[Crom]

Right, on a  keyboard now:
 
My old set up was clock crazy:
 
Dual PC setup to use with JPLAY (1 audio PC and 1 control PC)
- Supermicro server motherboards used with ECC RAM
- On audio PC 2 x motherboard crystals replaced with separately powered oscillators then upgraded to http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=36
- On both PCs: Compact flash to SATA adapter card - replaced crystal with separately powered oscillator
- USB output card: replaced crystal with separately powered oscillator then upgraded to http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=36
- Everything individually powered by Paul Hynes regs (even powering the RAM separately).
 
...but then I replaced this with an uRendu and haven't looked back.
 
Definitely worth replacing the stock clocks!
 
In my DAC I've replaced the clocks and gradually upgraded to now use a couple of Pulsar clocks: http://www.pulsarclock.com/Clock.html

 

[TheAttorney]

Originally Posted by romaz /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
... More recently, SOtM has come out with their new super clock board, the sCLK-EX...... Of course, this begs the question of whether a single box server could be created that could compete with the combination of a server + lightweight endpoint like an sMS-200 Ultra or dX-USB HD Ultra and my opinion at this time is that it's not possible.

You know how I hate the proliferation of little boxes, so I'm only going to go for one super clock, in which case where do you think is the best place for that clock?
I'm assuming it would be the one inside the SMS-200 Ultra.
 
I realise it's largely pointless trying to apply scientific logic and common sense to high end audio, but nevertheless I can't see how adding something like a dX-USB HD Ultra between SMS-200 Ultra and DAC could make much difference. I mean you've just super clocked the signal and then you go and super clock it immediately afterwards - when there is no functional component in between that requires clocking! Or at least no functional component that couldn't have just been added inside the SMS-200 Ultra in the first place.    
 
On a different note, I see that Doc has the DCS Rossini on his to-listen-list. I've now heard 2 UK dealers (that sell both Chord and DCS) say that the Rossini sounds wonderful and quite unlike the "analytical" reputation that DCS products seems to have. This also has a super clock option, albeit at a much higher price of £5k+, And this and the new DCS bridge streamer thingy are now Roon Ready. Which I think confirms my view that (a) Roon are truly in it for long haul success and (b) More well known brands are getting in on this networking/Server End Point approach to high end audio. I'm not that tempted because this little lot will still cost much more than a Dave/SOtM based solution - even after added a Blu-2 to the Dave package. But interesting nevertheless.       

 

[romaz]

Hi Romaz, I thought I'd chip in as I went down the mad clock route some time ago. When I'm not trying to type on a cellphone I'll explain my setup. In the meantime, do you know whether the SMS-200 ultra will act as an hqplayer naa. I'm assuming that it will act as a roon endpoint.

 
Yes, the sMS-200 (both standard and Ultra) can function as HQP NAAs.

 

[romaz]

  Right, on a  keyboard now:
 
My old set up was clock crazy:
 
Dual PC setup to use with JPLAY (1 audio PC and 1 control PC)
- Supermicro server motherboards used with ECC RAM
- On audio PC 2 x motherboard crystals replaced with separately powered oscillators then upgraded to http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=36
- On both PCs: Compact flash to SATA adapter card - replaced crystal with separately powered oscillator
- USB output card: replaced crystal with separately powered oscillator then upgraded to http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=36
- Everything individually powered by Paul Hynes regs (even powering the RAM separately).
 
...but then I replaced this with an uRendu and haven't looked back.
 
Definitely worth replacing the stock clocks!
 
In my DAC I've replaced the clocks and gradually upgraded to now use a couple of Pulsar clocks: http://www.pulsarclock.com/Clock.html

 
I like what you've done and I am currently looking to separately power my RAM.  Paul Hynes believes he can build me a very high quality 1.5V PSU for specifically this purpose.  It is amazing how noisy RAM is and how much better 2GB of RAM sounds compared to 4 or 8GB or RAM.  
 
When I first got my microRendu, it seemed as if the source that fed it no longer mattered.  Even Chris Connaker suggested the same thing and so I went with it.  However, with this direct connection from server to endpoint (without the router in the chain), all of a sudden, the source matters again and in a big way and so this "direct connection" can be both a blessing and a curse depending on how good your server is.

 

[romaz]

  You know how I hate the proliferation of little boxes, so I'm only going to go for one super clock, in which case where do you think is the best place for that clock?
I'm assuming it would be the one inside the SMS-200 Ultra.
 
I realise it's largely pointless trying to apply scientific logic and common sense to high end audio, but nevertheless I can't see how adding something like a dX-USB HD Ultra between SMS-200 Ultra and DAC could make much difference. I mean you've just super clocked the signal and then you go and super clock it immediately afterwards - when there is no functional component in between that requires clocking! Or at least no functional component that couldn't have just been added inside the SMS-200 Ultra in the first place.    
 
On a different note, I see that Doc has the DCS Rossini on his to-listen-list. I've now heard 2 UK dealers (that sell both Chord and DCS) say that the Rossini sounds wonderful and quite unlike the "analytical" reputation that DCS products seems to have. This also has a super clock option, albeit at a much higher price of £5k+, And this and the new DCS bridge streamer thingy are now Roon Ready. Which I think confirms my view that (a) Roon are truly in it for long haul success and (b) More well known brands are getting in on this networking/Server End Point approach to high end audio. I'm not that tempted because this little lot will still cost much more than a Dave/SOtM based solution - even after added a Blu-2 to the Dave package. But interesting nevertheless.       

 
I value simplicity as well.  With my new server and with its LAN board reclocked, I expect to go direct from server to sMS-200 Ultra with nothing in between (meaning my reclocking switch will be removed).
 
The dX-USB HD Ultra is an interesting story.  As you know, I explored it only because I thought that Blu 2 would only have a SPDIF input and so that was the intention for exploring it.  As we now know, Blu 2 will have a USB input but since I now own the dX-USB HD Ultra and since it nicely improved SQ further, I find it hard not to want to use it.  To be honest, however, a good portion of the improvement I am hearing with the dX-USB HD Ultra is my ability to be able to use a High Fidelity Cables CT-1 Ultimate Reference digital SPDIF cable.
 
If you wanted to go with one superclock, I would suggest the sMS-200 Ultra.  The bump in SQ is greatest here.
 
Regarding Roon, I agree, it's here to stay and you no longer need to make excuses to use it.  In my most recent comparisons, I now find it to be my best sounding music player by a considerable margin.  Just yesterday, Phil Hobi also announced that he has figured out a way to allow RoonServer to operate in Core mode in both Windows Server 2012 and 2016.  This is HUGE.
 
As for the dCS Rossini, I haven't heard it for myself.  I actually liked the Vivaldi 2 very much.  It images better than any DAC I have heard including DAVE but I believe that could change once M-scaler comes out.  With its upsampler, you have the choice of upsampling to PCM (more mechanical) or to DSD (softer details) and so you have options depending on your tastes but with respect to detail retrieval, it couldn't compete with DAVE.

 

[izzard1982]

  When I first got my microRendu, it seemed as if the source that fed it no longer mattered.  Even Chris Connaker suggested the same thing and so I went with it.  However, with this direct connection from server to endpoint (without the router in the chain), all of a sudden, the source matters again and in a big way and so this "direct connection" can be both a blessing and a curse depending on how good your server is.

I too have found this is the case for microRendu which is super sensitive to the upstream quality. Long story short, after some experiments, I have settled with a Antipodes server which sounds great in comparison (also with reduced box count). When using with DAVE, this is my ranking from bad to good (using Roon): mR+ifi+Network Switch -> mR+ifi direct to router, no switch -> mR+LPS1, no switch -> Laptop usb output direct to DAVE -> Antipodes server to DAVE. 

 

[romaz]

  I too have found this is the case for microRendu which is super sensitive to the upstream quality. Long story short, after some experiments, I have settled with a Antipodes server which sounds great in comparison (also with reduced box count). When using with DAVE, this is my ranking from bad to good (using Roon): mR+ifi+Network Switch -> mR+ifi direct to router, no switch -> mR+LPS1, no switch -> Laptop usb output direct to DAVE -> Antipodes server to DAVE. 

 
I found the latest Gen 2 version of the Antipodes DX to be superb.

 

[DocSkeekmo]

Romaz - where can I get the SMS-200 Ultra version? I don't see it on the web site. And does that come fully loaded with clock and all, or do I need any other product of theirs? Also, where can I buy a Paul Hynes SR7? And what specific outputs, voltage, amperage would I need? Are all the power cord umbilicals included? I see the lower SR power supplies on his web site, but not the mighty SR7. Any suggestions for specific configuration?

If the investment is not prohibitive I'd like to acquire all of this and compare to my current sources.

And out of curiosity, any experience with the Waversa Hub?

And what CAT 5/6/7 cable is currently the top choice here?

And I need to clarify regarding Ethernet network setup....

I just ordered a NETGEAR GS105NA 5-Port Gigabit Ethernet Network Switch, to bring into my audio room and run the house-run grade CAT6 into it. I was intending on bringing my Mac Mini back into my listening room and running the Mini, the DAC (ODSX with built in Ethernet rendered), my borrowed Aurender N10 and the mR (or SMS-200 ultra) off of the GS105NA switch using the top tier CAT you suggest. If I do this, does the quality of the run coming into my room matter? And I know several people talk about how much better optical Ethernet is (assuming because of the additional isolation). Would I implement that in my "in-room" setup? Or do I leave my Mac Mini in my external Ethernet closet (where is is now) and keep the new switch out there as well and run 3 or 4 optical runs into my listening room?

 

[DocSkeekmo]

I found the latest Gen 2 version of the Antipodes DX to be superb.

I'll see if I can get my hands on an upgraded version to audition. I still got the feeling that Romaz felt that the best sounding truly dedicated server was the CAD CAT though. Even comparing the U1, DX, and N10.

 

[HeeBroG]

Yes, this is what I'm saying.  During a head-to-head comparison against the microRendu, the person who owned the U1 was surprised as well.  He eventually sold his U1 and moved onto the microRendu although having now heard my sMS-200 Ultra, which we both agreed is a whole other step above the microRendu, he is waiting for the official release of this endpoint next month before moving to it.  But when I say good linear power supply, I am referring specifically to my Paul Hynes SR7.  This is what makes it all go.  I can't speak for other supplies people may try but in comparison to other supplies I have on hand from HDPlex, Teradak, Paul Pang, Kenneth Lau, a variety of battery supplies I've put together, and even my Uptone LPS-1, the SR7 leapfrogs them all.  To build an SR7-level PSU to supply a power hungry ATX motherboard would probably cost >$4k which is why I say it would be hard for most large servers to compete with a small endpoint like an sMS-200 which is so much easier to power well.  

Considering the price of a Lumin U1 ($5,900), I could purchase the new improved sMS-200 Ultra ($1.3k), a modified Mac Mini with MMK upgrade ($800), and a dual-rail Paul Hynes SR7 with his upgraded ultra low impedance connectors ($1.5k) to power both the Mac Mini and sMS-200 Ultra.  With the $2,300 I'd have left over in change compared to the cost of the U1, I could also buy the soon to be released Chord Hugo 2, a DAC I call the "mini DAVE" and is the 2nd best DAC I have personally experienced.  

Hi Romaz,

How much better is the sMS-200 Ultra compared with the standard sMS-200?
Do you think if one had the latter it's worth the upgrade?

 

[yellowblue]

I really liked the improvements I got when using the new Aqvox switch with the MicroRendu. I got an overall smoother sound with "magical midths" and huge soundstage (and no detail lost).
Silent PC AO, Process Lasso (with MCRU 18V LPS) > Supra CAT 8 > Aqvox switch > Sablon CAT 6 > MicroRendu (with LPS-1) > CAT USB cabe > Chord Dave > Focal Utopia
 
But you have to take into account that the Aqvox switch comes with a very good 230V power supply (not 110V).

 

[TheAttorney]

When using with DAVE, this is my ranking from bad to good (using Roon): mR+ifi+Network Switch -> mR+ifi direct to router, no switch -> mR+LPS1, no switch -> Laptop usb output direct to DAVE -> Antipodes server to DAVE. 

I don't quite follow this. Are you sayimg that Laptop direct USB cable to DAVE sounds better than having an mR inserted (and using Roon Ready) in between? This would be great in reducing box count and cost, but is so not what I hear..
 

Originally Posted by yellowblue /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I really liked the improvements I got when using the new Aqvox switch with the MicroRendu. I got an overall smoother sound with "magical midths" and huge soundstage (and no detail lost).
Silent PC AO, Process Lasso (with MCRU 18V LPS) > Supra CAT 8 > Aqvox switch > Sablon CAT 6 > MicroRendu (with LPS-1) > CAT USB cabe > Chord Dave > Focal Utopia

I'm not quite following this either . Are you saying that inserting an Aqvox switch sounds better than no switch at all in the signal path?

 

[yellowblue]

  I'm not quite following this either . Are you saying that inserting an Aqvox switch sounds better than no switch at all in the signal path?

Yes, that´s what I am saying. The signal will be reclocked (Aqvox won´t tell me what else they do with the signal) and som magic is added. The difference is not subtle. Roy and others have also good experiences with switches in the signal path.

 

[izzard1982]

  I don't quite follow this. Are you sayimg that Laptop direct USB cable to DAVE sounds better than having an mR inserted (and using Roon Ready) in between? This would be great in reducing box count and cost, but is so not what I hear..

I know it's a bit counter intuitive but it's the conclusion I have drawn. With the mR in my system, although the clarity and separation was good, but it sounded edgy and glassy and fatiguing, to use an analogy from AQ Nighthawk's marketing material, with the mR, the sound was like an over-sharpened photo, it has a lot of details but not nature. In contrast, with the the direct connection from laptop to DAVE, the sound was a lot more nature and balanced, and music became more enjoyable.

 

[Crom]

 I like what you've done and I am currently looking to separately power my RAM.  Paul Hynes believes he can build me a very high quality 1.5V PSU for specifically this purpose.  It is amazing how noisy RAM is and how much better 2GB of RAM sounds compared to 4 or 8GB or RAM.

 
 
interesting - I know you will notice the difference.
 
I've been looking at the SOTM sMS-200. Can you tell me whether the Ultra is based on the same main board as the standard 200 (but obviously with the addition of the clock board). Or, whether they have re-designed the main board itself?