get all the ins-and-outs of installation and trouble-shooting. But I'm utterly stonked right now. The ex-girlfriend flashes her Ipod Mini 6gig and I chortle with self-satisfaction.

 

[bangraman]

Personally speaking, FLAC is a waste of time for general portable use (in terms of battery life and actual quality you'll get), jogging (ditto) and in-car use (quality vs ambient noise) but that will depend on how you feel about that. How you feel will obviously colour what you think you hear

I'm starting to store in FLAC for home use, but am building a near-real-time transcoding rig to turn that into high-bitrate MP3 for portable use.


I've been using the Karma, iRiver, X5 and iPods portably with possibly the only phone (the Sony Qualia 010) on which I've been tell a high-bitrate compressed file without reference to the original recording. Yet I still stick to high-bitrate MP3's because of the convenience, more than acceptable quality for portable use and the ability to still retain a decent battery life.


The Karma is rather overrated here in terms of sound quality and the claims of it being the most audiophile MP3 player are somewhat optimistic, but it's a fine player in the way it works. Possibly the best out there still in terms of stand-alone usage (playlisting on the player itself instead of on the PC, advanced mix features, etc). It's also ergonomically very sound. I like it.


The firmware and software (especially the software) still had some bugs to iron out, and obviously that is an issue with no further support being available. It's also not a USB Mass Storage device, so no plugging into a PC and expecting it to show up as a disc. And it is a bit of a brick compared to the X5, and in comparison with the new iPod... well, it's a bit like lining up a Sumo wrestler against Kate Moss.


Although it is a brick, I have to say that the shape is used very well and controls fall into the hand very well. Someone has really thought about how people use this. If it weren't for the various audio and functional/software bugs I might still have it. I dare say the less exacting could be happy even with those bugs.


Compared with the Karma (or the iPod), the iAudio X5 is a backward step in terms of a large-capacity music player, both in navigation and selection. But it does so much more... and if that's important will depends on whether you really use those additional features. It is however among the best of the purely USB Mass Storage players, which means all you do to add tunes is by drag & drop. This can be a pain though as your music collection increases, especially beyond the capacity of the player.


Again personally, for your use I'd say re-evaluate high-bitrate compressed files and widen your player horizons.

 

[hansel_ng]

i own an x5l, and one reason i'm very reluctant to get rid of it is because I love its radio function. Reception is very good.

I am, however, considering an red wine audio imod...i'm presently checking with Vinnie, if he'll mod my x5l.

 

[Jmmmmm]

If you are willing to risk the build quality of the karma, go for it over the x5. I currently have an x5, and I definitely like it. However, I have missed my karma ever since it broke, and I probably will for a while, until someone comes out with a player that is equal overall (GUI, capabilities, eq, sq), but probably better packaging. Unfortunately it has a number of physical weaknesses. If it's going to be a stationary player, I'd say go karma. If not, it's up to you.

 

[DougGreenberg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFC_SL As Rio are bust, who picks up the warranty? Excuse me for my ignorance

I'm wondering this as well. I recently bought a reburb Karma via Amazon.com for a comparable price. I like the unit a lot, but I've come to realize that in terms of support I'm on my own. I had a problem within a few weeks of purchase (my computer/Rio Music Manager wouldn't recognize the player), and I repeatedly contacted what's provided as Rio's support people. I got absolutely no response at all. Fortunately, I was able to figure out a solution on my own, but it made me realize that there is a certain "caveat emptor" involved in buying a product from a defunct manufacturer.

 

[LaBreaHead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmmmmm If you are willing to risk the build quality of the karma, go for it over the x5. I currently have an x5, and I definitely like it. However, I have missed my karma ever since it broke, and I probably will for a while, until someone comes out with a player that is equal overall (GUI, capabilities, eq, sq), but probably better packaging. Unfortunately it has a number of physical weaknesses. If it's going to be a stationary player, I'd say go karma. If not, it's up to you.

Interesting point, Jmmmmm. I use it, but I would like for my Karma to last for a long time, as a relic of the early DAP Age. I'm not much of a fix-it person. I just use my Karma around the house, using a Carbon and flash players on the go.

I love my Karma ... but I wouldn't even consider jogging with it. Of course, I wouldn't even consider jogging.

 

[gongos]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman Personally speaking, FLAC is a waste of time for general portable use (in terms of battery life and actual quality you'll get), jogging (ditto) and in-car use (quality vs ambient noise) but that will depend on how you feel about that. How you feel will obviously colour what you think you hear I'm starting to store in FLAC for home use, but am building a near-real-time transcoding rig to turn that into high-bitrate MP3 for portable use. I've been using the Karma, iRiver, X5 and iPods portably with possibly the only phone (the Sony Qualia 010) on which I've been tell a high-bitrate compressed file without reference to the original recording. Yet I still stick to high-bitrate MP3's because of the convenience, more than acceptable quality for portable use and the ability to still retain a decent battery life. The Karma is rather overrated here in terms of sound quality and the claims of it being the most audiophile MP3 player are somewhat optimistic, but it's a fine player in the way it works. Possibly the best out there still in terms of stand-alone usage (playlisting on the player itself instead of on the PC, advanced mix features, etc). It's also ergonomically very sound. I like it. The firmware and software (especially the software) still had some bugs to iron out, and obviously that is an issue with no further support being available. It's also not a USB Mass Storage device, so no plugging into a PC and expecting it to show up as a disc. And it is a bit of a brick compared to the X5, and in comparison with the new iPod... well, it's a bit like lining up a Sumo wrestler against Kate Moss. Although it is a brick, I have to say that the shape is used very well and controls fall into the hand very well. Someone has really thought about how people use this. If it weren't for the various audio and functional/software bugs I might still have it. I dare say the less exacting could be happy even with those bugs. Compared with the Karma (or the iPod), the iAudio X5 is a backward step in terms of a large-capacity music player, both in navigation and selection. But it does so much more... and if that's important will depends on whether you really use those additional features. It is however among the best of the purely USB Mass Storage players, which means all you do to add tunes is by drag & drop. This can be a pain though as your music collection increases, especially beyond the capacity of the player. Again personally, for your use I'd say re-evaluate high-bitrate compressed files and widen your player horizons.

Like you I have all of my music already all ready ripped to FLAC on my home computer. Do you know of a good program to encode FLAC files into high quality MP3s? The reason I'm hesitant to do all this re-encoding is because I already have 2 external 250gb+ hard drives that are about filled to capacity w/ FLAC files and don't really want to buy another one--though it's not out of the question. Obviously if I decided on MP3 files the # of DAP's I have to choose from would increase greatly.

 

[wanderman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gongos Like you I have all of my music already all ready ripped to FLAC on my home computer. Do you know of a good program to encode FLAC files into high quality MP3s? The reason I'm hesitant to do all this re-encoding is because I already have 2 external 250gb+ hard drives that are about filled to capacity w/ FLAC files and don't really want to buy another one--though it's not out of the question. Obviously if I decided on MP3 files the # of DAP's I have to choose from would increase greatly.

foobar, foobar, and foobar. It can transcode to any format and can use all the command line features used by eac. You can transcode and keep the orignals and create a new file structure on a seperate drive. If you do decide to go lossy try a variety of codecs that your devices supports. lame 3.97b2 is the latests and greates iteration of the mp3 encoder. another programs is db poweramp. You can always burn the files to an iso and, mount Image in a virtual drive drive then rip using eac burst mode.

@bangraman real-time transcoding is pretty slow. What program do you use to mange your audio? Is it that jet audio thing, or are you on foobar now?

 

[mr.karmalicious]

Features of the Karma I've come to appreciate as of late:

-Gapless (This is a huge ++++++++++++... a quarter of a second gap completely RUINS a bunch of my favorite albums, so foobar and Karma are my players of choice)
-Long Battery Life (I bought this thing... a year and a half ago? already? Still get 12+ hours out of it with high bitrate MP3s and Ogg Vorbis...es)
-EQ (My e4s are the first phones I've owned that sound awesome unEQd, but the EQ makes them so much better

)
Playlisting (Everything you could ever want... insert, append, remove, reorder, and save playlists all on the fly. RioDJ is cool, too)
-Sound (Amazing. From the iPod photos and nanos and such that I've heard, there's no comparison. I guess I like that "dynamic" sound...

)

Yeah. Remember that I haven't tried the X5, so these are just the opinions of a happy Karma owner who's tried some iPods.

 

[gongos]

The warranty for the Karma is through overstock.com.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderman foobar, foobar, and foobar. It can transcode to any format and can use all the command line features used by eac. You can transcode and keep the orignals and create a new file structure on a seperate drive. If you do decide to go lossy try a variety of codecs that your devices supports. lame 3.97b2 is the latests and greates iteration of the mp3 encoder. another programs is db poweramp. You can always burn the files to an iso and, mount Image in a virtual drive drive then rip using eac burst mode. @bangraman real-time transcoding is pretty slow. What program do you use to mange your audio? Is it that jet audio thing, or are you on foobar now?

wanderman, IMO Foobar is hugely overrated. Instead I use j.River Media Center.


Real-time transcoding is very slow... unless you like me are preparing to throw dual-processor, dual-core Opteron 270's at it. j.River natively starts two instances of LAME when prompted to transcode. I'm currently experimenting with LAME MT (multithreaded LAME) and also a friend is looking into coding a middleware scheduler for j.River which will allow me to start multiple instances of LAME depending on the number of concurrent cores/processors available. If I used LAME MT, then a dual-core, two-processor set-up works quite nicely as LAME MT works in two threads which is as said before called twice by j.River.


Using either of the above methods, I hope to go from very slow to quite slow. I chose this way because maintaining two libraries does not work in practical terms for me. If you have FLAC libraries for archival purposes only that's fine but my library is constantly being chopped and changed, and I did try and have batch transcodes / sync on a small test library. It just didn't work out the way I wanted. So the best way for me is to maintain one library and to transcode from that as necessary.


I'm also still on the lookout for distributed transcoding. Since I have two FX-55's as well on the LAN, one of which is gaming-dedicated and is hardly ever used, I figure I have quite a lot of processor power to spare.


There are issues at the moment with LAME MT which probably means I'll have to rely on the scheduler. If the scheduler is successful and when 4-way dual-core processing becomes slightly cheaper, I'll consider moving to four Opteron 870's.