[allhifi]

Indeed, the phono example is a great example. the signal is far more sensitive to even low-level noise -precisely why (I suspect) AC Regen or premium isolation transformers make a huge difference in circuit performance, but according to your words earlier, low-level circuits gain "a slight difference" ?
Again, my experience has consistently demonstrated a considerable improvement -as in "when did I get a new sound-system" difference.



WOW !

 

[allhifi]

I don’t recommend any specific power conditioner, isolation transformer, battery PSU, big capacitor banks or DC-blockers. It all depend on your power grid, preference, price break and audio gear.

For what sort of difference between them use google, it too much for me to describe here. I don’t know it all - just what has been said and written.

I bought second hand a GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO because it come at a good price and I had heard it in two real SOTA setups that Marten Audio had held (MSB Select2 et al). I have discussed pros and cons about power conditioner and power regenerators with them in the past. Then I bought my GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO I hadn’t heard Torus Power in real life. If I was looking for a mains power cleaner today I would check out their Isolation transformer first.

https://marten.se/blog/tag/gigawatt/

 

[allhifi]

articnoise: That's different. And understandable. But your original comment was , quote :

" ...... but power conditioners can be made in many different ways, using totally dissimilar kind of design and the good implemented ones are IME really good ........" .

Which meant to me you had the vital, personal experience. By suggesting I Google names of products you have no personal experience (and by extension expertise) but rather only what is "written" (or said/claimed) of the product tells passionate audiophiles absolutely nothing. That's why I asked you -your recommendations.

Let me finally say; be cautious of unproven techniques or unsubstantiated claims -made by some "power conditioning" manufacturers/merchants unable or unwilling to divulge product details. It's one thing to lose $50, yet another at $500, or $5,000. Caveat Emptor !

 

[allhifi]

I don’t recommend any specific power conditioner, isolation transformer, battery PSU, big capacitor banks or DC-blockers. It all depend on your power grid, preference, price break and audio gear.

For what sort of difference between them use google, it too much for me to describe here. I don’t know it all - just what has been said and written.

I bought second hand a GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO because it come at a good price and I had heard it in two real SOTA setups that Marten Audio had held (MSB Select2 et al). I have discussed pros and cons about power conditioner and power regenerators with them in the past. Then I bought my GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO I hadn’t heard Torus Power in real life. If I was looking for a mains power cleaner today I would check out their Isolation transformer first.

https://marten.se/blog/tag/gigawatt/

"I bought second hand a GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO because it come at a good price and I had heard it in two real SOTA setups that Marten Audio had held (MSB Select2 et al). I have discussed pros and cons about power conditioner and power regenerators with them in the past. Then I bought my GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO I hadn’t heard Torus Power in real life. If I was looking for a mains power cleaner today I would check out their Isolation transformer first."

Excellent recommendation. I appreciate your honesty.

pj

 

[allhifi]

"I bought second hand a GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO because it come at a good price and I had heard it in two real SOTA setups that Marten Audio had held (MSB Select2 et al). I have discussed pros and cons about power conditioner and power regenerators with them in the past. Then I bought my GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO I hadn’t heard Torus Power in real life. If I was looking for a mains power cleaner today I would check out their Isolation transformer first."

Excellent recommendation. I appreciate your honesty.

pj

RE: GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO.

Wow. What a beautifully executed (designed / manufactured) unit.

I don't know what it is supposed to do, or why/how, but man is that a strikingly assembled device.
That leads me to ask you : Are you happy with the unit ? How does it improve the sound ?

And, have you compared it to, say, a Torus Isolation unit ?
If so, what distinctions were drawn ?

pj

 

[Articnoise]

RE: GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO.

Wow. What a beautifully executed (designed / manufactured) unit.

I don't know what it is supposed to do, or why/how, but man is that a strikingly assembled device.
That leads me to ask you : Are you happy with the unit ? How does it improve the sound ?

And, have you compared it to, say, a Torus Isolation unit ?
If so, what distinctions were drawn ?

pj

Yes I agree GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO is beautifully built, relatively light weight and easy to use. Torus bigger Power Isolation Transformer are big (very deep) and heavy.

I use my GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO only for my audio gear and one Oehlbach - XXL Powerstation 909 for my computer. I like to keep them separated and think that it’s important to prevent one audio gear to infect another audio gear, as interference generated by one devices in an audio system can have vary serious effect on the sound. Some people clam that all audio gear should be used in one distribution list. I have tried it and it was no good (for me). A simple isolation transformation is not going to keep noise generated within the system from pollute other gear and make all kinds of leaks and ground loops. My Gigawatt has 6 outlets in 3 independent filtering branches, separated for each pair of output sockets. I need 4 independent filtering branches as I don’t want to have my streamer and DAC at the same branch as the computer or amp. I have tried.

I like my Gigawatt especially together with Powerstation 909. I’m sure that I would be just as happy with some other of the TOTAL mains power cleaners. PS Audio P10 is great as is Torus Power and Audience new stuff.

A PP like Gigawatt improve sound by take away noise. Less noise increase every audio aspect, IE better dynamic, superior clarity, improved image and definition, better bass punch, deeper bass, bigger and deeper soundstage, truer colours, richer mids, better coherence, more engaging and less fatigue sound. Good quality mains power is the most important thing IMO. In reports from shows you can often read things like the room was no good, and yes for speakers the room is essential, but equally essential is to feed clean power. Many manufacturer seems to neglect it then showing there 100 000 speaker system that sound like crap.

I have heard many of the more well-known mains power gear (not all), but not in the same system, so I cannot say exactly how one sound compared to another (and I believe what’s best in one household is not necessarily the best in another, on this near SOTA level we are talking about). I can only say which system that sounded good or not. People like Leif Mårten of Martin Audio have the time and resources to test them all, and probably have. If they choose Gigawatt to be used in their super system (that sound so great) its fine for me and my more modest setup. In some cases I have tried two PP or regenerators in the same system (mostly mid-priced PP and PG) but it’s a really difficult task to do as we need to put everything in correct phase, right filter branch and to wait for all device to warm up again, no quick A/B comparison. Very time consuming and hard to do in system that I don’t know very well.

I will and my discussion on this topic for now, but please report after you got your mains power cleaner. Am sure it going to lift your system sound to new heights.

 

[allhifi]

Yes I agree GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO is beautifully built, relatively light weight and easy to use. Torus bigger Power Isolation Transformer are big (very deep) and heavy.

I use my GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO only for my audio gear and one Oehlbach - XXL Powerstation 909 for my computer. I like to keep them separated and think that it’s important to prevent one audio gear to infect another audio gear, as interference generated by one devices in an audio system can have vary serious effect on the sound. Some people clam that all audio gear should be used in one distribution list. I have tried it and it was no good (for me). A simple isolation transformation is not going to keep noise generated within the system from pollute other gear and make all kinds of leaks and ground loops. My Gigawatt has 6 outlets in 3 independent filtering branches, separated for each pair of output sockets. I need 4 independent filtering branches as I don’t want to have my streamer and DAC at the same branch as the computer or amp. I have tried.

I like my Gigawatt especially together with Powerstation 909. I’m sure that I would be just as happy with some other of the TOTAL mains power cleaners. PS Audio P10 is great as is Torus Power and Audience new stuff.

A PP like Gigawatt improve sound by take away noise. Less noise increase every audio aspect, IE better dynamic, superior clarity, improved image and definition, better bass punch, deeper bass, bigger and deeper soundstage, truer colours, richer mids, better coherence, more engaging and less fatigue sound. Good quality mains power is the most important thing IMO. In reports from shows you can often read things like the room was no good, and yes for speakers the room is essential, but equally essential is to feed clean power. Many manufacturer seems to neglect it then showing there 100 000 speaker system that sound like crap.

I have heard many of the more well-known mains power gear (not all), but not in the same system, so I cannot say exactly how one sound compared to another (and I believe what’s best in one household is not necessarily the best in another, on this near SOTA level we are talking about). I can only say which system that sounded good or not. People like Leif Mårten of Martin Audio have the time and resources to test them all, and probably have. If they choose Gigawatt to be used in their super system (that sound so great) its fine for me and my more modest setup. In some cases I have tried two PP or regenerators in the same system (mostly mid-priced PP and PG) but it’s a really difficult task to do as we need to put everything in correct phase, right filter branch and to wait for all device to warm up again, no quick A/B comparison. Very time consuming and hard to do in system that I don’t know very well.

I will and my discussion on this topic for now, but please report after you got your mains power cleaner. Am sure it going to lift your system sound to new heights.

articnoise: Excellent explanation.

The overriding concern here is the impact 'dirty' AC power has on high resolution circuits. For those contemplating the investment, the audible effects should be clear and consistent, if not dramatic. Assuming of course, one considers recognized implementations; glorified power bars need not apply -although, a quality, no-nonsense power-bar can be influential.

For those who can afford more esoteric designs, the more power to them. Yet, as you stated earlier, a fine start would be isolations transformers from Equi-tech (Symmetrical/Balanced), Torus, Bryston (SE) and others. If one considers second-hand examples, substantial savings can be realized. I am always drawn to the least expensive solution -one reason simply that greater numbers of passionate listener's can partake in the improvements generated.

A final, parting thought; users of Isolation transformers and/or AC re-generation devices reveal consistent results over decades of day-after-day use. I'm not confident that early Shunyata (and similar "conditioners") users share the same sentiments with current product offerings. That is a telling difference between tried and true, and 'experimental' offerings. (P.S. I respect Shunyata, its people and products).
So, unless it's (new technology) repeatedly shown to be far superior to conventional (but proven) offerings, look to the least expensive, quality manufactured devices.

peter jasz

 

[allhifi]

Yes I agree GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO is beautifully built, relatively light weight and easy to use. Torus bigger Power Isolation Transformer are big (very deep) and heavy.

I use my GigaWatt PC3 SE EVO only for my audio gear and one Oehlbach - XXL Powerstation 909 for my computer. I like to keep them separated and think that it’s important to prevent one audio gear to infect another audio gear, as interference generated by one devices in an audio system can have vary serious effect on the sound. Some people clam that all audio gear should be used in one distribution list. I have tried it and it was no good (for me). A simple isolation transformation is not going to keep noise generated within the system from pollute other gear and make all kinds of leaks and ground loops. My Gigawatt has 6 outlets in 3 independent filtering branches, separated for each pair of output sockets. I need 4 independent filtering branches as I don’t want to have my streamer and DAC at the same branch as the computer or amp. I have tried.

I like my Gigawatt especially together with Powerstation 909. I’m sure that I would be just as happy with some other of the TOTAL mains power cleaners. PS Audio P10 is great as is Torus Power and Audience new stuff.

A PP like Gigawatt improve sound by take away noise. Less noise increase every audio aspect, IE better dynamic, superior clarity, improved image and definition, better bass punch, deeper bass, bigger and deeper soundstage, truer colours, richer mids, better coherence, more engaging and less fatigue sound. Good quality mains power is the most important thing IMO. In reports from shows you can often read things like the room was no good, and yes for speakers the room is essential, but equally essential is to feed clean power. Many manufacturer seems to neglect it then showing there 100 000 speaker system that sound like crap.

I have heard many of the more well-known mains power gear (not all), but not in the same system, so I cannot say exactly how one sound compared to another (and I believe what’s best in one household is not necessarily the best in another, on this near SOTA level we are talking about). I can only say which system that sounded good or not. People like Leif Mårten of Martin Audio have the time and resources to test them all, and probably have. If they choose Gigawatt to be used in their super system (that sound so great) its fine for me and my more modest setup. In some cases I have tried two PP or regenerators in the same system (mostly mid-priced PP and PG) but it’s a really difficult task to do as we need to put everything in correct phase, right filter branch and to wait for all device to warm up again, no quick A/B comparison. Very time consuming and hard to do in system that I don’t know very well.

I will and my discussion on this topic for now, but please report after you got your mains power cleaner. Am sure it going to lift your system sound to new heights.

articnoise: I also searched the Oehlbach PS-909 (you refered to): http://www.oehlbach.com/en/detail/index/sArticle/30

Of particular interest to me concerns the following (taken from website linked above):

"The Powerstation 909 possesses phase marks at each individual plug socket and the correct connections are indicated by a red control lamp in order to ensure that the equipment´s phases are properly connected. This is the only way to effectively prevent potential-equalization currents from interfering with audio and image data."
(Admittedly, to me, this is no different than plugging all related equipment and peripherals in the same power-bar -other than without using Oehlbach's "fancier" language.)

This is VERY interesting. Similarly, (to my understanding) is that a typical North American household electrical panel also has both positive and negative "phase" circuits -every other "breaker/fuse" constitutes in/out (opposite) phase legs. The idea here to be to connect noisy rooms/AC outlets/appliances on one "phase", and sensitive electronics/rooms on the other.

With that said, does it (Oehlbach - XXL Powerstation 909) constitute a $1,000. unit ??. Or even $500. ? I say no. Find an el-cheapo, used isolation transformer (perhaps bolt it together yourself?) or 200-300 watt new one and be done with it.

The beauty here (and that of Iso. tranny's in general) is that the load is physically separate from the AC input, effectively neutralizing any "backwash" (electrical noise) from re-entering the mains -that otherwise would introduce additional noise into other circuits operating on the same line, or indeed the entire household.

Caveat emptor, my friends ...

pj

 

[Whazzzup]

lets bring it down to earth a bit. I run roon core on an external server, i want a music visualizer, i hear that g force can work, anyone have experience using the iMac as roon remote, how does it work without use of a mic and using a dac.

 

[allhifi]

lets bring it down to earth a bit. I run roon core on an external server, i want a music visualizer, i hear that g force can work, anyone have experience using the iMac as roon remote, how does it work without use of a mic and using a dac.

Fair enough. But, if the following is " bringing it down to Earth ", that's too funny.

Example: " I run roon core on an external server, i want a music visualizer, i hear that g force can work, anyone have experience using the iMac as roon remote"

.... And I thought vinyl records/analog talk would be earth-like talk ! lol

pj

 

[Whazzzup]

Fair enough. But, if the following is " bringing it down to Earth ", that's too funny.

Example: " I run roon core on an external server, i want a music visualizer, i hear that g force can work, anyone have experience using the iMac as roon remote"

.... And I thought vinyl records/analog talk would be earth-like talk ! lol

pj

 

[allhifi]

What a GREAT photo/video ! .... I'm still laughing. Brilliant.

pj

 

[STR-1]

Does anyone have experience with the latest generation of servers from Innuos and Melco, and can comment on how they compare with one or more of the servers romaz considered at the start of this thread?

I heard the Innuos Zenith SE compared with the standard Zenith at a show last week and there was a clear improvement with the SE - deeper, quieter, more solid and more refined. I am trying to get a loan of the SE before all one hundred of this limited edition are taken, and would also like to hear it compared to the even more expensive Melco N1ZS20/2.

I am assuming the sound quality of the latest servers has improved on many of the servers commented on by romaz, but would be good to hear the views of others. Cheers

 

[Charnwood]

I took delivery of the Innuos Zenith SE last week and mine is number 27. I ordered mine from Innuos about a month ago.

 

[Clive101]

Does anyone have experience with the latest generation of servers from Innuos and Melco, and can comment on how they compare with one or more of the servers romaz considered at the start of this thread?

I heard the Innuos Zenith SE compared with the standard Zenith at a show last week and there was a clear improvement with the SE - deeper, quieter, more solid and more refined. I am trying to get a loan of the SE before all one hundred of this limited edition are taken, and would also like to hear it compared to the even more expensive Melco N1ZS20/2.

I am assuming the sound quality of the latest servers has improved on many of the servers commented on by romaz, but would be good to hear the views of others. Cheers

Yes I have the same question any info would be welcome.
I think the SE has a better power supply hence the extra SQ, I have a good power source so wondered if the SE would be worth the extra send.
I am looking to upgrade and also have the Melco version 2 as a contender as well and will be booking a demo of all three in the near future.