[romaz]

   
why "a second network port, bridged with the other network port" ?  what will be the purpose of this 2nd port ?

This is the reason, Bertrand.  
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/novel-way-massively-improve-sq-sms-200-and-microrendu-31110/#post618454

 

[bmichels]

  This is the reason, Bertrand.  
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/novel-way-massively-improve-sq-sms-200-and-microrendu-31110/#post618454

 
Thanks a lot.  very interesting.

 

[TheAttorney]

After trying the direct bridge method for a while, the SQ differences haven't been as OMG as I had hoped. But in parallel, I've also been burning in my new HEK V2 headphones and, for the first time that I've noticed with headphones, these seem to change quite a lot with burn-in. I've also been trying the free Fidelizer app, which seems to make a difference, but I've not yet been able to confidently quantify how much of any of this is just my imagination, My system needs to settle down a bit more.
 
I did find the following quite interesting though: After making the ethernet-wifi bridge and started playing Roon direct to mR via ethernet, I then switched off the router and set my laptop to airplane mode. So absolutely no wifi or routing in the system at all. This along with Fidelizer has given me the best SQ yet out of my HEK V2's. But I don't know how much of that is to do with the direct bridge, or router off altogether, or Fidelizer. Time will tell on that one.
 
With my router off, Roon will continue to play music, even after Roon is stopped and restarted - i.e. once the router has set the IP address for mR, the router has no further value in this mode. This is how I will leave my system for the near future. Obviously, I'll have to think again if I ever add Tidal etc.
Not surprisingly, if I disconnect the ethernet cable, the IP link is broken and I need the router again to allocate the IP address. How I wish mR or SOtM would (re)enable static IP addressing! 

 

[romaz]

  After trying the direct bridge method for a while, the SQ differences haven't been as OMG as I had hoped. But in parallel, I've also been burning in my new HEK V2 headphones and, for the first time that I've noticed with headphones, these seem to change quite a lot with burn-in. I've also been trying the free Fidelizer app, which seems to make a difference, but I've not yet been able to confidently quantify how much of any of this is just my imagination, My system needs to settle down a bit more.
 
I did find the following quite interesting though: After making the ethernet-wifi bridge and started playing Roon direct to mR via ethernet, I then switched off the router and set my laptop to airplane mode. So absolutely no wifi or routing in the system at all. This along with Fidelizer has given me the best SQ yet out of my HEK V2's. But I don't know how much of that is to do with the direct bridge, or router off altogether, or Fidelizer. Time will tell on that one.
 
With my router off, Roon will continue to play music, even after Roon is stopped and restarted - i.e. once the router has set the IP address for mR, the router has no further value in this mode. This is how I will leave my system for the near future. Obviously, I'll have to think again if I ever add Tidal etc.
Not surprisingly, if I disconnect the ethernet cable, the IP link is broken and I need the router again to allocate the IP address. How I wish mR or SOtM would (re)enable static IP addressing! 

Thanks for sharing your experience.  It will be interesting to know your opinion over time.  I have tried disconnecting the router and didn't notice a change for the better or worse but eventually, my DHCP lease would time out and I would have to start over.  I own Fidelizer Pro and I have found it to make a difference but in my system, this difference is small.  I am now playing with Windows Server 2012 R2 Essentials and once I get the bridge working, I will try AO in Minimal Server mode.  We'll see what that brings.

 

[yellowblue]

I succeded to bridge my new "Silent PC" which came with two Ethernet ports (I posted a link before) and is powered by a MCRU 18V LPS. Expecting Roon 1.3 coming soon I skipped installing HQplayer. The only problem was to get Windows 10 to access my Synology-NAS. But after feeding in the network path manually and force Windows to give access it began to work. Fidelizer gives a little benefit in sound.
 
But I never expected that the bridging would add so much clarity to my system. So much in fact that I first need to get used to it ( a little brain burn-in will help). But no brightness at all. Just like a curtain that lifts from the singers voice. 
 
I have to admit that I used my noisy Home-PC as Roon-core before (hoping that it wouldn´t affect the sound of my MicroRendu so much). So the improvement may be bigger for me than for others.
Once again, thank you, Roy!

 

[TheAttorney]

SGC have a new more powerful i7 variant of their transporter, to handle Roon 1.3's new DSP features, Link below. Quite a bit more expensive than the i5 model, but should be able to handle anything now, and also has 2 Ethernet sockets (not stated if these are bridgeable). With the option of internal SSDs for the music files, so no moving parts whatsoever, this is probably top of my list for a dedicated server at a sensible price. 
 
https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/custom-units/products/sonictransporter-i7-for-roon-1-3-dsp
 
I'm getting on really well with Roon 1.3's new parametric EQ. very effective and no obvious down side to SQ (that I can tell so far). Yet to fully try out it's configurable headphones cross-feed feature, but so far this Bauer-style cross-feed seems to be equivalent to the DAVE DAC's  cross-feed, which is a good thing. So no regrets in previously buying the Roon lifetime license. I'm getting on so well with this running on my Windows laptop, I'm not even sure I need to migrate to a dedicated server (as was my original intension). 
 
The key thing will be if there is a SQ reason for doing so (in the mR / direct bridge world). Because there are quite a few advantages to having all my music files, all my music apps, and all the UI held in a single, tiny, laptop that I can take anywhere with me (and do all my email, games and spread sheets etc, etc as well).    
 
. 

 

[romaz]

  SGC have a new more powerful i7 variant of their transporter, to handle Roon 1.3's new DSP features, Link below. Quite a bit more expensive than the i5 model, but should be able to handle anything now, and also has 2 Ethernet sockets (not stated if these are bridgeable). With the option of internal SSDs for the music files, so no moving parts whatsoever, this is probably top of my list for a dedicated server at a sensible price. 
 
https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/custom-units/products/sonictransporter-i7-for-roon-1-3-dsp
 
I'm getting on really well with Roon 1.3's new parametric EQ. very effective and no obvious down side to SQ (that I can tell so far). Yet to fully try out it's configurable headphones cross-feed feature, but so far this Bauer-style cross-feed seems to be equivalent to the DAVE DAC's  cross-feed, which is a good thing. So no regrets in previously buying the Roon lifetime license. I'm getting on so well with this running on my Windows laptop, I'm not even sure I need to migrate to a dedicated server (as was my original intension). 
 
The key thing will be if there is a SQ reason for doing so (in the mR / direct bridge world). Because there are quite a few advantages to having all my music files, all my music apps, and all the UI held in a single, tiny, laptop that I can take anywhere with me (and do all my email, games and spread sheets etc, etc as well).    
 
. 

I think this new transport ticks many of the right boxes for me also and if I was starting from scratch, this would be a nice turnkey solution.  Andrew specifically chose a mobo with dual NICs with the intention of bridging and the OS now resides on an M.2 SSD (instead of a SATA SSD) which is a good way to go.  The only downside for me is that it requires a 19V PSU to power it and would require me to buy a new Paul Hynes SR7.  As far as I am concerned, it is still the Paul Hynes PSU that makes it all go.
 
The other nice thing about this machine is that it allows you to install Windows Server 2012R2 Essentials + Audiophile Optimizer (AO).  AO has different sound signatures and digital filter options that range from a very detailed and precise sound to a warmer, smoother and more "tube-like" sound for those who wish to achieve a certain balance in their system and with this "direct" connection, the differences are all the more notable.  With my microRendu specifically, because it has a more diffuse, less detailed sound compared to my sMS-200 (probably due to an inferior clock), I have found the more precise and detailed sound signature to benefit it greatly.  What is interesting is these sound changes occur based purely on how the CPU and RAM are utilized and so the stream remains completely bit-perfect.  If there is anyone that ever doubted that 2 bit-perfect sources could sound different (even with the Chord DAVE), I think these signatures/filters are direct proof against the theory.  Even though digital is about 1s and 0s, its transmission has very analog characteristics and how these bits are handled/streamed can have a direct impact on the presentation.
 
I completely agree with you about Roon 1.3.  This new upgrade is wonderful.

 

[AFWannabe]

New server line with models with dual Ethernet ports (from the description bridged by default), linear power supplies, option to have Roon installed,...:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/02/get-innuos-music-serverstreamers-at-norddeutsche-hifi-tage-2017/

 

[REXNFX]

New server line with models with dual Ethernet ports (from the description bridged by default), linear power supplies, option to have Roon installed,...:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/02/get-innuos-music-serverstreamers-at-norddeutsche-hifi-tage-2017/

 
Yes has a rave review here:http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/innuos-zen-mkii-network-server
 
But @romaz has tried many servers and prefers the streamer option. What is not clear to me is whether romaz has compared server plus ultimate USB tweaks ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/829639/usb-strikes-back-watch-out-aoip-usb-ethernet-chain-beats-all-at-least-for-me  ) versus streamer?

 

[romaz]

   
Yes has a rave review here:http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/innuos-zen-mkii-network-server
 
But @romaz has tried many servers and prefers the streamer option. What is not clear to me is whether romaz has compared server plus ultimate USB tweaks ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/829639/usb-strikes-back-watch-out-aoip-usb-ethernet-chain-beats-all-at-least-for-me  ) versus streamer?

Lots of new things coming out which is why it doesn't make sense to buy anything too expensive or not upgradeable.  It's possible that next year, we'll be upgrading again.  I do prefer a modular setup where I can make changes at various points as opposed to an all-in-one or integrated approach.
 
I've been through that thread and I'm intrigued by it.  I think some pioneering things are being done by some respectable audiophiles, however, the USB tweaks seem to obsess over noise isolation whereas I have not found this to be that big of a factor with the Chord DAVE and its floating USB implementation.  My focus these days is more on low impedance, clocking and simplifying the chain.

 

[nepherte]

Before buying powerful hardware so you can apply all sorts of DSP (such as with Roon 1.3), I find that things like upsampling provides mixed results. Sometimes I find that upsampling sounds better, but more often, sending the music as is sounds much better. I find that it highly depends on a) the DAC and b) the type of music (e.g. all eletronic music I upsampled just sucked).

 

[Johnny Moondog]

  Andrew specifically chose a mobo with dual NICs with the intention of bridging and the OS now resides on an M.2 SSD (instead of a SATA SSD) which is a good way to go.  The only downside for me is that it requires a 19V PSU to power it and would require me to buy a new Paul Hynes SR7.  As far as I am concerned, it is still the Paul Hynes PSU that makes it all go.

Am seriously considering this sonicTransporter. I'd contacted Andrew last year to inquire about getting a customized version of the sonicTransporter AP (without the optical drive/slot, and upgrading some of the specs) but never followed through on it.
 
Some questions...
 
1) So the bridging technique you've explored is possible with this sonicTransporter?
 
2) Is the Paul Hynes SR7 available? I couldn't find anything about it on his website.

 

[romaz]

  Am seriously considering this sonicTransporter. I'd contacted Andrew last year to inquire about getting a customized version of the sonicTransporter AP (without the optical drive/slot, and upgrading some of the specs) but never followed through on it.
 
Some questions...
 
1) So the bridging technique you've explored is possible with this sonicTransporter?
 
2) Is the Paul Hynes SR7 available? I couldn't find anything about it on his website.

Yes, the bridging technique will work with this specific sonicTransporter because it runs Windows.  Andrew has not yet figured out how to bridge LAN ports with his Sonicoribter OS which is based on Linux.  I will also tell you that if you want to go all the way, add Audiophile Optimizer to whatever version of Windows you go with (either Windows 10 or WIndows Server 2012R2).  Imaging improves considerably and the sound signature/digital filter options that it comes with provide you different signatures (from more precision and detail to more warmth and body) depending on what your system needs while remaining completely bit-perfect.
 
As for Paul Hynes' PSUs, he makes several including his entry-level SR3 (made of the best off the shelf parts he knows of) to the SR5 and then to his ultimate SR7.  Both the SR5 and SR7 are custom made to order using his parts that have been designed to his exacting specifications and can have multiple rails where you can directly power your microRendu/sMS-200, your sonicTransporter, router/switch, SSD, USB-SPDIF converter, etc.  Both the SR5 and SR7 will readily outperform the LPS-1.  I have no direct knowledge of how it will perform against Sonore's Signature PSU but that PSU is a one trick pony since it only has one rail and only does 7V.  The SR7 is competitively priced against Sonore's Signature PSU but with considerably more options.  You can reach out to Paul directly via e-mail:  paul@paulhynesdesign.com.  Unless he is away, he is very responsive and extremely helpful at answering questions.  

 

[elviscaprice]

  Yes, the bridging technique will work with this specific sonicTransporter because it runs Windows.  Andrew has not yet figured out how to bridge LAN ports with his Sonicoribter OS which is based on Linux.  I will also tell you that if you want to go all the way, add Audiophile Optimizer to whatever version of Windows you go with (either Windows 10 or WIndows Server 2012R2).  Imaging improves considerably and the sound signature/digital filter options that it comes with provide you different signatures (from more precision and detail to more warmth and body) depending on what your system needs while remaining completely bit-perfect.
 
As for Paul Hynes' PSUs, he makes several including his entry-level SR3 (made of the best off the shelf parts he knows of) to the SR5 and then to his ultimate SR7.  Both the SR5 and SR7 are custom made to order using his parts that have been designed to his exacting specifications and can have multiple rails where you can directly power your microRendu/sMS-200, your sonicTransporter, router/switch, SSD, USB-SPDIF converter, etc.  Both the SR5 and SR7 will readily outperform the LPS-1.  I have no direct knowledge of how it will perform against Sonore's Signature PSU but that PSU is a one trick pony since it only has one rail and only does 7V.  The SR7 is competitively priced against Sonore's Signature PSU but with considerably more options.  You can reach out to Paul directly via e-mail:  paul@paulhynesdesign.com.  Unless he is away, he is very responsive and extremely helpful at answering questions.  

​Romaz, have you tried doing your own optimization to Windows?  I find I can achieve better results technically than AO with the CA scripts and tweaks in the Windows 10 optimization thread.  A few have compared the two methods and found self optimization the better, or in combination.  Some have even found an optimized Windows 10 better than Server 2012R2.
 
Does the Paul Hynes SR7 have any means to prevent stray dirty power from flowing thru its circuitry, galvanic isolation, such as the LPS-1?  When your measure the LPS-1 against the SR7/5 what are you looking at?

 

[romaz]

 
​Romaz, have you tried doing your own optimization to Windows?  I find I can achieve better results technically than AO with the CA scripts and tweaks in the Windows 10 optimization thread.  A few have compared the two methods and found self optimization the better, or in combination.  Some have even found an optimized Windows 10 better than Server 2012R2.
 
Does the Paul Hynes SR7 have any means to prevent stray dirty power from flowing thru its circuitry, galvanic isolation, such as the LPS-1?  When your measure the LPS-1 against the SR7/5 what are you looking at?

No, I haven't.  I read through the Windows 10 thread on CA and found it interesting.  I have similarly heard from others that they prefer this optimization to AO and so I have no doubt it's good and so I may go down that road to compare it eventually but the one thing with AO that I really like are the different sound signatures and filters.  These signatures alone are worth the price of admission for me.
 
Galvanic isolation is always a matter of degree.  The SR7's regulator circuit has very high PSRR (power supply rejection ratio) and is very resistant to line noise to a level of -80dB.  Is this good enough?  I don't know but I have another SR7 coming in but this one will be double regulated (cascading regulators) and will have line rejection to about -150dB.  Paul says that this will reject even the rectification noise (AC to DC conversion) that the PSU itself generates and should be noticeable and so I will do my own comparison.
 
There is so much more to PSU performance than line or ripple noise or even leakage current and yet most PSU makers seem to dwell only on the noise performance of a PSU.  Other equally important factors include output impedance, operating bandwidth, transient response and settling time resulting in not just low noise but also responsiveness and explosive dynamics and very few PSU makers mention these parameters because they don't even measure it.  According to Paul:
 
"For exceptional power supply design, it is important to consider all of these parameters and optimize them to the best of your ability. Neglect one or more of these parameters in the design stage and you will have noticeably lower performance."  
 
The LPS-1 is certainly excellent and better than anything I have heard from HDPlex or Teradak.  What I will say is that I have extensively compared the LPS-1 to the SR7 and the SR7 is noticeably superior, so much so that I have relegated my LPS-1 to lesser duty (it powers my SSD).  For the things that matter the most, I use my SR7.